WTF??

[twowheelnut]

On the other hand, I have found that many dealers are willing to negotiate and often meet online prices on helmets and some other riding apparel. I wonder what the difference is between selling tires and helmets…

You need tires. You want a new jacket. Too, I would think that there is more liability risk involved in the area of tires v. helmets for him simply because his labor is involved as well...

 

[Yambone]

I'll bet (by far) the majority of FJR riders aren't interested in doing their own work (and, I maintain, shouldn't be).

That's a fairly pretentious view. Sounds like you are intimidated by the prospect of working on this technological miracle rocket, which you should not be. One of the great features of the FJR is ease of maintenance.

By doing your own work comes understanding of WHY things work the way they do. This DIY approach also leads to the discussion of the various procedures, improvements, and farkles that are the very essence of this board. I'd say the vast majority are highly interested in taking on at least some of the maintenance and the farkles. When done, it is immensely satisfying. :agent:

 

[Yambone]

Here is the part that I can't understand why customers can't comprehend, buying a tire and bringing it to a shop is like buying your own steak and bringing it to a restaurant for them to cook...

04FJR4Me, I like that one! Every dealer has a right to take on this 'internet' tire change business or not.

For me, the best possible steak is cooked at home on my grill, and the best tire changes are now done in my garage! :agent:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

YambonePosted on Jan 18 2006, 08:30 PM<snip>That's a fairly pretentious view. I'd say the vast majority are highly interested in taking on at least some of the maintenance....This DIY approach also leads to the discussion of the various procedures, improvements, and farkles that are the very essence of this board. 

Pretentious? No, just my opinion....It may be pretentious, tho, to promote owners working on their bikes -- especially, operations not specifically covered in the Yamaha Owners Manual that came with the bike. I'll agree with the discussion being the essence of the board -- right up until the DIY part. Maybe? your talking about the majority of this board (and, even that I doubt) -- but, the majority of FJR owners.....sorry, I'm not with ya'.

 

[04FJR4ME]

I don't fault anyone for trying to save a dollar, and doing the work yourselves is probably the best way to go about saving a few dollars and making sure the work is done right.

As far as everyone keep searching for the best price possible to install tires, I guess that would be fair also.

What I am going to do is import a bunch of low skill day labor to change all your tires at $5 a piece, I will pay these guys $1 per tire to change them and we will all have the what we want, I can make 400% profit and you guys get to have your tire change for only $5 each with no warranty.

Oh, by the way, when the stealer shops and their employees is unemployed because I would have put them all out of business with my cheap day lover, don't worry about these guys, because they will be taken care of by our government, who cares if they don't buy insurance for their car or go out to eat at restaurants or stop buying computers etc, not our problems, let the insurance agents, computer companies and restaurants worry about that one. I am sure they can just let a few of their employees go and make up the lost of business. I wonder if those employees ride FJR's?

And for the one man shop that makes $10 above cost for stereos, that's great if you don't have employees or any overhead because you are working out of your home, but what about companies that have employees and inventory and insurance and benefits, well, we can always take away all the benefits and all work out of our house I guess.

It just keep getting better, and yes, it's o.k to save a few dollars, but our economy depends on the middle class citizens to spend money to keep our country rolling, and now it seems we only have one objective which is to save the mighty dollar at what ever cost. If you can't afford it, don't own the dam bike!

I always told my employees that it is not owning a Rolls Royce that cost, it is maintaining it, and if you can't afford to maintain your bike, then you should maybe think of becoming a motorcycle dealer and ROB everyone by making a bunch of profit and charging a bunch for installing tires! If everyone think it is so easy to be in business, then start your own business and make all the money that everyone thinks these stealer business is making.

I tell my employees if I make $100M for selling each Nav system at $1.00 over cost, I might be charging to much, but if I charge 10-30% over cost and I am not making enough to pay the overhead, then I am not charging enough!

Just find a forum member that owns his own tire changer and balancer, offer him $10 for helping you change your tires and make him all the money that you normally would give to these stealers right! Until the tire falls off and you find your friend don't have liabilty insurance!

The cost of doing business is not cheap, and until you own your own business, a real one, not working out of your home by yourself, you will never understand the cost of doing business.

What do I know, I been in business for 30 years and is my land investment that makes me the money and not my business.

Do everything yourself and pretty soon we won't have any dealers to take our bikes to when we don't know how to fix them.

"Every dealer has a right to take on this 'internet' tire change business or not."

Yeah, it's real fair for a real store with a store front and employee to take on someone that is working out of their home shipping tires out. He can make $5-$10 each on a tire and sell 20-40 tires on the internet a day and be happy with what he makes, but can a dealer support a real store with this type of profit margin paying employees and benifits?

 

[radman]

Just find a forum member that owns his own tire changer and balancer, offer him $10 for helping you change your tires and make him all the money that you normally would give to these stealers right! Until the tire falls off and you find your friend don't have liabilty insurance!
The cost of doing business is not cheap, and until you own your own business, a real one, not working out of your home by yourself, you will never understand the cost of doing business.

What do I know, I been in business for 30 years and is my land investment that makes me the money and not my business.

Do everything yourself and pretty soon we won't have any dealers to take our bikes to when we don't know how to fix them.

"Every dealer has a right to take on this 'internet' tire change business or not."

Yeah, it's real fair for a real store with a store front and employee to take on someone that is working out of their home shipping tires out. He can make $5-$10 each on a tire and sell 20-40 tires on the internet a day and be happy with what he makes, but can a dealer support a real store with this type of profit margin paying employees and benifits?

Tire falls off? Thats going a little far. Tire changing is about the biggest no brainer in vehicle maintanence. It's what we assign newbies in the business to, along with oil filter crushing etc. I have no problem with a fair profit, but this isn't a fair profit issue, it's a penalty charge for not buying the tires from the dealer. It boils down to this-if a dealer had a price even approaching internet prices (we pay shipping, add that to the dealers price and it improves the picture significantly on a $200 sale, 10-12%), I would buy. But they aren't even close. The dealers around here are, for the most part, hostile pricks who act as if they are there so I can ride-not as if I am here so they can have a business. If fewer people put up with that attitude, both in this issue and decent servicing of the machine, they might see me more often. I started wrenching on my own because of this, not in spite of it. These forums have indicated there are roughly 10 bad dealers for every good one, a guestimate, not based on any pure facts, but you get the point. Since the world isn't crawling with scoot dealers, even in major metro areas, they appear to think they can do as they please, and damn the public, "we're it, don't like it, go **** yourself". Well, I've always been a big fan of masturbation............

 

[Geezer]

Paying higher prices does not guarantee higher quality, and that applies to labor as well as goods and other services.

There is something to be said for supporting your local dealer, but it must be a two way arrangement where he charges fair prices for service and we accept that we must pay a little more for the convenience of having him there.

 

[Groo]

because I would have put them all out of business with my cheap day lover

James,

I'm really hoping that was a typo.... :blink:

 

[red2kcbr]

04FJR4ME, I see your point. I just don't agree with it. You said we should stop scrabbling after the 'mighty dollar'. We're in the same boat you are. You are bringing up valid points about the need to be prudent in business, pay your bills, compensate employees, all the trappings of running a business.

Well, take your own medicine. Radman hit the nail on the head. I need to be prudent, pay my bills, not waste my money. A bike shop doesn't have to make maximum profit on tires! Just make a reasonable profit. You don't have to pay the worker's comp bill from tire mounting charges! Or tire sales mark up.

I gave my shop an opportunity to hit my internet pricing PLUS 10%. Come on, ten percent. Where else do you find 10% return on investment? They can buy the tires from the same ******* discount place that I can, and mark it up 10%. They still get the same mounting fee. This is a no-brainer. They are making X now, and could be making X plus .10 times X. (That's more than X.)

So what's the problem? Using their credit card instead of mine? Maybe. Getting stuck for tires I ordered and don't take? Maybe, but not likely. I don't believe they've thought this through. Maybe I'll pitch this plan again, lol.

Or maybe I'll get a jim-dandy tire changer and balancer and do it my self!

Anyway, I still like these guys, and they do deal well on bikes. I paid $10,800 before TTL on my '05 FJR, non-ABS. That's a damn good deal. The '00 CBR929RR before that was $8,900. The '97 YZF600R before that was $5,400. All good deals. I send everyone I know that's shopping for a bike to this shop. My son bought a '03 CBR600RR new for $8,000. That bike was going for $8,600 list or higher in some parts of the country. Another good deal.

By the way, my definition of a good deal: both parties compromise a bit, both feel like a winner. I don't need a huge discount, but you gotta give me a little. I've walked away from car and bike deals before because the dealer wouldn't budge. Not for my money. I need to watch my mighty dollars.

 

[Penforhire]

10% is not enough adder for a brick-and-mortar business to compete. I let my dealer(s) get the business if they get within 25% over-internet-price (including shipment) from a 'legitimate' supplier.

My local dealer doesn't care where I buy the tires and doesn't even care where I bought the bike (service is separately managed I guess). But he charges, IIRC, about $110 to mount & balance a pair of tires (with me just handing over the whole bike).

 

[pr1]

ALL, I have read these posts and see there is much turmoil in this conversation. I guess it is all how you look at it and think about it. I certainly felt like the stealer was trying to steal from me when they said it would be $40 for the front and $60 for the rear and that was just for the tire change!!!!!!!! Then they proceeded to give me prices on the tires. Thats when I informed them I had my own..... and they said they wouldn't do it!! So they want me to pay premium price for the tires AND premium for the m/b. Thats what turned me off!!!!! You know,, I do have a mechanical background and all but if I can afford it I like to have that kind of work done by people who do it everyday. I know I am good at what I do at work and I depend on other professionals to handle areas that I don't neccessarily want to deal with. IN THIS CASE I GUESS I WILL LEARN QUICKLY HOW TO MAINTAIN MY MACHINE!!!!!!!!! I will be in the HUGE MOTORCYCLE LEARNING CURVE, and pray to God I don't kill myself or someone else from my ignorance in this arena. I will be in touch with you more experienced tire changers and service gurus.... Thanks for your help in advance.....................

 

[liquidbullet]

mawonline.com--go there!

 

[red2kcbr]

10% is not enough adder for a brick-and-mortar business to compete. I let my dealer(s) get the business if they get within 25% over-internet-price (including shipment) from a 'legitimate' supplier.

Pen, I don't get it. They can buy the tires at the SAME PRICE I buy them. I pay the same mount and balance. They upcharge me 10%. They are making 10% MORE than our current arrangement.

If the current arrangement is OK, why wouldn't current plus 10% be OK? Doesn't add up. Well, it adds up, but it doesn't make sense. You know what I mean.

Anyway, this is always an interesting topic. I don't mean to be an ******* about it. Well, not this time.

 

[ionbeam]

One thing forgot to mention in my rant back on page two -- the $150 to change a pair of tires was if I brought in the wheels. If I brought in my bike and had them remove the wheels is would have been $250. With service like that why would I ever want to come back? <_<

 

[GunMD]

...because I would have put them all out of business with my cheap day lover...

"When tire threads go bad." :haha:

 

[zzkenoman]

You should of told them you bought the tires from them earlier and waited until your treads had worn down to have them installed.

It is difficult when you live out in the country (especially in iowa) to get parts and accessories for your bike from your dealers without paying a premium. Until we have a site that is universally recognized by all dealers and accepts the same responsiblities and liabilities they do, we run our own risk. Thats why we have forums like this to ask before we throw away our hard earned cash, and the other good thing about being here is if you do have problems with a dealer, company, or any vendor , we'll just have to ask our riding brethern who live in the area to kick alittle :assasin: butt. :assasin:

 

[zzkenoman]

. h34r:

 

[Bounce]

I have a sad sad story.

Sure sounds like they're using an automatic balancer that out of calibration. I'd keep both Mich tires and get someone else to balance them for you (or do it yourself).

 

[04FJR4ME]

...because I would have put them all out of business with my cheap day lover...

Dam, you guys caught me, I must have been checking out the **** sites when I was typing my prior pos! :blink:

I guess you guys might not be aware of the actual cost of doing business and I can't fault you for this.

The example I can give is pretty simple, if you want someone to mow your lawn and you hire the kid next door and pay him $5 to do it, he is making all of the $5. But if you pay a Gardner to mow your lawn, $5 is not going to cover his fuel for his truck never mind feeding his family and paying for repairs.

What we are faced with these days is that no longer is business in the same playing field, we ALL have to compete work twice as hard and earn 50% less.

Here comes the guys that are out of work, he is going to start his own Internet business out of his garage, place order only when he receives them and direct ship to his customers, his cost? well, no rent, business lic, insurance including workers comp, no real liability, if something goes wrong like a bad tire that caused an accident, he moves and goes underground.

Now, he is happy if he makes $10-$20 per item, he sells 20-30 items a day, he is making more then he could working for someone.

Now, you wish to see the product you wish to buy, you want to talk to someone that knows the product, you want to visit a real store, what is his cost of doing business. You would know that 25% profit is really low for a real store, they need to make 45% profit to be able to make it in business. This is never going to happen so the business stays open longer, the owner put in hours and let a employee go to try to compete.

Hey, think 45% profit from $200? will this profit pay for ONE employee for the whole day of work waiting for a customer to come in to buy these tires? not really, never mind the profit, how many sets of tires will this store need to sell and install to pay for the rent, insurance, benefits etc so you the customer can enjoy the benefit of having such a service provider? So, maybe the benefits for the employee is going to get taken away, the pay raised is over looked because the store is not able to pay his bills and so on.

I am not saying saving money is wrong, but for some reason, we don't find sending all of our customer support, engineering work to India and all the hardware manufacturing to China is such a great idea because of all the jobs that is being lost here in the U.S, but we are the very same people that patronize Costco, Home Depot, Wal-mart! So, we are doing it to ourselves are we not? Don't expect your children and grandchildren's to have a customer support, engineering or manufacturing job and make a decent living, because those jobs are being done by people that are willing to take $1 an hour or less.

So, before you judge how much someone else should make, look at yourselves in the mirror and ask how much you are worth. Hey, I will let you come to mow my lawn all days long for $5, but are you willing to do it?

I guess what I am trying to get across, we are always over paying someone, but when it comes to ourselves, we are never paid enough! How is this possible?

What do you think? I will let you make 10% on the steak I wish you to cook for me, so come over and buy the steak and make sure it is cooked right and I will not get food poisoning, and I will be happy to let you make that extra $1 profit for all your hard work!

Now, why is it fair for a restaurant waiter to make 15-18% tip and for a business, they have to make less then 10%?

Why is it fair that an attorney or a realtor can make thousands of dollars of net profit from a customer yet for a store owner that invested their life savings to RISK an opportunity to do better to only make what they can make investing in land or putting their saving in a foreign bank account?

You all forgot that you have to add the owners time along with the investments they put in when calculating the 10% profit margin. Does the owner deserves to make at least the same wage as any of his employees while managing the business?

Enough said, I am not trying to change everyone's mind, just voicing my opinions like always. Sorry for keeping this going for so long.

 

[Bounce]

Paying someone a reasonable profit for goods and services is not unreasonable. It's up to the customer to determine what they consider "reasonable" and this is usually directly related to disposable income. For some people, time is more available than money. When this happens changing your own tires is within their definition of "reasonable".

No "owners" plea to understand that X% markup is reasonable or he can't stay in business will ever change this in spite of how valid they feel their position is.

And, sure, the cost of a bike is it's purchase and maintenance cost. However, to someone who so desires, that cost can be greatly reduced when they have the skills to do their own work (or at least the routine tasks).

An "owner" that laments the fact that there are people out there with basic shop skills is wasting their breath. This would be a perfect example of where the home mechanic would clearly be justified in quoting Ben Franklin; "A fool and his money are soon parted."