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I do all routine maintenance on my motorcycles; always have. I buy mail-order tires and take in the wheels to have them mounted and balanced. I pay $25 per wheel. Is that steep? Yeah, a bit. But it's still less expensive than riding the bike to the shop, buying their tires, and paying for mounting and balancing.

I'm not interested in investing in a tire changer, so this is the best compromise for me.

I've talked this over with my dealer. He's not making a lot on this arrangement.

I'll change to the Wilbers shock myself (oh, yeah) and I'll do the front fork springs and oil, also. I'll have some help. My son is a Chevrolet and Cadillac auto tech. We can handle this.

cmegafauna: I disagree with the notion of not working on your own bike at all. Seems silly. If I have the tools, knowledge, resources, and a work place, why not? I'll know it's done right. I'll save money. Working on your own bike ain't what put the Brit bikes in the red. Building crappy bikes put the Brit bikes in the red.

Look at Triumph now. They've made a great comeback by building decent machines. Why, they might have the second- or third-best sport-tourer on the market, depending on how you feel about BMW and Ducati. :D

 
With the rims off the bike, a skilled tire changer with the right tools can do 2 tires in the amount of time it takes to smoke a few cigarettes. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it will take 20 minutes. At $25/tire, that's $150/hr. There is definitely money to be made, but, I think many of the dealers get pissed that they aren't getting the $50+ uplift that they put on a new tire. The way I see it, if a shop agrees to mount tires from elsewhere, they'll put $40 in their pocket that they woudn't have had if they chased the guy away. Additionally, making this guy happy just might make him come back and spend some dough at the shop rather than pissing him off. We motorcycle types do tend to spend some $ at shops that take care of us.

btw TWN - is Jane a hot sultry Kitchen Designer or a butch plumber? I've seen both movies, just trying to picture which Jane it was that you were referring to.

 
Having an automotive repair shop for many years, I can understand and sympathize what most dealer is going through trying to survive! Why is a dealer a stealer if they invest in equipment and pay employees to perform a job for you that you are not willing to do yourself?

Here is how I look at all this, it could be compare to having dinner, cooking your own dinner is the cheapest way to go, but if you don't want to go to a super market to buy your grocery, spend the time and gas to cook your dinner, you will have to expect to pay for eating out.

Here is the part that I can't understand why customers can't comprehend, buying a tire and bringing it to a shop is like buying your own steak and brining it to a restaurant for them to cook, I am sure the restaurant will cook the steak for you, but they sure are not going to give you a big discount for doing it.

By the way, if you get food poising, it is on you right, no, the restaurant will probably get sue if they cook the steak for you.

So look at it like this, you are actually getting a BIG discount for installation if you buy the tires from the dealer, if not, you are charged the regular price. Kind of like the gas stations that give you a discount for paying cash like Arco.

O.K, back to the tire discussion, as a previous auto shop owner, if I quote a price for changing tires, it is a package deal, I take into consideration the cost of my employee, workers comp, health, dental insurance, employee benefits, cost of equipment, rent, advertisements, and anything that is associated to be in business when I bid on a job, understanding that we need to make at least 10% net profit for our investment and time. Hell, a waiter makes 15% in tips and a business owner expecting to make 10% is not that far out of the question is it?

Now comes a customer that wish to have us install his own tires, no big deal, what happens if the tire is defective or something happens to the wheel after the tire is changed and fails, there is a cost associated with this job that most don't understand and I am sure the customer will be back at the shop demanding satisfaction even though the shop did not make the tire that failed.

In the GPS navigation business, we will install a customer nav that they purchased from the Internet, but we make it very clear to the customers if we install it and it does not work, they will have to pay us again to remove it to send it back to whom ever they purchased it from on the net, and they better hope these Internet store will make it good to them, but most will ask the customer to deal directly with the factory, and the factory will not warranty anything without a receipt from an authorized GPS reseller. You kind of get the picture, all of a sudden, this customer is not saving anything and just got himself in a lot of work trying to sort all these issues out. It is up to the customer to deal with all these warranty issues, the he said she said blame game does not apply here and normally here is what may happen. The navigation system is sent back to the Internet seller, the seller states that it is an installation issue, the installer states that the unit was that way when it was delivered to us. Who is now responsible?

If the customer was to pay the extra 10-20% additional, he would have the peace of mind that if the GPS unit installed did not functioned properly, the installation dealer that also sold him the unit will have to take it apart and deal with the factory to get this issue resolve and not the customer. Meanwhile, the installing company that sold him the GPS unit will probably install another NEW unit in it's place to expedite the service and keep the customer happy.

By the way, did I tell you guys when a customer pays full retail at our store, if a unit fails, we will lend him a unit and deal with the factory for them, we will pay for the shipping and handling, we will spend time training the customer if they don't know how to use a GPS system. We stress quality and not price alone, so many quality business is going out of business because there is only the mighty PRICE issue and no one is willing to pay anything extra for service which makes me wonder why buy insurance, save and wait and see, insurance company makes a lot of money off of all of us so we can all save and cancell all of our insurance policies and put these insurance company and their agents out of business also!

I get so tired of customers that comes to my store, taking up 30-60 minutes of my salespersons time to only say, by the way, can you match this eBay price I have found on the web after the fact?

How is this fair, he was unable to see and touch the unit on the Internet, he was unable to get information on the features and how a unit functions hands on. All this is provided to him at NO COST and we hope he will see the value of the local store service, knowledge and convenience to buy at a slightly higher price then eBay or the Internet. Maybe I should just fire all my salesperson and let them draw unemployment and let everyone else pay for them losing their job!

Anyway, what I have been doing is to ask the customer what price it will take to have them buy the unit today, and if they say match eBay price, then we say no problem, we will also match their service and just ship you a box and hold your money for a few weeks, maybe we will send them an open box with missing parts and if there is an issue, you deal directly with the factory, don't come back and expect to have a loaner unit or a brand new exchange unit waiting for you. You get to pay for shipping unit back and forth for warranty issues back to the factory yourself at an additional charge, and you get to wait 3-5 weeks for these issues to be resolve by the manufactures.

We all forget that we can't possibly do everything ourselves, if we did, then most restaurant, car wash, landscapers, building contractors, machinist, insurance agents, bankers etc will be all out of work and no one will be willing to invest in a company hoping that someone will come in and pay the price they need to stay in business and pay for the overhead.

This is probably the reason why more and more small companies is going out of business, not that they are not good businessman, but they are not making enough to pay their bills and it is easier to work for someone then to risk everything you have to own your own business. When is the last time you see a small hardware store, in my city, they are all gone because of Home Depot and Costco's! I mean small hardware business that has been in the area for 50-70 years are now gone due to the big box high volume stores that they can't compete with because of volume buying power.

I think I know what is going to happen in the next 10-20 years, we will all be able to buy things for much cheaper rate because they are all made in China. But guess what, we will not be able to afford these cheap prices because our jobs will be eliminated and we will all be collecting welfare or unemployment.

I know, it is not your problem because you have enough money not to worry, what about your kids and grand kids? It is and will be your problem if the general population in the U.S standard of living slips and more and more business is closed down because of people wishing to make money their GOD and save a dollar and not support their own country and small businesses.

Enough said, I am not going to worry, if I am in a good mood, I will sell a GPS unit lower then any eBay price, and if I don't feel like it, I will just tell the customer have a nice day without offering any information or demonstration and waste their time for coming down to the store, I wonder how they will feel about that!

 
ZagZyg  Posted on Jan 18 2006, 11:24 AMHave I done something to get up your nose?
No, I don't think so. I don't even know you. I assume you're another FJR owner/rider who enjoys discussing riding, and some of the maintenence aspects of, this motorcycle (w/out resorting to personal attacks)? :(
 
Changing a tire would be pure profit for the dealer.
Do you really believe that statement?
If it's pretty much pure labor, then yes.

Unless it prevents him from doing other jobs, the labor he would have to pay regardless, if the laborer would have been idle.
Not in flat rate shops.

 
Geezer<snip>Posted on Jan 18 2006, 09:42 AMyou can perform much of the maintenance on your FJR yourself.  It is also enjoyable.
I appreciate you comments -- but, that kind of thinking put the English motorcycle business in the dumper. I'm sure the last thing Yamaha wants is owners/riders working on their own 145HP, 150 MPH motorcycle. Actually, I feel that it's an industry embarrassment that we're even having this discussion. I recommend finding and only patronizing those 5-star dealers and shunning the others. (of course, it's the others who probably can sell the bike cheaper initially) but, that's another thread.....
Well, I did say that you should pay someone if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself. This machine, as sophisticated as the technology is, is still just a machine. Mostly mechanical and not magic. I enjoy doing the maintenence and upgrades on my bikes and would do so even if it didn't save money.

I also accept responsibility for my work. Guess that's another advantage of paying a good mechanic. Any liability for the work lays on his shoulders.

I don't understand your reference to the English motorcycle industry. My recollection is that Honda was selling more reliable and less expensive motorcycles and the British failed to update their technology to remain competitive. The same thing almost happened to the entire American auto industry in the 70's.

 
red2kcbr<snip>Posted on Jan 18 2006, 11:42 AMI do all routine maintenance on my motorcycles; always have.

I'll change to the Wilbers shock myself (oh, yeah) and I'll do the front fork springs and oil, also. I'll have some help. My son is a Chevrolet and Cadillac auto tech. We can handle this.
Well, good on you guys. But, I'll bet (by far) the majority of FJR riders aren't interested in doing their own work (and, I maintain, shouldn't be).
cmegafauna: I disagree with the notion of not working on your own bike at all. Seems silly. If I have the tools, knowledge, resources, and a work place, why not? I'll know it's done right. I'll save money.
Again, good on you guys. You must have the skills and resources to do proper work? I seriously doubt if that's universal?
Working on your own bike ain't what put the Brit bikes in the red. Building crappy bikes put the Brit bikes in the red.
True enuff! That, and total industry mis-management! And....the industry leaders really did think that the motorcylist liked nothing better than to dis-assemble his bike on Saturday in order to go for a ride on Sunday. :(
 
And....the industry leaders really did think that the motorcylist liked nothing better than to dis-assemble his bike on Saturday in order to go for a ride on Sunday. :(
When did that stop???

;)

 
I have a sad sad story. I bought my michelin pilot roads on the net. I took them to Dryer Motorsports here in Indy to have them put on. They put them on for 49 dollars a tire. When I got the bike back the front end of the bike shook like hell as you went through 80 mph. I took it back and said the balance was not too good. They checked it and said it was perfect that the tire may be bad. I called the place on the net and they shipped one pronto and a thingy to send the other tire back. I took the tire into Dryer and they swapped it out for another 49 bucks. I took it for a test drive and now it starts shakin at 90 mph. I drive right back and tell them the problem is still there. I get told they don't sell Michelins for that reason and they don't think they are a good tire. I still think the balancer is wacked so I ask if they have a different tire that is still good enough to use I want to test it. So they mount a Brigestone Battleaxe on and I go out for another test drive. It starts shakin at 95 and I'm wondering if its just a harmonic of this rim and it will go away if I push through it....My stock metzlers never shook at all....so I push her up to 130 or so and notice the vibes are not so noticable above 100... but the police car trying to catch me in my rearview noticed. At first I thought punch it he's too far back he'll never catch this wicked machine....then I thought I have a tire on the front I have not tried in high speed corners.....then I thought I'm going to jail my wife is going to kill me...then I pulled over. I explained to the officer what I was testing and why.....he yelled at me. He went back to his car and brought me a ticket for 65 in a 55. He explained if you have a CDL liscense for driving a school bus like mine and he gives me a ticket for 130 in a 55 my liscense would go bye bye. He says if I contest this ticket in court and he has to appear he will rewrite the ticket to actual. I say thanks for the mercy and he lets me go. I drive back to Dreyer and have them put the Michelin back on, I'm not much in the mood to fix this problem anymore, I test the tire on the way home it starts shaking at about 95 and quits at 110. The front tire on my bike from the internet has cost me about 350 dollars at this point. I may have a different place try to balance the tire before I head to WFO. Or maybe I need to take a weekend visit to one of you guys that has a balancer. Anyway certainly didn't save to much on internet tires.

 
Perhaps not pure profit Panther, but the last time a stealer changed tires for me...I brought the tires and wheels into the stealership. 15 minutes later I walked out with two mounted tires. $38.99 per tire plus 5% for shop supplies, plus $6.00 for weights. $88 plus tax total. I can get 4 car tires mounted and balanced for that much! And don't tell me the wrench is making $40 plus bennies/hour.

So for the last two tire changes on my bikes the stealer has gotten $0, nada, nothing. That should really boost his profit. He has also lost out on two helmets, riding jacket, two pair of gloves, helmet accessories, windshield, seat and backrest, oil(I change every 1,500 miles!), two sets of tires, bike cover, grips and other assorted trinkets and accessories. His profit is just soaring! It amazes me that instead of making 20% they would rather lose the sale and make 0%. I suppose if enough knuckleheads pay full list on everything they can keep volumes very low and profits high. Motoreamo just built a new store near us. I expect them to begin charging admission in the near future.

It's the free market! And I am all for that. I will allocate dollars to those that I think are providing the best value. :beee:

 
Perhaps not pure profit Panther, but the last time a stealer changed tires for me...I brought the tires and wheels into the stealership. 15 minutes later I walked out with two mounted tires. $38.99 per tire plus 5% for shop supplies, plus $6.00 for weights. $88 plus tax total. I can get 4 car tires mounted and balanced for that much! And don't tell me the wrench is making $40 plus bennies/hour.
So for the last two tire changes on my bikes the stealer has gotten $0, nada, nothing. That should really boost his profit. He has also lost out on two helmets, riding jacket, two pair of gloves, helmet accessories, windshield, seat and backrest, oil(I change every 1,500 miles!), two sets of tires, bike cover, grips and other assorted trinkets and accessories. His profit is just soaring! It amazes me that instead of making 20% they would rather lose the sale and make 0%. I suppose if enough knuckleheads pay full list on everything they can keep volumes very low and profits high. Motoreamo just built a new store near us. I expect them to begin charging admission in the near future.

It's the free market! And I am all for that. I will allocate dollars to those that I think are providing the best value.  :beee:
And the glove is returned. John, you never mentioned you had a balancer. Franks needin a new back Avon soon, ya think.......................?????????

 
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Perhaps not pure profit Panther, but the last time a stealer changed tires for me...I brought the tires and wheels into the stealership. 15 minutes later I walked out with two mounted tires. $38.99 per tire plus 5% for shop supplies, plus $6.00 for weights. $88 plus tax total. I can get 4 car tires mounted and balanced for that much! And don't tell me the wrench is making $40 plus bennies/hour.
OK, then. We're on the same page. And, I don't begrudge the dealer a profit. That's what he's in business for.

As for the comparison to car tires, I put four multi adjustable KONI sport shocks with adjustable spring perches on my GSX autocrosser for less than the price of the single Penske on my roadrace bike.

And, the M4 canister cost more than the entire cat-back exhaust on the GSX.

Why? Economy of scale and supply-and-demand.

It is what it is. I accept it as the cost of playin’ my toys.

(Of course, having my own shop with a Handi-lift, Coats 900, etc. and doin’ all my own work makes my perspective a bit different nowadays.)

 
I shall request their return from my brother who borrowed them Rad. Perhaps in Feb. when Craig and I spend the weekend in the garage installing our new CCS-100's and my PCIII we can include a tire change on Frank. :D

 
I can't say I blame them for the practice.  It's only gonna get worse, too.  In my industry, there is a sudden proliferation of on-line sources, especially in the plumbing and electrical trades.  Here's what happens:
[insert Charlie Brown adult-speak here: Wah wah WAH WAH wah WAH wah wah...]
So... what TWN is saying is don't try to install a faucet on your FJR and get a tire changer and balancer to do your own installations.
Uh, gee... Thanks for the sumation there, Peppermint Patty...

 
To sort of get back on topic of tire changes: I had a long talk with my dealer. They are good guys, I've bought a lot of bikes from them, and I'll buy my next one there, too.

I told them I would buy their tires, bring in my wheels, and let them mount and balance, if they could get within 10% of what I'm paying now for mail-order tires, my wheel-removal labor, and their mounting and balancing.

Know what? Can't do it. Or won't do it. Couldn't or wouldn't touch the mail order tire prices.

So what's the damage? A pair of Avons from SW Moto are about $225 delivered. Add $50 for mounting and balancing. That's $275. I would pay another 10%, or $27.50, for them to buy the tires, call me when they come in, and I'll bring in my wheels. Still wouldn't do it. I'm willing to pay around $300 for two new skins, mounted and balanced, and I'll remove and install the wheels. I'm not willing to pay more than that, so that leaves me where I am: mail-order tires and shop mount and balance. At $275 every 5,000 miles. Oh, well. I saved $27.50. I feel better already.

 
Just went back and checked my last Avon purchase from my dealer: $245.80 installed and balanced with me R/Ring the wheels. That includes all applicable taxes and old tire disposal fee...

 
Just went back and checked my last Avon purchase from my dealer: $245.80 installed and balanced with me R/Ring the wheels. That includes all applicable taxes and old tire disposal fee...
Won't ****** happen in the TC area that I know of, no way. If someone knows, they be keepin' it a secret. Dealers around here all have yachts an Lambo's an ****.

 
So what's the damage?  A pair of Avons from SW Moto are about $225 delivered.  Add $50 for mounting and balancing.  That's $275.  I would pay another 10%, or $27.50, for them to buy the tires, call me when they come in, and I'll bring in my wheels.  Still wouldn't do it.  I'm willing to pay around $300 for two new skins, mounted and balanced, and I'll remove and install the wheels.  I'm not willing to pay more than that, so that leaves me where I am:  mail-order tires and shop mount and balance.  At $275 every 5,000 miles.  Oh, well.  I saved $27.50.  I feel better already.
What's the damage? Right here.....when your dealer sells you two tires for $375 instead of the measly $225 you quoted.

THEN tacks on the mount/balance fees, tax, disposal fees, blah blah blah.

Lately I've noticed the dealers don't even attempt to discount tires, something with such a semi fast turnaround and repeat business. The dealer that sold you your FJR should have no reason NOT to keep the proper replacement tires in stock and ready to go.

Ya know, I learned a little bit about pricing in big chain electronics stores. Their golden word is "loss leader". This is the item that gets the customer into the store where the sharks, er.... "salespeople" take over. If motorcylce dealers treated their tire sales/mounting the same way, they'd end up with more sales in every category in the store. I know myself, if I feel like I just got a good deal from some place, I'm going back. First time I get screwed, I'm outa there.

I run a part time car audio business and go through the same thing every day. I'm limited to tacking on no more than $10-20 on a car stereo or the customer will immediately back out and buy internet. I couldn't get the $70-80 more that I SHOULD be getting, even if I stood on my head. If the dealers followed this same practice as far as tires ONLY, they wouldn't be crying as much. Again...it should be considered a loss leader, and an easy way to get a customer into the store.

The bottom line here is that it's a volume pricing world. Motorcycle dealers haven't realized that yet, and are in no hurry to change the way they do business.

The "Mom & Pop" mentality is long gone in business. They still look at the individual purchase, NOT the total potential for purchase.

Also, it's the big tire manufacturer's fault by allowing the big distributors to sell at such a price spread from what the dealer buys for. If the manufacturer just cracked down, the playing field would be a litle more even.

I don't blame anyone for trying to get the best deal out there on anything. The problem lies with the fact that they don't have a clue what the REAL best deal is. Most, if not all are dollar driven first. Big mistake.

BTW....I'm fortunate enough to have a friend close by that's an indepentant and only charges me $20 to mount /balance both tires.

If and when I lose him, I'll buy my own equipment and advertise locally to others.

But for now, it's just too easy. I left my dealer and his ridiculous prices behind long ago. If the price weren't so high, I'd have no problem staying with them instead.

 
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[sOAPBOX] Hot button topic for me :angry03: Seems the NE region’s dealers got together at a dealers meeting a few years ago to fight the online purchase cr@p. A dealer said this to me, Power Sports, Plaistow, NH. Roughly 60% won’t mount a tire if you didn’t buy it from them. The other 40% want between $60 and $75 per tire to mount and balance. If I buy tires on line I save roughly $120 to $150 over dealer cost. (Make sure your online purchases are not seconds or blems.) Add back the $75 per and I am back to dealer cost. What a coincidence. If I buy at full dealer cost I still have to pay $15 to $25 per for mount and balance. Tires require tools and equipment for mounting that most riders don’t have or don’t have the skill/ambition to take on. The dealers have really gone after this one. Makes me smell big time pork for the dealer’s bottom line. Makes me feel used. I think the dealers know that they have most riders by the gonads because of the mount/balance issue.

The year I discovered this new age of serving the motorcycling community I had no choice but to let one dealer rape me for $150 to mount my tires. Too bad, now he has lost my long time purchasing of other supplies and equipment. This dealer is only 6 miles from my house but I will drive 20 miles to buy from another more amenable independent shop. His one time payoff on the mount/balance has now cost him more in yearly ongoing business than he made on that one time tire profit. The dealers won’t discount, won’t negotiate. I have found an independent that will match on line prices and offers mount/balance for $15 per. It’s worth the drive and doesn’t leave my angry.

I understand dealers have many expenses, payroll, insurance, utilities, etc., etc. but why try to balance the parts and inventory ledger with this one product or the service on this product?

On the other hand, I have found that many dealers are willing to negotiate and often meet online prices on helmets and some other riding apparel. I wonder what the difference is between selling tires and helmets…

[/sOAPBOX]

 
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Won't ****** happen in the TC area that I know of, no way.  If someone knows, they be keepin' it a secret.  Dealers around here all have yachts an Lambo's an ****.
My dealer's rationale is simple. Keep me coming back. It's working, too. I could install my own tires, used to, but why when he does it for free?

Also, the local Harley dealer just started a tire promotion. "Buy a new Harley and receive FREE tires for as long as you own the bike." Dunno if that deal includes M & B, doubt it, but still...

 
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