Why do you think my FJR's transmission failed?

[Dan23]

My old FJR ('06 Gen II with a bit under 80k miles) lost 4th gear while on a trip, so I traded it on the fly for a 2014 ES model and completed my trip.

What made my '06 FJR's transmission fail? Or is the transmission a known weak point of the FJR's design?

Oil changes were at 5k mile intervals using Mobil1 15w50. Symptoms of the failure were that 4th gear was okay until significant throttle was applied, then it slipped while emitting mechanical noise indicating the gear dogs were slipping.

 

[Intech]

There have been very few documented transmission failures that I know of. Anything mechanical is bound to have failures.

 

[hppants]

Without disassembling the motor/tranny, it's impossible to guess. Exactly what were the symptoms?

 

[Geezer]

As far as I know, there have been several people who had trouble with the shift dogs on second gear rounding off, and there has been one problem reported about the shift ratchet itself failing. Overall, not too bad. Yamaha transmissions, in my experience, are not as smooth as those in Hondas that I have ridden, so there may be room for improvement, but it is unusual for them to break.

Since the dealer took your '06 in on trade I assume they plan to repair and sell it. Maybe they can tell you what they find. It would be interesting to know.

 

[ionbeam]

**** happens, things break; especially complicated things that get lots of action.

Motorcycle transmissions like to be shifted quickly and not fully loaded. You can get away with clutchless shifting if done correctly. Else.....

Motorcycle transmissions like to be shifted when moving. Shifting when stopped or after a long coast with the clutch pulled in can cause the gear dogs to slow or stop and not want to engage. I've seen riders persistently bang on the shifter and bend the shift forks when all they needed to do was quickly fan the clutch a small amount and get the gears to move. Bent shift forks usually take a long time before they start to express symptoms, but by then it's too late.

The shift lever isn't a toe rest. Letting your foot rest and put pressure on the shifter isn't good.

A sticking shift lever will cause the shift drum not to return to the center position causing the feeling that there is no connection in the transmission. The correct reaction is to slightly tap the shift lever into the center position; the wrong reaction is to bang on the shift lever while swearing at the 'broken' transmission.

[Explicit] The rider is interactive with the transmission and has great influence over the reliability and performance. [/Explicit]

Did the motorcycle know you didn't have YES?

 

[Uncle Hud]

ionbeam says: "Motorcycle transmissions like to be shifted while moving. Shifting when stopped or after a long coast with the clutch pulled in can cause the gear dogs to slow or stop and not want to engage." (Pardon any typos: copy/paste doesn't seem to work with posts, and the quote feature doesn't provide the quote's source.)

Thanks for that, Professor! In context with wfooshee's transmission-shifting video, this makes me think I've been doing it wrong for years. I always downshift when approaching a stop, but usually sit at the red light in neutral. Should I be waiting in first gear with the clutch lever pulled in?

In theory, this would leave the transmission gears/dogs engaged, avoiding the "clunk" shift into first as the light changes to green, and reduce wear on internals.

Sound right?

(This also jives with some rider education courses that teach the first-gear-with-clutch waiting technique as a means to enable a quick maneuver and avoid danger.)

 

[Mihalis fjr]

I love my fjr,but i hear and i had some problems with her..I replaced the TPS,Ignition switch and CCT.I have done three times a clutch plate bath without a result..

I have done 180.000kmiles with my XTZ750 Super Tenere 1990 model.

I never have had a problem with this bike,No CCT,No Ground spiders,No TPS,No Ignition switch failure,No dry clutch plates problem.No corroded couplers.No windshield auto retract issues..No subframe cracks.No ABS problems..No transmision failure..Nothing!

Only one time i replaced the rectifier regulator at 3000kmiles.Nothing else for 180.000kmiles!She never left me on the side of the road from the 1991 from when i bought her.

Everyone has his opinion..My opinion...:

Low quality..!

The last years the quality of the metals,plastics and paint are low i believe.Not only in Yamaha but to all brands.

 

[Dan23]

Thanks for the replies so far. None of the user-error problems sound like things I did. I may ask at the dealer who took it in what they found, but he's not exactly close to home.

 

[Twigg]

Thanks for that, Professor! In context with wfooshee's transmission-sifting video, this makes me think I've been doing it wrong for years. I always downshift when approaching a stop, but usually sit at the red light in neutral. Should I be waiting in first gear with the clutch lever pulled in?

In theory, this would leave the transmission gears/dogs engaged, avoiding the "clunk" shift into first as the light changes to green, and reduce wear on internals.

Sound right?

That would avoid the clunk .... and with respect to the clunk being discussed in another thread, mine does it too and I ignore it ... However, the bike should always shift easily into 1st from neutral when stationary.

What it will struggle to do is shift, for example, from 4th through to 1st while stationary. Pretty much all sequential gearboxes need the shafts to move a little to allow repeated down-shifting.

 

[HYCLE]

Found this on another forum.

"I used Mobil 1 for years but stopped in '09 when they changed their formula. They didn't tell anyone for a year after. Now only the Mobil 1 motorcycle racing blend is recommended for bikes with wet clutches. They also make one for v-twins. A lot of folks I know have had clutch issues without understanding why. Mobil never marked the containers with the additives. It wasn't until people started complaining they admitted what they had done and recommended their racing formula Mobil 1's strictly be used in bikes."

"I used a lot of M1 15w50 over the years. The red cap quarts were the holy grail of oils for the BMW air cooled crowd. (Still have a few quarts left if you really want it...) Tried it in a couple of shared sump bikes with less than stellar results. Viscosity drops pretty quick in shared sump bikes as the viscosity improvers shear. Ironically, the conventional Mobil 20w50 (Exxon Superflo is the same product)holds grade very well, and in shared sump bikes a 50/50 blend of the M1 and conventional works really well. The T6 is cheaper and readily available. Sounds like a good choice"

Did you only use "Mobil 1 Racing 4T" for the life of the bike?

 

[Old Guy]

Unless I'm misinterpreting "then it slipped while emitting mechanical noise indicating the gear dogs were slipping" I wouldn't think this was a clutch slipping. Even then why would it slip in 4th and not 5th?

 

[08FJR4ME]

Did you keep the RPM's up or were you doing 30 mph riding in 4'th gear. Did any other gears slip or just forth?

Dave

 

[Kaelaria]

My '06 had a defective cracked 2nd gear that took it out.

 

[bluesdog]

Anyone have information/data on transmission failure rate for the fjr?

I noticed when I first rode the bike that the 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th shifting was more sensitive to shifting speed and 'decisiveness' than the others, and adjusted my shifting habits accordingly.

Pre-loading the shifter, especially for up-shifts, and shifting firmly and quickly seems to result in smooth, quiet shifts. Pumping the clutch a couple times prior to shifting into first from neutral usually eliminates most, if not all, of the clunk.

I always have the bike in first while waiting at stops; always leave it in first when parked, and always shift into neutral when starting the engine.

I service the clutch each year, (disassemble clutch lever to clean and lube the pivot, and replace the hydraulic fluid)

BTW, a machinist friend recently told me about aluminum bronze as a recommended bushing material, and this winter I'll be experimenting with replacing the clutch lever bushing with that material.

 

[Geezer]

I just remembered that I installed an R1 shift link back when my '05 was nearly new. That link changes the leverage and shortens the throw between shifts. I think the FJR likes those quick shifts and that may be why I have been able to shift trouble free, both up and down, with or without using the clutch.

 

[Dan23]

Just for the record, I never shift without using the clutch. Basically, though, I follow that same procedure... except I use the clutch lever.

The Mobil1 I used has a grey cap. Service SN, SM, SL. No "energy conserving" labeling which is the oil that resulted in wet clutch slipping when the engine and transmission shared the oil. It also had less zinc to resist shearing damage at the gear faces. The gear dogs likely wore in my case and the result was "then it slipped while emitting mechanical noise indicating the gear dogs were slipping" as Old Dog pointed out.

My hunch is that the transmission 4th gear dogs simply are not robust enough to stand up to my use. Yamaha should do the post-mortem if they care. My guess is the dealer planned to send the bike to a breaker and the bike will be sold for parts. I don't really think they'll repair it. What would the cost be vs the potential selling price? While we were completing the sale, the sales guy called someone and confirmed the bike was worth what they gave me in trade.

The thing I'm thankful for is that I did not sell the bike to someone who shortly had the problem. Mutual mistrust would ensue.

 

[Geezer]

My hunch is that the transmission 4th gear dogs simply are not robust enough to stand up to my use. Yamaha should do the post-mortem if they care. My guess is the dealer planned to send the bike to a breaker and the bike will be sold for parts. I don't really think they'll repair it. What would the cost be vs the potential selling price? While we were completing the sale, the sales guy called someone and confirmed the bike was worth what they gave me in trade.

Since it sounds like you took very good care of your FJR and did not do anything to cause premature failure of the transmission, it is likely that you had one or two parts in there that were weak or too close to 'out of spec' to hold up. Considering that we have not heard of any other failure with respect to 4th gear, you may have had a bad part but in general the design is otherwise robust.
Too bad we are not likely to ever find out what really happened in that gearbox.

 

[Old Guy]

My hunch is that the transmission 4th gear dogs simply are not robust enough to stand up to my use. Yamaha should do the post-mortem if they care. My guess is the dealer planned to send the bike to a breaker and the bike will be sold for parts. I don't really think they'll repair it. What would the cost be vs the potential selling price? While we were completing the sale, the sales guy called someone and confirmed the bike was worth what they gave me in trade.

Since it sounds like you took very good care of your FJR and did not do anything to cause premature failure of the transmission, it is likely that you had one or two parts in there that were weak or too close to 'out of spec' to hold up. Considering that we have not heard of any other failure with respect to 4th gear, you may have had a bad part but in general the design is otherwise robust.
Too bad we are not likely to ever find out what really happened in that gearbox.

I'd agree. If 4th gear were a weak point on the bike, you'd think we'd be hearing more about 4th gear failures. With barely over 25,000 miles on my FJR, I know mine's not a good example, but I use the heck out of 4th gear. On two-lane roads, I'll often drop to 4th for a quick pass or even just leave it in 4th for miles if the road is a fun crooked road.

 

[Constant Mesh]

If you come to a stop and haven't downshifted to 1st it's easier and obviously nondestructive to shut off the engine and work down to 1st and then restart.

It's relatively easy to work through the gears with the engine off. Just rock the bike back and forth a little and the gears will align quite easily as you downshift. You won't damage any of the forks, dogs, etc. with the engine off.

You won't experience any false neutrals with the engine off. You may with the engine idling.

It's kind of a helpless feeling when you try to downshift several cogs with the bike idling and motionless. Not good.