VW Money Pit
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tmc
Ginger-Mex Extraordinaire
I don't need to re-read the original post. I HAVE VW's and HAVE HAD them for the last decade, and we've had ZERO issues. The same goes for the 8 others around the friends & family.,, did you read the orginal post ? after 30 years sounds pretty much the same to me..
Old saying,, fool me once, shame on you ,,, fool me twice shame on me ..
I had GM products 30 some years ago also... had good luck with them ... Still do.
ps. and A pretty Penny is probably what one is worth...
wheatonFJR
...
So I guess you like them maybe.
I'd like a car I could rip around on like the VWs...however my friends' experiences point me away from that.
It looks like it is a love/hate car. You either love them with no problems...or you hate them because you wanted to love them and all the issues frustrated you and your wallet.
This seems to point to QC issues at the plant.
Both of my friends' experiences were with brand new out of the box vehicles.
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bummer.
as for mpg... feh! says eye! the trade off in the driving experience is well worth a little investment!
i've driven 6's 3's and their Speed variants. All are fun[1] so congrats![1] some are just more funnerer!
Cars or bikes, truely YMMV.
Former sister in law had a Chevy Citation. For a time, the most recalled GM car. She sold it with over 300k miles on it because it got too rusty. Common problem where I live. I have a 99 Chrysler 300M with 200k miles that still runs like a top. Inspite of people using them as a measure of the bottom, I currently have 2 KIA's, a 2006 minivan and a '07 Amanti. Each only has about 70k on them but have been great.
In all my years I have heard bad and good stories from every make. OK, Yugo's excluded. But VW's did garner a poor rating in Consumer Reports for a while.
Drive what you like, or what you can afford. Take care of it and hope for the best! They all suck.
Boy, it really is friday...
mr.paul
Former sister in law had a Chevy Citation. For a time, the most recalled GM car. She sold it with over 300k miles on it because it got too rusty. Common problem where I live. I have a 99 Chrysler 300M with 200k miles that still runs like a top. Inspite of people using them as a measure of the bottom, I currently have 2 KIA's, a 2006 minivan and a '07 Amanti. Each only has about 70k on them but have been great.
In all my years I have heard bad and good stories from every make. OK, Yugo's excluded. But VW's did garner a poor rating in Consumer Reports for a while.
Drive what you like, or what you can afford. Take care of it and hope for the best! They all suck.
Boy, it really is friday...
mr.paul
tmc
Ginger-Mex Extraordinaire
When one speaks about "German Engineering", usually applied in a positive context, I tend to think of BMW, Mercedes & Audi. VW doesn't have the same reputation for "engineering" as those others. It was designed, after all, as the "peoples car", meaning it was made to be affordable.
I've owned a number of BMW cars in the past. The engineering is there, but not in the way that many "users" expect it to be. Yeah, the ride and handling are superb, as are the engines' performance. Which is what hooks many in. But they are far from maintenance free. If you own one, you absolutely have to religiously follow the maintenance schedules to expect to get any kind of longevity. Stuff does wear out. It is designed to.
More recently, as a marketing gimmick, they have extended out the required maintenance intervals, and in the US BMW will actually pay for all preventive maintenance (as well as warranty repairs) for the first 4 years or 50k miles. One place that you can really appreciate German Engineering" is if you do your own work on an older one. It is very easy to work on them, IMO. They actually designed the cars with a little serviceability in mind. At least the ones that I owned form the 80's and 90's did. Can't speak to the latest models.
Interestingly, BMW is not considered a "luxury" car in Europe, where most of the cars sold are strippers without all the bells and whistles that US buyers demand. I'm sure that the strippers are more reliable than the US ones because of all the electronic/electrical accessory crap.
I've owned a number of BMW cars in the past. The engineering is there, but not in the way that many "users" expect it to be. Yeah, the ride and handling are superb, as are the engines' performance. Which is what hooks many in. But they are far from maintenance free. If you own one, you absolutely have to religiously follow the maintenance schedules to expect to get any kind of longevity. Stuff does wear out. It is designed to.
More recently, as a marketing gimmick, they have extended out the required maintenance intervals, and in the US BMW will actually pay for all preventive maintenance (as well as warranty repairs) for the first 4 years or 50k miles. One place that you can really appreciate German Engineering" is if you do your own work on an older one. It is very easy to work on them, IMO. They actually designed the cars with a little serviceability in mind. At least the ones that I owned form the 80's and 90's did. Can't speak to the latest models.
Interestingly, BMW is not considered a "luxury" car in Europe, where most of the cars sold are strippers without all the bells and whistles that US buyers demand. I'm sure that the strippers are more reliable than the US ones because of all the electronic/electrical accessory crap.
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
'Struth...(YMMV)
I once owned a FIAT 128 (factory sold to Balkans and became YUGO) -- great little car, IMO. Engine-type was the pedecessor of the VW Rabbit (and then the first Chrysler Omni-rizons). I'd have little apprehension (given, time & place) in owning a YUGO.
For a motoring enthusiast, Consumer Report is a poor place to look for info... :huh:
As Mr.s Rossi & Lorenzo are telling us: Chryslers will soon be FIATs -- will they "take" in America?
(I think Americans often develope inordinate/infectuous biases that cause/promote product failure in the marketplace)
old&slow
Well-known member
If you have / had a VW ,, Ford ,, Chevy ,, Chrysler ,, BMW ,, etc. etc. and have had good luck with it ,
and are happy with it. Then I'm happy for you ..
Probably why they make SO many different brands / types.
I wasn't trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties , just because they like and are happy with XYZ brand..
Hell, I figure some of you folks even like FJR's..
(sorry ,, it's friday and I was bored,,)
and are happy with it. Then I'm happy for you ..
Probably why they make SO many different brands / types.
I wasn't trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties , just because they like and are happy with XYZ brand..
Hell, I figure some of you folks even like FJR's..
(sorry ,, it's friday and I was bored,,)
cruppelt
Will always be FJR rider at heart
It's Friday, so now I feel comfortable commenting on this post...
So being an Engineer (mechanical, but originally Maschinenbau) AND being German didn't really make me want to comment much on the "crappy German engineering nowadays" statement... :lol:
What most of you probably don't realize is that with VW most cars are no longer actually made in Germany anyway. And even if they are, the components are not. Germany had the same problem of outsourcing that's been rampant in the US for many years, and VW ended up buying a bunch of other European car manufacturers in other regions of Europe as in Skoda and Seat, where a bunch of the VW parts are made and cars are assembled. Now to be fair, they also bought companies like Lamborghini, Bugatti and Bentley, but as far as I can tell they kept them pretty much separate from the VW operations.
I concur on the notion that part of the problem lies in the upgraded packages that are sold here in the US. VW especially are meant as cheap but decent UTILITY cars for the German market, and as such come pretty much stripped there. These versions are usually much more reliable as compared to what's in the US. Case in point is the 2003 Passat station wagon I had here in Portland. It came with a leather package, and a pre-installed top rack, neither of which were available in the exact same versions and parts in Germany (I looked at the time on a visit to Germany). One of these issues was based on them making the inside door handles color matched to the leather. To get that done they basically dipped these hard plastic pieces in a vinyl coating, which rubbed off after less then a year (even on the passenger side). The other issue was that they had a special "filler" piece that went into the roof channel instead of the normal piece they have there to mount the standard racks they sell for these cars in Europe. These pieces would always come out of the channels at the very front and at the very back. The problem with that was that VW in Germany did not seam to care about that too much since they were "exotic" parts for them, since the much bigger world wide quantities of cars did not have these parts at all... So after 3 years the dealer exchanged the parts (for free) for the second time with still exactly the same parts yet again. I sold the car soon after, so I don't know if they ever fixed them later on, but I doubt it...
So being an Engineer (mechanical, but originally Maschinenbau) AND being German didn't really make me want to comment much on the "crappy German engineering nowadays" statement... :lol:
What most of you probably don't realize is that with VW most cars are no longer actually made in Germany anyway. And even if they are, the components are not. Germany had the same problem of outsourcing that's been rampant in the US for many years, and VW ended up buying a bunch of other European car manufacturers in other regions of Europe as in Skoda and Seat, where a bunch of the VW parts are made and cars are assembled. Now to be fair, they also bought companies like Lamborghini, Bugatti and Bentley, but as far as I can tell they kept them pretty much separate from the VW operations.
I concur on the notion that part of the problem lies in the upgraded packages that are sold here in the US. VW especially are meant as cheap but decent UTILITY cars for the German market, and as such come pretty much stripped there. These versions are usually much more reliable as compared to what's in the US. Case in point is the 2003 Passat station wagon I had here in Portland. It came with a leather package, and a pre-installed top rack, neither of which were available in the exact same versions and parts in Germany (I looked at the time on a visit to Germany). One of these issues was based on them making the inside door handles color matched to the leather. To get that done they basically dipped these hard plastic pieces in a vinyl coating, which rubbed off after less then a year (even on the passenger side). The other issue was that they had a special "filler" piece that went into the roof channel instead of the normal piece they have there to mount the standard racks they sell for these cars in Europe. These pieces would always come out of the channels at the very front and at the very back. The problem with that was that VW in Germany did not seam to care about that too much since they were "exotic" parts for them, since the much bigger world wide quantities of cars did not have these parts at all... So after 3 years the dealer exchanged the parts (for free) for the second time with still exactly the same parts yet again. I sold the car soon after, so I don't know if they ever fixed them later on, but I doubt it...
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stellarsteve
Well-known member
I agree that if you take care of your vehicle and do the schedule maintenance it will prolong the life of the car. But it has been things that are not part of regular maintenance. Window controllers (3) seat controllers (2) engine sensors (2) airbag sensor (1) seatbelt latches (3) that have been the problems. And each of these are hundreds of dollars to fix. Engine runs great. I religiously change oil every 5k miles. Tranny is a little sketchy though. And these are the things that I can't fix, especially the controllers since they have to be programmed to the car (or so I am told). That is why it is going. Wife is so worried now that she won't even drive it. I have to use it to drop the kids off in the morning. I hate being seen driving it. I drop the kids off, race back home and get on the bike to drive to work. Aahh, much better.
Nitro
Well-known member
V.W.'s are a horrible money pit, the Beetle and Toureg being the worst of the lot.
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