Steering Head roller bearings better?

[Tom A.]

OK I just read this entire post and I'm blow away. I've got a little over 1,000 miles on my '08 FJR. I had the clunk at my 600 mile service and told the dealer to fix it. He said he looked at the headset and it checked out fine (I assume he re-torqued the headset but I didn't ask). I still have the clunk, nothing changed. I've replaced a headset bearings on 240 pound dirt bikes over the years (most ruined by pressure washers) and they were ALL tapered roller bearing. So now I find out that my 650+ pound FJR has ball bearings in the headset. I'm am not happy! I realize the FJR is not going to see the impacts that a dirt bike takes, but maybe big heavy street bike on a lousey road is roughly equivalent to a 240 pound dirt bike pounding on rocks, roots and downed trees.

 

[dcarver]

Hmm. My 62k 06 regularly sees the front end in the air, I ride it daily, street and on a bad dirt road, at speed. My balls seem just fine...

But I will replace when appropriate; the tapered bearings are cheap enough and won't indent the races like balls can.

 

[Ignacio]

So now I find out that my 650+ pound FJR has ball bearings in the headset. I'm am not happy! I realize the FJR is not going to see the impacts that a dirt bike takes, but maybe big heavy street bike on a lousey road is roughly equivalent to a 240 pound dirt bike pounding on rocks, roots and downed trees.

Don't equate weight with the specific need of a particular bearing. I would imagine the torque force per unit area on dirt bikes is FAR in excess of a street bike at peak loads......unless you're taking the things off jumps or something.

And don't automatically presume your clunk is the head bearings.

You eliminate the other factors?

 

[Tom A.]

Don't equate weight with the specific need of a particular bearing. I would imagine the torque force per unit area on dirt bikes is FAR in excess of a street bike at peak loads......unless you're taking the things off jumps or something.
And don't automatically presume your clunk is the head bearings.

You eliminate the other factors?

Now that I've calmed down I recall that I specifically asked the dealer to re-torque the headset at the 600 mile. He said he did check it and it was fine. The clunk is still there every time the front suspension unloads after coming to a stop. I'll have to evaluate the other potential causes. Maybe the headset IS OK.

I'm still shocked that the FJR doesn't have tapered roller bearings, whereas every dirt bike I have ever owned (including the 125TTR) does. On the other hand, it sounds like most of you think the headset is not the source of the clunk.

 

[Ignacio]

On the other hand, it sounds like most of you think the headset is not the source of the clunk.

And don't go the other way and assume it's not the steering bearings. Try reducing the emotion, diagnose the issue, and resolve the problem.

Once again, have you eliminated the other factors?

 

[Colin24]

But in several strings on front end noise a few members changed to roller bearings in the front steering head and talked about the poor quality of the stock ball bearings that yamaha built the bike with. ....

So my inquiry now is to those that have changed their steering head bearings form the Yamaha stock ball bearings to aftermarket roller bearings. Have their newly installed roller bearings, once properly torqued, fixed their front end shake and or clunking noise issues?

If there is "clunking" then there is a problem somewhere in the front end. It is likely something loose or worn and as you note this may or may not be the steering head bearings.

Regardless of what bearing you are using (ball bearing or taper bearing) there should be NO clunking comeing from the steering head bearings. If there is then the problem is not the type of bearing, but the maintenance and adjustment. So switching to taper bearings to fix a clunk is NOT the way to fix this problem.

If you are concerned about this get a shop manual, the special tool used to adjust the steering head bearings and a torque wrench. Then go and adjust them following the instructions in the manual. This has got NOTHING to do with what type of bearing you are using. If they are clunking then they are either worn or misadjusted. And very likely it was a misadjustment that caused them to wear so badly in the first place.

Now; if you are concerned about premature wear and avoiding a future problem. (Or fixing a damaged bearing) then I can see how you might want to try the tapper bearings. The advantage (AFAIK) to taper bearings is that the larger surface area allows them to deal with heavier loads. The downside (AFAIK) is slightly more drag due to the larger surface area.

It should be noted that extremely hard and frequent impacts to the front end can damage the bearings. Slamming on the brakes is not an impact load. Hitting a large pothole is (or hard landings from frequent wheelies) In this case Taper bearings might give you a bit more life.

But.... FWIW: I am no stunt rider, however the front wheel usually lifts off the ground a couple times a week. And the roads up here are for sh?t due to the winter wear and tear, frost heaves and salt. Point is, I do drive aggresively with enthusiasm and the bike is ridden hard. Yet the OEM bearings are still running fine. With proper maintenance the stock bearings will last and won't clunk.

In years past on other bikes I used to simply adjust the bearings by "feel" since the manuals did not have a clear easy to follow procedure like the FJR manual has. As such I was replacing steering head bearings every 50,000 miles or so (taper or rollor bearings). The instructions in the FJR shop manual are very specific and easy to follow. You can get the perfect torque applied to the bearings every single time. There is no need to develop a "feel" for what the right torque is.

On this bike I have over 60,000 miles on the original stock OEM roller bearings and they are still in grade A shape. Of course I take the time to maintain the bike and dont wait for problems to occur. Once a year (which works out to every 15,000 miles or so for me) I pull the front end completely apart. Clean all the old grease from the races and bearings, inspect, regrease and reassemble.

Even when the stock bearings wear out I intend to replace with OEM bearings again. One of the things that impressed me about the bike when I first got it was how light the steering was compared to my previous rides. I dont want to change anything that would hinder that light-precise feel the bike has.

- Colin

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>... One of the things that impressed me about the bike when I first got it was how light the steering was compared to my previous rides. I dont want to change anything that would hinder that light-precise feel the bike has.

Here...Here! Agreed. Good/fine handling is a rare commodity -- the stock FJR has it. Slowing the steering may/will make the bike more truck-like and less sport-touring-like. I tend to think MamaYama used ball bearings for a reason -- and it wasn't price.... :huh:

 

[HaulinAshe]

Here...Here! Agreed. Good/fine handling is a rare commodity -- the stock FJR has it. Slowing the steering may/will make the bike more truck-like and less sport-touring-like. I tend to think MamaYama used ball bearings for a reason -- and it wasn't price.... :huh:

Now you are thinking!

You can bet that MamiYami engineers could care less about the pennies difference between their costs of ball bearings versus roller. So that begs one to ask the question of why Yamaha would differ from their typical use of roller bearings to place ball bearings in the FJR head. I'm just sayin...

Take your thinking a bit further and don't ASSUME that just because that dealer told you they checked the stearing head torque, that they really did. I've been told that before and the fingernail polish mark I placed on the nut was never disturbed.

 

[SkooterG]

Once a year (which works out to every 15,000 miles or so for me) I pull the front end completely apart. Clean all the old grease from the races and bearings, inspect, regrease and reassemble.

Wow. Must be the advantage/disadvantage of having winters.

147k on my front end and never been apart. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' But I guarantee it's been abused!

And the one time I did re-torque my steering head bearings I did it following the manual and using the proper spanner and torque wrench and they were still too loose when finished. I had to re-do them, and tightened them a bit past spec.

 

[Aasland]

At 43K I replaced the stock bearings on my VFR. The "test" was to suspend the front end of the bike and feel for notchiness when turning the bars. It felt fine. But with the wheel and forks off, there was a definite "notch". After taking it apart and seeing the dimples in the race, I knew it was time to replace them.

Basically, what this boils down to, is that the standard test isn't sufficient. Upward forces drive the bearings into the underside of the race - but the test is performed with the weight pulling the bearings down on the lower race.

For the record, the tapered bearings I installed improved the bike dramatically - at least over the dimpled worn ones. Not sure if it would have made any difference vs. good stock bearings.

Also .. another point of data .. the tapered bearings require much less torque than the ball bearings, so there shouldn't be any more friction due to the larger contact areas.

 

[radman]

I got tired of the clunking all the time, so I removed all the balls but 4 at each end, placed at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, and tightened the nut to 120 pounds. No clunk, no wobble, no nothing. Very solid feeling now.

 

[El Toro]

I got tired of the clunking all the time, so I removed all the balls but 4 at each end, placed at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, and tightened the nut to 120 pounds. No clunk, no wobble, no nothing. Very solid feeling now.

+1.5