Test drove k1200gt

[Zorlac]

"It is apples to apples if you are going to take the extra money saved on the FJR and see if you can "Farkle it out hard" to do the loaded BMW stuff. Then they are equal in the end with money left over."

Your, or someone else's, time to install the farkles is worth something.

How long does it take to install the ESA on an FJR?

 

[JPhillips]

I wasn't trying to stir the pot, I was just comparing the two bikes I was able to test. I was also just comparing the prices of the bikes they had in stock and not cherry picking. But I can agree if you were able to find a k1200gt with only ABS the price would be more in line with 5k more than the FJR.

Bottom line both are great bikes and I would be extremely happy with either bike.

 

[burnergold2B]

"Your, or someone else's, time to install the farkles is worth something.How long does it take to install the ESA on an FJR?

Bingo, again!

Funny you should ask, but let's go to a really simple aspect of maintenance; gear lube change in the rear end. The new Ks and R12s were designed to have a lifetime fluid fill in the rear ends, and engineers designed those rear ends w/o a drain. Yup, there is no drain plug. Now, they've found out they screwed up the BMWs rear end and the fluid NEEDS to be changed every 12K, while the major services are being done. Meanwhile, I might have to check the FJR valves every 26K, and from what I've heard, it is merely a check, and I have done those on other I-4s and buttoned the bike back up in less than 3 hours. 3 hours is less time than the round trip would be to the nearest good BMW certified wrench from where I live.

Back to the suspension. The new hossack style front-end leaves the rider feeling unattached to the road. It is vague. There is no feedback in corners. My suspension is not electrically adjusted on my FJR, I use a 17mm wrench to adjust the preload and turn the clickers by hand. It took a while to learn what adjustments do what, but once I opened the manual and figured it out, WOW!! It has feedback and I can enjoy the whole ride experience. I pull the forks and shock off the bike and send them to a local suspension guy where he changes the oil and checks the internals for wear for the next 20K, and he does it for $200. I don't think you can pull the suspension off a GT and have it tuned to your liking, can you? I've spent time on the Midwest tracks racing with the BMW guys. Even they hate the way the Ks handle and are having some one offs built, for competition, with traditional forks.

I understand this is ..." just BSing." as somebody put it. It's good fun. However, using fuzzy math and leaving out too many aspects of a real world comparo seems to be the norm for fans of the blue and white propellor. Having to remove the entire rear end to change the rear end fluid? No offense Phillips. They are both great bikes. One just has an enormous advantage with my wallet, in many different ways.

 

[markjenn]

However, using fuzzy math and leaving out too many aspects of a real world comparo seems to be the norm for fans of the blue and white propellor.

FJR folks do exactly the same thing, including the OP who quoted a price difference that was not represenative of the actual difference in prices between comparable models of the bike. And your post includes some sweeping heresay BMW-bashing which is not confirmed by most owners and magazine comparisons.

I don't mind folks arguing their bike is better, but arguing that the "other side" isn't objective is truly the pot calling the kettle black.

And I wasn't trying to get into a full-blown FJR vs. BMW comparo. In fairness, I just wanted to correct a misrepresentation when the OP said that a BMW K1200GT costs "$9K" more than a FJR. This may be the asking price of the bike he road vs. a discounted price then he paid for his FJR but is not representative of the actual cost difference between the two bikes in general. A base GT is the most comparable model to a FJR in equipment, is available in most markets (or can be ordered), and costs $5276 more, MSRP vs. MSRP. This isn't opinion, it's fact. This may even overstate the difference slightly as the BMW includes a bult-in destination charge, whereas most Yamaha dealers charge a setup/freight fee, although it is typically negotiated away.

Everybody is entitled to think their wife is the best-looking and their dog is the smartest, but let's keep it reasonably fair.

- Mark

 

[burnergold2B]

A base GT is the most comparable model to a FJR, is available in most markets (or can be ordered), and costs $5276 more, MSRP vs. MSRP. This isn't opinion, it's fact.
- Mark

Alright, $5300 difference. Now do a comparo. of maintenance costs over the first 100K miles. The dollar differentiation gap moves even closer to a $10K difference, unless the owner is a certified BMW tech..

The money saved just in maintenance ALONE can have an FJR fully loaded with heated grips/seat, cruise control, and a slipper clutch, etc., in the first 50K miles, and still be WAY ahead in the wallet.

It's a no brainer unless you're rich, and even the rich don't throw money away like that. It's how they got rich!

BTW-%0 finance marketing doesn't change the MSRP. Maintenance costs count as part of the "cost" of a machine. Those are facts. If you guys from MOA are trying to convert FJR owners to K bikes you'll have to come up with some better facts. :assassin:

 

[Zorlac]

My truck pumpkins don't have drains, and the 90w oil needs to vacuumed out, no biggie, but yes a drain plug makes more sense.

I've been told that the BMW ESA can smooth out the the bumps of repeating expansion strips on a road with the flip of a switch, now if it's reliable, I'd say that's pretty cool!

Why Yammy doesn't offer cruise on this fine ST is ponderous to me.

I don't own a BMW, and I do like my FJR, it's all good.

 

[Murph]

I don't understand slamming the FJR because it doesn't have a 6-speed. Aside from having a 6-speed just so we can say that "the FJR has a 6-speed," I don't see why it is necessary to mate the FJR engine to a 6-speed. The engine is not screaming for another gear at speeds slightly above the suggested highway cruising speeds ...so why exactly is it a negative that the FJR does not have a 6-speed?

 

[Valueman]

When I bought my FJR I was (and still am) a BMW owner. I have the R1150R - naked boxer.

I rode the K12 and the R12. I also rode the ST1300. In the end it came down to the K12 or the FJR. Price was a factor. Service cost was also a factor, because I am not a mechanic. (BMW=Bring More Wallet) They are both great bikes, but for the money the FJR is, IMO, a much better deal.

I would like cruise control for those long slab ride across Kansas, etc., but I can install one fairly inexpensively. I am not a big fan of the the ESA. I am really not a fan of the cost to replace the shock when it wears out!!

I ride my FJR to club meetings a lot, and people often ask, "You like that FJR?" I respond, "No. I LOVE it."

VM

Vice President

BMW Motorcycle Club of Nashville

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

My uncle has a new k1200gt...and I must say it does have its appeal. I can almost hang speed wise, but him having a 6spd does make a difference.

Interesting, I thought until the big Kaw 14 came out the FJR was king of the jungle for sport tourers.

So, your uncle is a better drag racer than you?

 

[markjenn]

A base GT is the most comparable model to a FJR, is available in most markets (or can be ordered), and costs $5276 more, MSRP vs. MSRP. This isn't opinion, it's fact.
- Mark

Alright, $5300 difference. Now do a comparo. of maintenance costs over the first 100K miles. The dollar differentiation gap moves even closer to a $10K difference, unless the owner is a certified BMW tech..

I agree that BMWs in general cost more to maintain than a FJR.

If you look at the same services performed at a BMW dealership vs. a Yamaha dealership, you'll see about a 30% difference. Beyond this, there is the reliability of the two makes and here again, I think the BMW is likely to have a few more problems, although both are generally reliable. And the BMW comes with a longer standard warranty and generally has more money for "goodwill" repairs than Yamaha.

Put it all together, and you might be able to argue that a BMW will likely cost you perhaps 50% more in maintenance and repairs. So if in 100K miles, you'd spend $2K for the Yamaha, you might spend another grand on the BMW. But it's not 2x or 4x like some think it is.

I own a FJR and it's a great bike. But I also own a BMW and like it a great deal too. I'd advise people to factor in about a 40% greater cost for the BMW in all aspects of ownership - initial cost, repairs, accessories, etc. This is significant and if you're a value-conscious rider, the FJR rules. But just like an Accord may be a better value than a 328i, it doesn't make the Accord the best car for everyone.

- Mark

 

[automag928]

I don't understand slamming the FJR because it doesn't have a 6-speed. Aside from having a 6-speed just so we can say that "the FJR has a 6-speed," I don't see why it is necessary to mate the FJR engine to a 6-speed. The engine is not screaming for another gear at speeds slightly above the suggested highway cruising speeds ...so why exactly is it a negative that the FJR does not have a 6-speed?

My post was strictly stating that the combination of factors: 6spd gearing, the few extra ponies, and few less lbs. equal a TAD faster machine...That is ALL. No where did I say the FJR sucks without a 6spd...."but him having a 6spd does make a difference" you can tell especially in 2nd and 3rd gears, he has the advantage in gearing and power...

So, your uncle is a better drag racer than you?

Nooooo, but him having a few less lbs than me doesnt hurt! :lol: Honestly the few times we ran it was real close, he never just dissapeared, but he did slowly pull....thats all...Its a nice bike, but that doesn't change the fact I still love my feejer! :yahoo:

 

[automag928]

Oh - I will mention that the BMW trunk (while very expensive compared to my second hand Givi V46) had a top speed listed on it of 100mph I believe, versus 80mph or so on the Givi! :lol:

 

[c5logan]

From a loyal BMW owner and recent FJR owner:

BMW=Big Money Wasted

When I bought my FJR I was (and still am) a BMW owner. I have the R1150R - naked boxer.
I rode the K12 and the R12. I also rode the ST1300. In the end it came down to the K12 or the FJR. Price was a factor. Service cost was also a factor, because I am not a mechanic. (BMW=Bring More Wallet) They are both great bikes, but for the money the FJR is, IMO, a much better deal.

I would like cruise control for those long slab ride across Kansas, etc., but I can install one fairly inexpensively. I am not a big fan of the the ESA. I am really not a fan of the cost to replace the shock when it wears out!!

I ride my FJR to club meetings a lot, and people often ask, "You like that FJR?" I respond, "No. I LOVE it."

VM

Vice President

BMW Motorcycle Club of Nashville

 

[boogahboogah]

The British version:

Bugger My Wallet

My Givi spent some time at FJR maximum, does that mean it's going to fall off now ? No, the speed rating is just more lawyerese so they can claim an out if there's a problem.

 

[Lake Powell]

I don't understand slamming the FJR because it doesn't have a 6-speed. Aside from having a 6-speed just so we can say that "the FJR has a 6-speed," I don't see why it is necessary to mate the FJR engine to a 6-speed. The engine is not screaming for another gear at speeds slightly above the suggested highway cruising speeds ...so why exactly is it a negative that the FJR does not have a 6-speed?

Exactly, good point. I had a K1200rs and in 6th gear a high way speeds it was too low! Everytime I wanted to jump through in traffic I had to down shift pain in the ass, and the cruise control in 6th would go up the canyon to Park City either, again forced to down shift.

 

[Lake Powell]

Oh - I will mention that the BMW trunk (while very expensive compared to my second hand Givi V46) had a top speed listed on it of 100mph I believe, versus 80mph or so on the Givi! :lol:

My K1200rs side bags did have a 80 mph limit on them by the manufactor and the bike would weave a little with them on, also the muffler side bag was greatly reduced in volume.

On the bright side they only raised the out the door cost on the bike by $1800.00!

 

[markjenn]

On the bright side they only raised the out the door cost on the bike by $1800.00!

$1800 for K1200RS system cases? I doubt it. They're basically the same as GS or S cases and they run about $400 per side - I've bought several sets.

As to your weaving comment, I can't say on your bike, but I've run both K1200RS and R1100S bikes on the German autobahn for hours at a stretch at top speed (145 for the K and 135 for the R) and they handled fine. I've never heard of a 80 mph limit "on them by the mfg".

I absolutely agree about the reduced volume on the left bag for the muffler - ridiculous.

- Mark

 

[automag928]

My Givi spent some time at FJR maximum, does that mean it's going to fall off now ? No, the speed rating is just more lawyerese so they can claim an out if there's a problem.

I was just being sarcastic... :lol: My givi has defintely seen maximum and then some! :yahoo:

 

[burnergold2B]

Put it all together, and you might be able to argue that a BMW will likely cost you perhaps 50% more in maintenance and repairs. So if in 100K miles, you'd spend $2K for the Yamaha, you might spend another grand on the BMW. But it's not 2x or 4x like some think it is.

Nope, nope, and nope. Bingo!!

Consider the BMW is recommended to be adjusted every 6K miles, and a major service at 12K miles, with the service cost of a BMW shop being $200-$800 depending on which shop? While the K has gone for it's 4th service the FJR hasn't had to have a valve CHECK yet until 26K miles which I can easily do myself. Just oil changes which any goober can do himself, eh. I would venture to say the maintenance costs are somewher in the 5-10X category, as of lately, since the advent of the oilheads. Then there's travel time, drop it off, time w/o your bike, and go pick it up; the new BMW way.

You're trying to say just $3k for 100k miles for maintenance on a KGT? Where's your dealership?

 

[Lake Powell]

On the bright side they only raised the out the door cost on the bike by $1800.00!

$1800 for K1200RS system cases? I doubt it. They're basically the same as GS or S cases and they run about $400 per side - I've bought several sets.

As to your weaving comment, I can't say on your bike, but I've run both K1200RS and R1100S bikes on the German autobahn for hours at a stretch at top speed (145 for the K and 135 for the R) and they handled fine. I've never heard of a 80 mph limit "on them by the mfg".

I absolutely agree about the reduced volume on the left bag for the muffler - ridiculous.

- Mark

It was pretty close to that, with the cases the color matched lids the mounting system and the locks plus installation. And maybe it was the dealer raping me for extras, but if I recall it was close to that amount.

I liked the BMW, I love my FJR, the local BMW dealer is the absolute worse, and the elevated cost level make my FJR a great decision. IMO