Tank Heat Fix

[FJRocket]

You guys are thinking too hard. I hope Mother Nature just lays off and we get back down 10 - 15 degrees. Then the bikes will run mostly at 2 bars no matter what. Then the auxiliary airflow to the rad or through the engine is moot.

In a month or so, here in the cornbelt, I'll be taking all the insulation crap off my bike and wishing for more heat. Won't take out the tank blanket, though. I like that thing staying cool. I'll take out all the fairing insulation, though. Then I'll get all the flow the bike needs. Ahhhhh..... B) Warmed but not roasted.

 

[twowheelnut]

Outside of a few rain drops in the (snicker) winter, tis almost always sunny and 70 here. What heat youz guyz talkin' 'bout? :haha:

 

[Ramblin Man]

Sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I've needed the van the last couple days because of some home depot runs so the bike has sat. Plus it has been cooler but tomorrow it's supposed to be miserable again so I'll test it then.

I did take some pictures and will post them but there isn't much to see. At this point it is simply a crevice tool shoved through the frame.

 

[Ramblin Man]

Here is the "complete" mod ready for installation.

https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ramblin_man_...4&.dnm=cc62.jpg

Going through the frame

https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ramblin_man_...4&.dnm=749a.jpg

Zip tied in place and ready for testing.

https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ramblin_man_...4&.dnm=94ad.jpg

I've got some work on placement, but you get the idea.

 

[twowheelnut]

Damn, Ramblin! That's gonna be one mofo fast Hoover!

 

[TWILKIN650]

Dang, Ramblin Man, it looks like a "marital aid" but maybe that's what we need. Ever thought of using the crevice tool just to open the corridor up for the larger area pleated hose? The end of the crevice tool probably has a smaller cross section than the round end of the pleated hose. How about a corresponding sized tube for an exit? Any place to put one of those?

Hey we want some objective evidence. Electronic thermometer data?? Worth a shot!

 

[nusman68]

Finally did FJRockets heat fix tonight with the 'insulation blanket' I bought a couple of wks ago. To review, I originally applied the self-adhesive Thermo-Tec stuff (very thin) to the bottom of the tank a couple of months ago; looks great, only reduced heat a very small amount; tank would still get unbearably hot (I have to hug it being 'vertically challenged' :lol: )

Went out for a ride this evening after applying the 'blanket' and the tank got warm--period. MAJOR improvement. Obviously I will reassess after another ride in the heat of the day here in 95 degree Houston, but I can tell right now it will still be MUCH cooler. Engine ran NO hotter per the gauge.

Thanks again to FJRocket for the info. :clap:

His install tips are dead-on; all I could add: I did not remove the tank; I had it tilted back w/bungees, secured to the frame under the pillion, removed the wiring harness (unclipped the 2 terminals) under the tank to allow more 'tilt angle'. I cut the material perfectly with 'trauma shears' (what I carry at work) or what they also call 'multi-purpose' shears at the store; a razor knife (even with a new blade) wanted to tear it.

 

[nusman68]

Ramblin, I gotta ask--

Does your bike SUCK now? :haha:

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

Let us know how it works...maybe just post something like "Eureka!"

Damn, there I go again...Bad Brad, Bad Brad....TWN must be channeling himself through me!

 

[FJRocket]

Thanks again to FJRocket for the info. :clap:
His install tips are dead-on;

Well that's a kind statement, thank you, but you're asking for trouble if you follow ALL my advise. Yikes! Have I made a couple wrong decisions in my day!

I always thought that not gluing insulation to the tank might give better results. Also, that blanket insulator is pretty thick. Works well.

Yes, tank removal is not necessary, you can just pivot on the rear bolt. I just found it easier to leave all the lines connected and flop the tank over on it's side. I had a stool next to the bike, and just layed the tank over on it to work under it. Did not disconnect anything other than the tank hold down bolts.

 

[TWILKIN650]

Question for FJRocket. If your device does deliver fresh air to the backside of the radiator, would that slightly increase the pressure behind the radiator and therefore reduce the amount of air that would flow through the radiator? Would a shop vac hose sized exit also then be a good idea to give the increased air supply somewhere to go?

In other words would we see cooler undertank temps, but more bars as the flow through the radiator is reduced?

 

[Bounce]

I have some of the blanket (firewall) insulation left (foil on one side) as documented way back when. If someone is local to the Dallas/Fort Worth area and wants it, I don't need it. You can have it if you'll meet me somewhere to pick it up.

What I'm wondering about the "Hoover Heat Mod" is how he's going to fit these in there.

 

[FJRocket]

Question for FJRocket.

I'm not the guy that's doing the hose thing around the engine. But I can tell you that mechanics do that stuff on and in aircraft often, to direct airflow where needed.

Having said that, I was wondering about the Cromeit heat fix. Thinking along similar lines. If you block the flow on the sides of the radiator, reducing the flow around the radiator, perhaps reducing the venturi (Bernouli?) effect and thereby reducing flow through the radiator?

To answer my own query, I don't think it matters. Long as your indicator sticks to 2 or 3 bars (and perhaps even 4) the vast majority of the time, I don't think you're going to hurt a darn thing. So you might as well be comfortable.

In a nutshell, I'm going to try to make this bike comfortable as simply as I can. I like the tank blanket, but I'm still not crazy about the fairing blockage. It works great, but I think I need a new combo/configuration of insulation in there. No plans to do the Cromeit heat fix, either. Just adjust the airflow from behind the aft edge of the fairing and I'm done. Like I've said, I'll be ready to let the heat back out here pretty soon anyway. NOT THIS WEEK, THOUGH! MAN IS IT HOT! (Glad I work in airconditioned comfort).

 

[Ramblin Man]

Well, first off, the shop vac hose directs air to behind the head, not the radiator, so there would be no back pressure increase there.

As everyone else has reported, my tank also got merely warm. The frame was still very hot, but the tank was fine.

However, the bike came up to three bars much quicker than usual and stayed there even at 70 MPH speeds with no traffic in front. It only got up to 4 bars once though and came right back down once the fan came on.

As usual, I did too many things at the same time to know what is responsible for what. I am assuming that flow through the radiator is reduced due to back pressure with the addition of the heat blanket. I say this because not only was the heat to the tank reduced, but also the heat that I normally feel comming from the bike at speed. I can usually tell when the thermostat opens and closes because I will feel the heat increase and then reduce and continue to cycle during the ride. I'm assuming that's the thermostat opening and closing.

Exit paths have been brought up a few times and while I didn't really see a good place to put one, I think I'll look harder.

I also want opinions on adding a little flap at the bottom back edge of the faring right in front of the header pipes. Something pointing down to hopefully create low pressure and pull the air out the bottom.

Sombody makes those little air deflectors that no-one seems to actually like, but I think they should be put on the trailing edge of the front gill slit to do any good. I haven't tried them so I cant say. but that is where I'm heading with the underside flap. Just like flaps on an airplane

 

[brazos parker]

Google "Baker Air Wing."

 

[Ramblin Man]

Had an interesting ride home. Once the bike wamed up I could feel the heat pouring off the bike...get this...on the BACK of my thighs. The heat from under the tank was pouring out from the bottom of the black plastic tank side panels and the bottom edge of the seat, which by the way, I had already identified as the primary escape route for the hot air.

Anyway, I have about 6 feet of washer drain hose that I'm going to try and use but I don't know what good it will do. When I got home I raised the tank and man it was hot under there. So hot I'm afraid to remove the tank blanket, but getting the heat out of there is definatley a lot tuffer now with the blaket in place.

 

[FJRocket]

I ran my tank blanket to extend under those black tank/seat side panels. Really helps keep the thighs cools (that just didn't sound...right).

 

[brazos parker]

@Ramblin Man

As I suspected, after installing a "tank blanket", the heat that would have gone into heating the tank is staying/going somewhere else. And, I also suspect that after "some time" the tank will equilibrate, temperature-wise, as the tank insulation only "slows down" heat to the tank. I would have guessed that tank insulation would have INCREASED heat out the left side...if not into the tank, then somewhere. I'm not an engineer but this seems to be common sense to me. Pls help me out if I'm wrong.

IMHO, you're on the right track to find a way to get ambient air to remove the heat produced by a 145hp engine.

Keep us up to date w/ your experiments.

Be safe out there.

 

[Ramblin Man]

well I pulled the tank blanket and replaced it with a strip about six to eight wide running between the two rubber tank to frame plugs. This covers the exposed portion of the head and efi and is about 95% as effective as the whole under tank blanket. This also allows for better flow under the tank, which may or may not be a good thing, but for now I think it's important.

I put my "flap" on the underside of the fairing, and while I can't say deffinatively that it actually had any effect, it seemed that the bike took a little longer to get up to three bars and there didn't seem to be as much heat on me. The back of the thigh heat was gone, which was probably due to the removal of the tank blanket, but it did seem that what heat I did feel was now lower like it was being pulled out the bottom. Of course thats what I expected so I may have just imagined it.

Ive got a used furnace blower that really puts out some air that I use when I do a TBS. I'll rig up an impromtu wind tunnel and see if I can tell any difference. I guess tieing some streamers at different locations to see how the air moves will work ad well as anything else.

So when do we get paid for all the R&D work we're doing? :headbonk:

 

[FJRocket]

BP, good answer! Bet that big can was a heck of a heat sink, which now isn't getting used. So the heat has to go somewhere.

Guess it's going to be a trade off no matter what. Unless the RM R&D department finds us a new solution.

Standing by.

 

[TWILKIN650]

Ramblin Man, what's the update on the air injector hose mod? Any improvement?