Wicked Webby's Recipe for Great HP and Torque!

[Wicked Webby]

Sock,

The problem with your rational on your above post is that a bone stock FJR would not have turned 128.9hp on this dyno..This dyno reads historically low compared to others in town(probably around 124hp). Remember, my baseline run was already with the Remus Hexacones installed with the baffles removed! You can't compare seperate dynometer performance numbers to each other for a true comparision of what bike has what.. Same dyno needs to be used.

You can't take the wind out of these sails. I was able to get over 8 peak hp and 2 lbs of peak tq after some free basic mods (air box & barbarian mod) and tuning back to back on the dyno after my baseline run. Not to mention all the extra Hp(10 hp in some places) and tq(15lbs in some places) through out the rpm range that I never even had before. Then even more improvements after some road tuning!!!! The Boarhouse dyno(historically reads low) only showed 138 hp but would be higher on a dyno that reads higher (one not programmed to use the max amount of smoothness correction).

My sails are full my Man!!

WW

:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

 

[jstewart]

Well I won't be able to do the dyno testing I planned to do today on the air box mods. Damn rain here in the midwest has been a bummer all spring. I am interested to see what the mods I have made to the airbox did, since I am retaining the standard K&N filter with the box opened on the right side (twice the original inlet area into the filter). WW I have the option of using a power commander since it is already installed and comparing the results against the jumper mod which I also did. This type of comparison will require me taking the bike back to the Schnitz dyno shop and an experienced Dynojet tuner, Ryan Schnitz, who races prostock for Rob Muzzy. I found out the local Ducati dealer who just installed a new Dynojet 250 has no dyno experience and hasn't sent anyone to school yet :glare: .

 

[DaveFJR]

Well I won't be able to do the dyno testing I planned to do today on the air box mods. Damn rain here in the midwest has been a bummer all spring. I am interested to see what the mods I have made to the airbox did, since I am retaining the standard K&N filter with the box opened on the right side (twice the original inlet area into the filter). WW I have the option of using a power commander since it is already installed and comparing the results against the jumper mod which I also did. This type of comparison will require me taking the bike back to the Schnitz dyno shop and an experienced Dynojet tuner, Ryan Schnitz, who races prostock for Rob Muzzy. I found out the local Ducati dealer who just installed a new Dynojet 250 has no dyno experience and hasn't sent anyone to school yet :glare: .

jstewart:

I think what you are trying is a good idea. If WW did his base run with the stock filter then part of the restriction WW removed in his mod may have been in the filter media (K&N vs stock paper.) Hey, he got 3hp just cutting off the snorkel and how easy is that to do! I have a Muzzy exhaust, K&N, and DFO and was going to do the snorkel job on the box but will wait & see what results you get with the other opening added too. I think WW did a great job and apppreciate your efforts to build upon the data.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Thanks Dave,

No doubt the added air and fuel makes a World of difference!!

WW

 

[jstewart]

Dave, don't expect the stock replacement K&N filter to add much HP over a stock filter. In my experience K&N direct replacement filters are engineered to flow slightly more air than the stockers (they advertise no fuel adjustments required when using their filter). The real advantage is they are cleanable and will last a long time. If BMC made a race filter for the FJR that would make a real difference in airflow potential. It all depends on whether the stock replacement K&N will flow enough air & whether doubling the inlet area to the filter is enough. My ass dyno tells me my less radical airbox mods made a real difference. My bet is that the dyno results will be something less than WW has achieved but enough to make a real difference on the dyno. Also bear in mind that different DynoJet dynos give somewhat different readouts so what I get and what WW got cannot be directly compared. I will do before and after testing (1 inlet with the snorkel cut off versus the dual inlets with no snorkels) which should provide some reasonable points of comparison to what WW achieved. Dyno testing will have to wait until my busy business schedule frees up and when Ryan Schnitz can schedule dyno time around his obligations riding pro stock for Rob Muzzy and his dyno business schedule. If I am going to do this dyno tuning experiment I prefer to use a real pro to do the tuning and do a thorough job like WW did. The other thing that I hope to determine is whether the barbarian jumper mod is as effective as a properly tuned power commander since I have done both. This experiment will probably stretch out over the next 4 to 6 weeks due to scheduling the test time. WW you did a great job looking for the most cost effective way of getting some extra HP & TQ out of the FJR.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Dave, don't expect the stock replacement K&N filter to add much HP over a stock filter. In my experience K&N direct replacement filters are engineered to flow slightly more air than the stockers (they advertise no fuel adjustments required when using their filter). The real advantage is they are cleanable and will last a long time. If BMC made a race filter for the FJR that would make a real difference in airflow potential. It all depends on whether the stock replacement K&N will flow enough air & whether doubling the inlet area to the filter is enough. My ass dyno tells me my less radical airbox mods made a real difference. My bet is that the dyno results will be something less than WW has achieved but enough to make a real difference on the dyno. Also bear in mind that different DynoJet dynos give somewhat different readouts so what I get and what WW got cannot be directly compared. I will do before and after testing (1 inlet with the snorkel cut off versus the dual inlets with no snorkels) which should provide some reasonable points of comparison to what WW achieved. Dyno testing will have to wait until my busy business schedule frees up and when Ryan Schnitz can schedule dyno time around his obligations riding pro stock for Rob Muzzy and his dyno business schedule. If I am going to do this dyno tuning experiment I prefer to use a real pro to do the tuning and do a thorough job like WW did. The other thing that I hope to determine is whether the barbarian jumper mod is as effective as a properly tuned power commander since I have done both. This experiment will probably stretch out over the next 4 to 6 weeks due to scheduling the test time. WW you did a great job looking for the most cost effective way of getting some extra HP & TQ out of the FJR.

Thanks jstewart,

I agree that comparing seperate dyno peak numbers is pointless.. The baseline run against your runs to follow are the important thing!! Thus, the difference in power curves too!! My choice for the K an N filters was based on my experience with previously modding air filters and that they are re-usable. I bet that a fuel delivery tuner (pwc or techlusion) will give you a greater benefit of finding the sweetest tune spots of Hp/Tq in the low/middle and high rpms over the barbarian mod. As you said..My mods were an example of what could be had with just a set of slip ons and some elbow grease!!

WW

 

[jstewart]

WW see if you're dyno operator knows how to give you you're dyno runs in listed spreadsheet form as well as the normal graph form. This is assuming he saved you're run data to his hard drive. The dyno run data is more useful in this foremat than in the normal graphed foremat as you can see small differences not apparent on a graph. You can list the run data in any rpm increments you choose (I normally ask for the run data in 100 RPM increments). You will get a spreadsheet with columns for RPM, with run time et, HP, TQ and A/F ratio across the sheet at each RPM increment selected off the DynoJet software. If he doesn't know how to list the data from each run in this format (most operators don't know how) have him call DynoJet tech support and they will tell him how. The dyno run time is particularly useful in comparing different combinations. The only catch is you have to use the same start of run RPM and end of run RPM to get accurate comparisons for run et's.

 

[Fred W]

The latest thing I have tried (just this week) is to re-connect the O2 sensor and bump the CO settings back up the magic 7. This seems interesting in that I expected hooking up the O2 sensor would negate the PCIII, but this is clearly not the case. I may go ahead and hook up a scope to the O2 sensor and see what's going on mixture wise. I know this won't give me a picture of what each cylinder is doing, but it should shjow me an average of the 4, which is what you adjust with the PCIII anyway. There is a "fuel trim" feature in the PCIII, but mine is set to all zeroes.

Following up on my own prior post (above) I took a short ride on Saturday (it's all I had time for with other commitments) and there is clearly a difference in the cruise speed surging with a PCIII running and the O2 sensor connected vs. disconnected. I am going back to disconnected. It was a lame attempt to be more "green" and still get the engine smoothness I am desperately after. Next (and hopefully final) step will be a dyno shop.

 

[DaveFJR]

Dave, don't expect the stock replacement K&N filter to add much HP over a stock filter. In my experience K&N direct replacement filters are engineered to flow slightly more air than the stockers (they advertise no fuel adjustments required when using their filter). The real advantage is they are cleanable and will last a long time. If BMC made a race filter for the FJR that would make a real difference in airflow potential. It all depends on whether the stock replacement K&N will flow enough air & whether doubling the inlet area to the filter is enough. My ass dyno tells me my less radical airbox mods made a real difference. My bet is that the dyno results will be something less than WW has achieved but enough to make a real difference on the dyno. Also bear in mind that different DynoJet dynos give somewhat different readouts so what I get and what WW got cannot be directly compared. I will do before and after testing (1 inlet with the snorkel cut off versus the dual inlets with no snorkels) which should provide some reasonable points of comparison to what WW achieved. Dyno testing will have to wait until my busy business schedule frees up and when Ryan Schnitz can schedule dyno time around his obligations riding pro stock for Rob Muzzy and his dyno business schedule. If I am going to do this dyno tuning experiment I prefer to use a real pro to do the tuning and do a thorough job like WW did. The other thing that I hope to determine is whether the barbarian jumper mod is as effective as a properly tuned power commander since I have done both. This experiment will probably stretch out over the next 4 to 6 weeks due to scheduling the test time. WW you did a great job looking for the most cost effective way of getting some extra HP & TQ out of the FJR.

ON the K&N Website they have the following:

"What increase in horsepower should I expect from a K&N replacement filter?

K&N direct replacement filters which install into your vehicle’s factory air box can provide an increase of between 1 and 4 horsepower. Results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors."

It could just be marketing, but I thought I would just show what was on their website. As always, the truth is only at the dyno.

 

[Fred W]

ON the K&N Website they have the following:
"What increase in horsepower should I expect from a K&N replacement filter?

K&N direct replacement filters which install into your vehicle’s factory air box can provide an increase of between 1 and 4 horsepower. Results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors."

It could just be marketing, but I thought I would just show what was on their website. As always, the truth is only at the dyno.

I call "Total Marketing BS".

How would driving habits or load effect the increase of horsepower?

 

[Wicked Webby]

I don't suspect that just adding K n N filters does much in regards to adding HP.

On a side note, regarding my CO levels.. I noticed when I backed them off a little bit from +36, to +34 my Gas mileage increased, and the ease of my throttle wheelies increased too. I currently have them set at +35(all cylinders) for the best low end, mid range, top power balance. It seems if I dial in enough fuel for a noticeable top speed increase (+38) that I lose power in the low end and mid range but gain some way on top (too rich in the low and mids then). I plan to test this theory this weekend. If correct.. My bike would benefit from a techlusion tuner or PWC.

{EDIT: Tested... +33 to +35 seems to be best for all around power.. +32 and below gets a little lean and I start to lose power all across the rpm range compared to +33 on up. I could benefit more from a tuner. HOWEVER... MY bike goes like CRAZY.. SO I don't need it, yet. I did a roll on against my friends C14, I was at +34 (he has the TBR pipe).. We did 3rd gear to 3rd gear and I run away from him.. With his in 3rd gear against mine in 4th gear we are pretty close!! Very impressive considering the C14 has the acceleration gearing advantages in all gears!! I will hold off on the tuner until my buddy with the C14 removes his flies and gets a tuner and custom tune. Don't need it yet!!!}

When needed, I will probably go with the techlusion.. The only reason being.. This unit allows you the option to leave the 02 sensor connected and have the idle dial and low rpm dials set off(allowing my current CO settings to remain in place).. While still having the ability to adjust the main jet(wide open, over 70% throttle). My thinking is since I already have it dialed in for INCREDIBLE low and midrange performance... Why change anything! Then I can just dial up the main jet for maximum fuel delivery under wide open conditions for the best top speed scenarios.

Just a thought,

WW

 

[jstewart]

I tried running my power commander with a map installed and the O2 sensor hooked up and there was a hesitation when first getting on the throttle like the exhaust sensor and ECU were re-correcting for the altered FI settings in the power commander. The result was the bike ran worse with the O2 sensor connected while running a map in the power commander. Not sure about a Techfusion but my experience is the bike runs better seat of the pants with the O2 sensor disconnected when running a map program in the power commander. I am not familiar with the technical details of how the Techfusion alters the FI signals. The early Power Commander did this indirectly by altering the sensor inputs to the bikes ECU. The currect more sophisticated Power commander USB takes direct control of the injectors by altering the pulse width (how long the injectors are on or open) of the signals coming from the bikes ECU. If the Techfusion alters the FI programs in the ECU by changing the sensor inputs (like temperature, Barometric pressure ect) like the early Power Commander did I can see how it would work with a exhaust sensor connected. WW it will be interesting to see how you're testing this weekend turns out.

 

[DaveFJR]

I tried running my power commander with a map installed and the O2 sensor hooked up and there was a hesitation when first getting on the throttle like the exhaust sensor and ECU were re-correcting for the altered FI settings in the power commander. The result was the bike ran worse with the O2 sensor connected while running a map in the power commander. Not sure about a Techfusion but my experience is the bike runs better seat of the pants with the O2 sensor disconnected when running a map program in the power commander. I am not familiar with the technical details of how the Techfusion alters the FI signals. The early Power Commander did this indirectly by altering the sensor inputs to the bikes ECU. The currect more sophisticated Power commander USB takes direct control of the injectors by altering the pulse width (how long the injectors are on or open) of the signals coming from the bikes ECU. If the Techfusion alters the FI programs in the ECU by changing the sensor inputs (like temperature, Barometric pressure ect) like the early Power Commander did I can see how it would work with a exhaust sensor connected. WW it will be interesting to see how you're testing this weekend turns out.

I have the REVTEC (Techlusion) DFO on my bike. I disconnected the O2 sensor & did the rev the motor, listen, adjust, ride method. Ended up exactly the same as the recommended settings. It runs great & I typically average 42 mpg, doing 70-80mph on the highway & some city riding (calculated at fill ups.) My average mileage on the display reads 46.7 mpg if that is any help.

The REVTECH tech told me that you can tune the DFO by taking CO measurements. They also sell CO meters (one mounts in the dash of the bike so you can see what it is all the time while you ride and can adjust settings.) I think there is a %CO reading for max HP and another for max torque. Maybe a CO meter on the FJR dash would look nice. My Yamaha dealer has a CO meter in the shop and said they would adjust the DFO for $65 labor.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Dave,

Thanks. I am a big fan of the techlusion tuner. Per their instructions.. You can use it with the 02 sensor connected as long as you leave the first dial set at the 1 O'Clock position(off). I really like the higher mileage you are getting. Is the bike stock except for the tuner?

WW

 

[DaveFJR]

Dave,
Thanks. I am a big fan of the techlusion tuner. Per their instructions.. You can use it with the 02 sensor connected as long as you leave the first dial set at the 1 O'Clock position(off). I really like the higher mileage you are getting. Is the bike stock except for the tuner?

WW

My FJR has a 4 into 1 Muzzy Exhaust, K&N Air Filter, & the DFO. Next I plan to install CR8EIX plugs when I do a TB sync.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Dave,
Thanks. I am a big fan of the techlusion tuner. Per their instructions.. You can use it with the 02 sensor connected as long as you leave the first dial set at the 1 O'Clock position(off). I really like the higher mileage you are getting. Is the bike stock except for the tuner?

WW

My FJR has a 4 into 1 Muzzy Exhaust, K&N Air Filter, & the DFO. Next I plan to install CR8EIX plugs when I do a TB sync.

No wonder why you don't need the 02 sensor plugged in. You should mod the air box(then add more fuel). You won't believe the power change it makes! You'll love it!

WW

 

[DaveFJR]

Dave,
Thanks. I am a big fan of the techlusion tuner. Per their instructions.. You can use it with the 02 sensor connected as long as you leave the first dial set at the 1 O'Clock position(off). I really like the higher mileage you are getting. Is the bike stock except for the tuner?

WW

My FJR has a 4 into 1 Muzzy Exhaust, K&N Air Filter, & the DFO. Next I plan to install CR8EIX plugs when I do a TB sync.

No wonder why you don't need the 02 sensor plugged in. You should mod the air box(then add more fuel). You won't believe the power change it makes! You'll love it!

WW

As noted previously, you need to unplug the O2 sensor with the Techlusion or you lose the low speed adjustment. For my carb bikes, the idle air jet adjustment always made a big difference (done by removing the EPA plugs in the carbs and turning screws.) I guess that is why I like the Dobeck unit so much because it's like tuning A carb. I did not do the barbarian mod because I installed a DFO.

 

[Bogie]

Good read here! I really like the looks of the Remus exhaust. What kind of noise level do you get from them. The Website makes them sound realy good with out gettting obnoxiously loud like the Akra Full Evo system i had on my previous R1!! :clapping: :lol:

 

[Wicked Webby]

Good read here! I really like the looks of the Remus exhaust. What kind of noise level do you get from them. The Website makes them sound realy good with out gettting obnoxiously loud like the Akra Full Evo system i had on my previous R1!! :clapping: :lol:

Bogie,

They aren't real real loud with the baffles in. With the baffles out, they are a bit more throaty and a tad more of a report. However, with the modded air box they got a little louder yet.. BUT so did the intake noise.. Sounds like a 4 barrel carb opening up aroung 5 grand. I think it sounds really good!

WW

 

[jstewart]

I won't be getting a new custom map done for the air box mods now on my 05 FJR. I sold the 05 bike today and bought a new 08 FJR :yahoo: . So now I will be doing the same air box mods on the 08 after the break in. This mod is just to simple and effective not to do on the new bike. Sorry guys I hoped to shed some light on whether the power commander would produce as good a result as the barbarian jumper mod on my 05 but it is not to be. I expect I will be doing the same mods to the 08 though, it will just take a little longer.