El Toro
Innocent Bystander
My wife wanted to ride the FJR, but she quickly decided she feels a LOT more secure on the Rocket III Touring. If I'd had a Vision, I think she would have liked that too.
Victory Is No More
- Thread starter jmdaniel
- Start date
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garyahouse
newbs need the forum
Somebody's bored...
I read about all this elsewhere, had no idea our forum took the plunge. You can tell it's the dead middle of winter. Somebody's got too much time on their hands.
Another opinion...
My thoughts? I was happy to see the Victorys around because it gave me something to laugh at. Entertainment value, you see. I was also happy to see them because they're made in America. That matters.
The rest of the story
I miss old Bill Harvey. For those of you too young to remember, his "The Rest of the Story" broadcasts were the highlight of my lunch period for years when I was a twenty something. My soul, were we ever that young? Seems like forever. But I digress. Here's the rest of the Victory story: one day, Kevin Costner was out walking in the cornfields, and he heard a voice calling to him from somewhere between the corn rows..
Remember the words he heard???
"If you build it, they will come."
We know the rest of THAT story. He heard the call, built an amazing ball field in the middle of corn town, and a great movie was born. But here's the rest of the story. I'm thinking that somewhere nearby, there was a Polaris big wig out road testing their latest four wheeler. As he paused for a little break, little did he know that he'd happened upon Kevin's corn field. Seems like he accidentally heard the same voice... but his vision wasn't a ball field. He was dreaming about a new line of motorcycles. And why not name one of them the Vision in honor of his experience in the corn field? However...
Nobody showed up
Unfortunately, the mothership discovered that Victory was NOT Kevin Costner's "Field of Dreams." Unlike Costner, though Polaris heard the call from the corn fields, they indeed built it, but nobody showed up. We can argue all day about how beautiful or ugly the ball field was, but if nobody comes to play, Polaris ain't gonna continue to mow the lawn. They decided to remove the bleachers and plant some of that Indian corn. It outsold Victory 3 or 4 to 1, and at the end of the day, that's all the big P cares about. They are after all a business.
Now that it's all said and done, the BOTTOM LINE was in fact THE END OF THE LINE for Victory.
Gary
darksider #44
I read about all this elsewhere, had no idea our forum took the plunge. You can tell it's the dead middle of winter. Somebody's got too much time on their hands.
Another opinion...
My thoughts? I was happy to see the Victorys around because it gave me something to laugh at. Entertainment value, you see. I was also happy to see them because they're made in America. That matters.
The rest of the story
I miss old Bill Harvey. For those of you too young to remember, his "The Rest of the Story" broadcasts were the highlight of my lunch period for years when I was a twenty something. My soul, were we ever that young? Seems like forever. But I digress. Here's the rest of the Victory story: one day, Kevin Costner was out walking in the cornfields, and he heard a voice calling to him from somewhere between the corn rows..
Remember the words he heard???
"If you build it, they will come."
We know the rest of THAT story. He heard the call, built an amazing ball field in the middle of corn town, and a great movie was born. But here's the rest of the story. I'm thinking that somewhere nearby, there was a Polaris big wig out road testing their latest four wheeler. As he paused for a little break, little did he know that he'd happened upon Kevin's corn field. Seems like he accidentally heard the same voice... but his vision wasn't a ball field. He was dreaming about a new line of motorcycles. And why not name one of them the Vision in honor of his experience in the corn field? However...
Nobody showed up
Unfortunately, the mothership discovered that Victory was NOT Kevin Costner's "Field of Dreams." Unlike Costner, though Polaris heard the call from the corn fields, they indeed built it, but nobody showed up. We can argue all day about how beautiful or ugly the ball field was, but if nobody comes to play, Polaris ain't gonna continue to mow the lawn. They decided to remove the bleachers and plant some of that Indian corn. It outsold Victory 3 or 4 to 1, and at the end of the day, that's all the big P cares about. They are after all a business.
Now that it's all said and done, the BOTTOM LINE was in fact THE END OF THE LINE for Victory.
Gary
darksider #44
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jmdaniel
Has A Well Known Member
You're exactly right, Gary. Everyone can spin the Victory all they want, but bottom line, that turd isn't selling. From last month's 4Q and 2016 Annual Report, with highlighting for the financially impaired:
*** Motorcycle segment sales, including its PG&A related sales, decreased 35 percent in the 2016 fourth quarter to $105.7 million. Both Indian and Victory reported lower sales in the fourth quarter due to difficult comparables as product availability for all brands improved significantly in the 2015 fourth quarter, and as the Company reduced motorcycle production in the 2016 fourth quarter to complete the final paint system upgrade in Spirit Lake, IA. Slingshot® sales were down due to low product availability related to recall activity. Gross profit for the fourth quarter 2016 decreased 94 percent to $1.6 million compared to $24.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2015 due to lower production rates and higher warranty expense.
North American consumer retail demand for the Polaris motorcycle segment, including Victory®, Indian Motorcycle® and Slingshot®, was down mid-single digits percent during the 2016 fourth quarter while the overall motorcycle industry retail sales, 900cc and above, declined low-single digits percent in the 2016 fourth quarter. Indian Motorcycles retail sales increased about 20 percent while Victory retail sales were down mid-single digits percent during the quarter. Slingshot retail sales were down significantly due to tough comparable in the fourth quarter last year as the Company experienced unseasonably strong retail sales in the initial year of Slingshot product availability in 2015.***
Financial statements/press releases are some of the finest examples of wordsmithing you will find, and this one is no exception. Boil it down to Polaris' motorcycle division sucked wind in 2016, by itself and compared to 2015, Slingshots are rolling warranty claims, Victory is a dead horse, and Indian was their only light in the tunnel, albeit a 40 watt. With dust on it.
IMO, they did half of what they needed to do, the other half is to kill off Slingshots. Clean up the portfolio, and make money.
*** Motorcycle segment sales, including its PG&A related sales, decreased 35 percent in the 2016 fourth quarter to $105.7 million. Both Indian and Victory reported lower sales in the fourth quarter due to difficult comparables as product availability for all brands improved significantly in the 2015 fourth quarter, and as the Company reduced motorcycle production in the 2016 fourth quarter to complete the final paint system upgrade in Spirit Lake, IA. Slingshot® sales were down due to low product availability related to recall activity. Gross profit for the fourth quarter 2016 decreased 94 percent to $1.6 million compared to $24.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2015 due to lower production rates and higher warranty expense.
North American consumer retail demand for the Polaris motorcycle segment, including Victory®, Indian Motorcycle® and Slingshot®, was down mid-single digits percent during the 2016 fourth quarter while the overall motorcycle industry retail sales, 900cc and above, declined low-single digits percent in the 2016 fourth quarter. Indian Motorcycles retail sales increased about 20 percent while Victory retail sales were down mid-single digits percent during the quarter. Slingshot retail sales were down significantly due to tough comparable in the fourth quarter last year as the Company experienced unseasonably strong retail sales in the initial year of Slingshot product availability in 2015.***
Financial statements/press releases are some of the finest examples of wordsmithing you will find, and this one is no exception. Boil it down to Polaris' motorcycle division sucked wind in 2016, by itself and compared to 2015, Slingshots are rolling warranty claims, Victory is a dead horse, and Indian was their only light in the tunnel, albeit a 40 watt. With dust on it.
IMO, they did half of what they needed to do, the other half is to kill off Slingshots. Clean up the portfolio, and make money.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
It was Paul Harvey, not Bill Harvey.
You need to sign up for that George (sic) Carnegie course on winning friends and influencing people. George'll teach you how to remember names.
You need to sign up for that George (sic) Carnegie course on winning friends and influencing people. George'll teach you how to remember names.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
ET, Gary is getting older. His memory ain't what it used to be. Cut him some slack. 
BkerChuck
Second hand vegetarian
Never rode any Victory bikes because cruisers just never did anything for me. Being a Buell owner I liked see an American company other than HD out in the market place and had hoped that maybe they'd come out with something other than a cruiser. My neighbor has one of the new Indian Scouts and loves it. She's a relatively new rider and not very tall so the low seat height and reasonable weight are huge selling points for her. I kind of like the bike but again the style just doesn't excite me. I'd love to see one with dual discs up front, maybe a 2 into 1 exhaust, smaller fenders, and a better seat.
HRZ, the reason your wife liked the VTX and Victory has to do with the V-twins. Just one big vibrator.
HRZ, the reason your wife liked the VTX and Victory has to do with the V-twins. Just one big vibrator.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="HotRodZilla" data-cid="1354466" data-time="1485965263"><p>
ET, Gary is getting older. His memory ain't what it used to be. Cut him some slack. </p></blockquote>
I guess you had to remember the Dale Carnegie courses to notice the slack. As Stevie Nicks notes, "I'm gettin' older too."
ET, Gary is getting older. His memory ain't what it used to be. Cut him some slack.
</p></blockquote>I guess you had to remember the Dale Carnegie courses to notice the slack. As Stevie Nicks notes, "I'm gettin' older too."
garyahouse
newbs need the forum
Ah... Paul Harvey. I was thinking at first that the name I thought I was recalling... sounded a little off, but forgot to double check. So in the end, I forgot to make sure I didn't forget. Ha !!! Anyway, I'll leave the post as is... just as a testament to my failing memory. But I do remember that it was refreshing to listen to a man who had so very much to say each day. And that it was actually worth listening to: something we don't find much of any more. We need more Paul Harveys in this world. I for one miss the guy. By the way, that wasn't really his name. It was actually Paul Aurandt, if anybody cares.
Oh... thanks for the slack request, Z. I turned 61 this year. Guilty as charged. Time flies as they say.
And don't be too hard on Chuck above for his wife crack. I had him chasing around the shop looking for O Rings all week. I think he accidentally got a couple around his neck in the process. But then again if too many O Rings aren't squeezing off the blood flow, maybe you could just use your hands...
Gary
darksider #44
Oh... thanks for the slack request, Z. I turned 61 this year. Guilty as charged. Time flies as they say.
And don't be too hard on Chuck above for his wife crack. I had him chasing around the shop looking for O Rings all week. I think he accidentally got a couple around his neck in the process. But then again if too many O Rings aren't squeezing off the blood flow, maybe you could just use your hands...
Gary
darksider #44
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Victory's sales numbers declined because the mothership stopped investing in the brand after the Indian acquisition in 2011. Even the last few “new” bikes were based on existing platforms and power plants. Basically, from 2011 on Victory didn’t come out with anything new. I don’t count the rebadged Indian scout. Even the engine and transmission saw just incremental improvements from its introduction in 2003. Victory touring bikes were left in the dust from an electronics standpoint. While the Indian Chief whatever got all the latest and greatest in electronic and audio crap, the vision and cross country got squat. Meanwhile the disenfranchised HD owners who never really like Victory Styling flocked to Indian. Those of us who put 20K miles a year on our Victory motorcycles keep filling out company surveys, of what we wanted. I longed for the day for an updated Vision. The Vision was hands down the best motorcycles I have ever owned, comfort, handling, style, it had it all. But it needed updating, the luggage was small, as engineering used up a lot of that space for structure. The electronics were ancient. Even after upgrading the audio system, I still eventually stopped using the onboard audio for a Sena SMH10.
Now in 2017, the 14 year old engine would struggle to meet current emission standards, the whole lineup needed updates in electronics, so instead of developing a new engine, costing 10s of millions of R&D dollars, in the face of declining sales Polaris shut the brand down. I don’t blame them, but I don’t have to like it.
When Polaris first bought Indian, they were going to make it a boutique brand, not intending to be priced within reach of a typical victory bike. Polaris leadership obviously saw more potential in the brand. I remember sitting in the 2013 National rally in Lewiston Idaho. A victory big wig was there giving a speech on how much Polaris appreciates Victory riders, “We’re in it for the long haul.” I guess as long as you like Indian Motorcycles.
As a former victory owner, I have owned 3, they are damn nice bikes, especially the ones with aluminum back bones. Having spent a good amount of time on goldwings and visions, I would take the Vision any day.
Now in 2017, the 14 year old engine would struggle to meet current emission standards, the whole lineup needed updates in electronics, so instead of developing a new engine, costing 10s of millions of R&D dollars, in the face of declining sales Polaris shut the brand down. I don’t blame them, but I don’t have to like it.
When Polaris first bought Indian, they were going to make it a boutique brand, not intending to be priced within reach of a typical victory bike. Polaris leadership obviously saw more potential in the brand. I remember sitting in the 2013 National rally in Lewiston Idaho. A victory big wig was there giving a speech on how much Polaris appreciates Victory riders, “We’re in it for the long haul.” I guess as long as you like Indian Motorcycles.
As a former victory owner, I have owned 3, they are damn nice bikes, especially the ones with aluminum back bones. Having spent a good amount of time on goldwings and visions, I would take the Vision any day.
sks700
Well-known member
I have had 4 Victory's (I still have my '99). I liked the '99, hated the '05 Touring Cruiser. I hated the look of the Vision when it came out. When they came out with the 8 Ball version, all blacked out and stripped down, I decided to ride it. I fell in love instantly! I had an '05 FJR a few years prior and liked that bike very much. The Vision felt A LOT like the FJR. The handling was so much closer to the FJR than any cruiser I have ever ridden.
I traded the '10 Vision in for a '13 after 2 years and close to 60,000 miles. I had to sell the '13 for financial reasons last summer and picked up an '03 FJR to get me through a lean spot. I just traded that FJR for a '16, but I was considering another Vision. The smokin' deal on the FJR was just to much to pass up.
I guess I'm one of those guys that just likes bikes and can appreciate many different styles. Yes, everyone has their own opinion, but you really don't need to be an ******* about it.
I traded the '10 Vision in for a '13 after 2 years and close to 60,000 miles. I had to sell the '13 for financial reasons last summer and picked up an '03 FJR to get me through a lean spot. I just traded that FJR for a '16, but I was considering another Vision. The smokin' deal on the FJR was just to much to pass up.
I guess I'm one of those guys that just likes bikes and can appreciate many different styles. Yes, everyone has their own opinion, but you really don't need to be an ******* about it.
sks700
Well-known member
exskibum
~<>~<>~<>~<>~
I would love to see more photos (esp. from the front and rear) of that 8-Ball Vision, sks. Were I into cruisers (after a stretch that ended in ~1973), it would probably have been a Victory I'd have looked into (having known a couple Victory owners). Something about the Vision promised to be the antithesis of HDs continued homage to 1940s farm equipment, but . . . I just could not get past the Vision's frontal likeness to Bozo the Clown.
I confess to having never heard of the 8-Ball version or even considering that an all black Vision was a possibility. But the photo you posted made me go "huh!!!" So, if you have some more, I'm hoping you'll post a couple or three.
I confess to having never heard of the 8-Ball version or even considering that an all black Vision was a possibility. But the photo you posted made me go "huh!!!" So, if you have some more, I'm hoping you'll post a couple or three.
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sks700
Well-known member
This one isn't the 8 Ball. This is the 2013 Touring. The red on it is snakeskin pattern hydrographics that I had done. The 8 ball doesn't have a trunk. I'll find a pic tomorrow.
GalaxyBlue
Well-known member
Still love my '12 Cross Country Tour. Miss my FJR though.
