Would you ABS again?

[worldbound4now]

ABS is a definite asset worth the minimal weight increase. Loose a little body mass to make up for the difference.

PS A poll would have been a better option for this thread

 

[Graham Downunder]

This is a touring bike ,not a race bike . You have been travelling for say 3- 4 hours and you get an " O **** " moment .The ABS will let you stop faster and in a shorter distance than non ABS , the FATIGUE factory comes into play , that is the big thing that everone forgets when they compaire ABS . Yes some RACE riders can stop a bike without ABS better ,but ask them to do the test after 3-4 hours ridding and doubt if even Mike DOOHAN could beat himself with ABS

 

[SPORT]

PS A poll would have been a better option for this thread

Perhaps, but isn't this more interesting??

 

[Dan23]

Whoever it was that crashed his FJR because he was looking in the mirrors should post that over in the FJR crash thread because that's a new way to bust your chops. Very funny I'll bet.

 

[oldfool99]

Very first ride on my brand new 07, and you know what happened: I had to STAND on the brakes, and it stuttered to a stop.

A bike w/o ABS would have locked and dropped.

BTW, 280 miles so far, and I have already pegged the fun meter. Went up the canyon yesterday with my Harley friend. My bike wouldn't go that slow, so I waited for him at the bar in Nederland, and that is at half throttle, still breaking it in.

oldfool99

 

[2WheelTiger]

So far, I freakin' hate the ABS. It's kicked in once. If I'd been on my old 04 or my R1, the thing would have been a non-event. Instead, since the system decided I was losing the front end, my stopping point ended up about 3 feet farther forward than I planned.

Maybe some day when I'm having a brain dead moment, it'll pay off, but I really really hate the system right now.

 

[rocketdoc]

Never rely on technology, but when you have to grab the whole thing and it still looks like you're going in, remember you can still aim with ABS for the space that might save your life. Worked for me. ++ ABS and I follow at a much safer distance now. Live and learn.

 

[noob]

I think the best thing about ABS is that when you sell your bike you'll have alot more people that will want to buy it. It seems that just about everyone thinks it's gonna "save their bacon".

Modern motorcycles (without abs) have so much stopping power you can do a stoppie with them. I teach msf courses, proper front wheel braking technique is called a "delayed firm squeeze". With a bit of practice anyone can perform the technique, you don't have to be Ricky Roadracer.

And like any learned skill, practice will ingrain it to the point that it's automatic, no matters how tired.

Regards,

 

[Dan23]

It seems that just about everyone thinks it's gonna "save their bacon".

:lol: Uh huh. :lol:

remember you can still aim with ABS for the space that might save your life.

I'm sure that's a revelation to some. (See above.) :lol:

 

[RatoneMuerto]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: testing brake performance, when involved in such an enterprise, is a whole lot different than when faced with an emergency maneuver. Racing is not streeting. When testers are involved in such, the mindset is with the program at hand-they know whats going on, and whats expected to happen, a whole lot different than when cruising along the highway, aware of whats around you, but not totally concentrating on emergency maneuvers to come. This is where ABS shines-it can save an OH ****!!!!!!!!!! moment like almost nothing else. I have ABS, tried to get a bike without, but not sorry I failed in that. While I haven't had occasion to test it out in a true emergency, I have seen where having it would have probably saved a couple situations I've been very close to. I have banged the rear a number of times when braking hard and downshifting as in a fast corner approach-it's a nice reminder that I'm at the limit of rear tire adhesion, a real side benefit of the system. I know that, where I'm comfortable in a car without it, it makes a lot of sense on a big fast bike like the Feej. Anything that can help maintain rider control, as long as it isn't intrusive (traction control, for one) is a plus in my book.

AMEN BROTHER!

 

[Cdogman]

I think the best thing about ABS is that when you sell your bike you'll have alot more people that will want to buy it. It seems that just about everyone thinks it's gonna "save their bacon".
Modern motorcycles (without abs) have so much stopping power you can do a stoppie with them. I teach msf courses, proper front wheel braking technique is called a "delayed firm squeeze". With a bit of practice anyone can perform the technique, you don't have to be Ricky Roadracer.

And like any learned skill, practice will ingrain it to the point that it's automatic, no matters how tired.

Regards,

I understand your point. I have taken, and have very high regard for MSF instructors. I know for a fact you cannot do a "Stoppie" on a GL1800..... my 1st bike., I did not have ABS and at the ERC I brokle the front tire loose several times for the last 2-3 feet of my "Panic Stop" practice. I am pretty sure, if I did not have ABS I would not be able to do a stoppie on my FJR. Wheelbase is too long and I am too fat. But for the sake argument lets say I could.

We are not talking about controlled enviroments here. We are talking about "real" panic. I also understand with enough practice it can be ingrained to near perfection. Most riders do not practice to that level. When I was in the Military, Ingrained response in panic situation required THOUSANDS of hours of drill and precision practice to know for sure that is what will happen when your mind shuts down and you alter ego (the afraid to die little kid inside) is screaming Phuuuuuuuukkk meeeeeeee and your "Auto Pilot" kicks in

So, the theory is great and absolutely valid. Reality however can be very different.

BTW the MSF course training I received has saved my but more than my ABS, but still cannot replace it

YMMV

 

[noob]

I understand your point. I have taken, and have very high regard for MSF instructors. I know for a fact you cannot do a "Stoppie" on a GL1800..... my 1st bike., I did not have ABS and at the ERC I brokle the front tire loose several times for the last 2-3 feet of my "Panic Stop" practice. I am pretty sure, if I did not have ABS I would not be able to do a stoppie on my FJR. Wheelbase is too long and I am too fat. But for the sake argument lets say I could.
We are not talking about controlled enviroments here. We are talking about "real" panic. I also understand with enough practice it can be ingrained to near perfection. Most riders do not practice to that level. When I was in the Military, Ingrained response in panic situation required THOUSANDS of hours of drill and precision practice to know for sure that is what will happen when your mind shuts down and you alter ego (the afraid to die little kid inside) is screaming Phuuuuuuuukkk meeeeeeee and your "Auto Pilot" kicks in

So, the theory is great and absolutely valid. Reality however can be very different.

BTW the MSF course training I received has saved my but more than my ABS, but still cannot replace it

YMMV

I would have to disagree, respectfully ofcourse. I recommend to my students and anyone that listens, to practice your emergency manuevers (braking and swerving) *every* time you ride your bike. Have a special road near where I live, virtually empty on Sunday morning, get up to 70, 80, 90, triple digits, then stop as quickly as I can, repeat, repeat, repeat. I enjoy it immensely, great confidence booster.

Practice swerving around anything you can, pot holes, anything. Ride up to it and swerve at the last second. experiment with the technique. I've found if you're riding in a sport bike position, with no weight on the wrists, the bike (any of em) is *much* more responsive to pushing down on the clipon.

My point about 'stoppies' isn't that we can do them on sport touring bikes. It's that there is so much stopping power on the front wheels of these things it's incredible. Much more so then most of us have used is my belief.

I would bet there are some here that will say they've locked up the front wheel before. But how many can say that, and also indicate they used the proper braking technique? Sure, if you're riding along and suddenly grab the front brake as hard as you possibly can, there's a good chance the tire will skid.

But if you use a "delayed firm squeeze", in which you oh so briefly apply pressure (but not full pressure), and in that fraction of a second the weight of the bike goes forward and the contact patch of the tire flattens out, as you are progressively squeezing harder, then it's my contention the front tire will not lock up, even on a sport touring bike. This is exactly what I practice, and as hard as I get on the front brake of my ST1300 (which sold today btw), I could not lock up the front brake.

Once I understood why I needed to do it this way, and I practiced it, it's second nature. It's simply "this is how you stop with a bike".

I will say this about braking hard with the (very heavy) St1300. Even as light as I am (150), the forks would bottom out and the front tire would kind of "wallow" a bit. I installed sonic springs (1.2kg) and it made a huge difference in it's ability to corner and stop. The front no longer bottomed during emergency braking (it actually had almost about 1.5 inches of travel left, which is too much, but that's another story).

But I still believe, in dry conditions, good suspension, using proper technique (which I hope is clear that it's not some road racing thing and it's something every motorcyclist should know and understand) you can stop more quickly then you can with abs.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it Regards, be safe,

 

[rhody]

:blink:

I agree with the majority. Have an 05 with ABS and it does work well, and has saved me from real terror on at least one occasion in the past year. I used to never use the rear brake, but now employ it regularly while trail braking into corners if I get in a bit too hot. It works well. It also settles the suspension nicely before applying the front brake, giving you better feedback.

I also relocated the rear brake lever down two notches so I have to really make an attempt at applying the rear brake, so far, so good. I can keep my right foot a little below level with no pain and still no pressure on the rear brake. I may change it back if I need to apply full rear brake in a panic situation. I practiced it with my last set of tires and credit that activity with cupping my front tire and adding to the flat profile of the rear, stock metzler's that came with the bike.

Anybody else out there lowered their rear brake lever and decided that it was a keeper ?

 

[Graham Downunder]

Nood your point about praticing emergency breaking breaking is well put and everyone should do it or learn how too.

I quote your here "But I still believe, in dry conditions, good suspension, using proper technique (which I hope is clear that it's not some road racing thing and it's something every motorcyclist should know and understand) you can stop more quickly then you can with abs. "

The trouble is we ride in vastly varing conditions ,you can come around corner in the dry and be faced with a washed away enbackment on the road ,with mud and lots of water in your breaking area, this and other things is were ABS helps . As I said above fatigue has a BIG affect on stopping in an emergency,not planned breaking.There are so many variables in real touring that I want ABS,but you may not want it ,that's your choice.

 

[Flint]

Before I traded the 2003 for the 2005 I was convinced that my 50 years of riding experiance would carry me through all situations? I was approaching a stop light here where I live and right before getting up to the light the foolish little nanook in the adjacent lane decided he needed to be first out. He pulled over in front of me with naught but a few feet left to go pre-impact. I added a little more pressure to the brakes and slid the rear end sideways managing to stop less than a foot from dat big chrome bumper. :clapping: That was when I decided that mebbe the ABS would be a good idee. I didn't just do it immediately but when one came along I made the trade. I haven't yet had to engage it but it is comforting to know it is there. I rode the beemers fer a few years and more than once they did activate and save me what might have been an unfortunate incident? The Wing doesn't have it but it is a very heavy bike and I have a fair degree of control with the additional weight but a light (?) bike like the FJR doesn't give much time before lockup. If I ever do an upgrade to a newer tour class bike it will probably have ABS.

Flint