WTF??

[tripletango]

So I call the Dealer in Corpus Christi to get a 4k service and tire change done.... I bought the tires online,,, guess what they told me-- "We don't install tires that weren't purchased here, its a liability thing". Anyone ever heard of that?? Thats a first for me.... But thats the price one pays for living in the middle of nowhere I guess...... <_<

There are dealers in Dallas that will not service bikes unless bought from them!

 

[MCRIDER007]

I buy my tires from www.swmototires.com, and take them, along with the dismounted wheels to a local non franchise Auto Repair store that is run by a motocycle enthusiast who has all the right equipment, and changes them for $15 each, with balancing.

I wish he had a store where I live, it would have done wonders for my blood pressure last summer.

 

[dcarver]

Used to be a motorcycle tire and install only kind of place in the LA area. They always had great prices on tires and experienced folks doing the balance / install.

Too bad they too went under.

They even had a service of eliminating the chicken strip on new tires so wannabe ricky-roadracers wouldn't be embarrased.

 

[Windjammer]

Hey, I am just having fun here, don't take things to seriously, it is a motorcycle forum, but it's fun just to be able to post our believes and view point is it not?

Agreed. Although I disagree with you on the basic issue here, that's OK. Each to his own.

The only question I have is when does a business owner or a business become a stealer from a good average U.S company? If they own more then one home, more then one car, more then one motorcycle? When does an honest businessman becomes a stealer for being sucessful in what they do? at what point does it happen? if they own more or have more then their customers than they are labeled a stealer?

I think you've missed my point. I hold no grudge against those who are successful. Quite the opposite is true - I admire them. A dealer becomes a stealer not because they make money, but because they do so by cheating their customers. There's a big difference between making an honest living with a fair profit, and using unethical business practices to rip off your customers. A dealer who's not a stealer gives quality products and service at market rates. That's all I ask, yet it's so difficult to find. Instead, I get incompetent service at top shelf rates and parts prices that are not even in the ballpark.

Many of your comments relate to the GPS market and I have no way to dispute them, since I'm not in that business. But as someone who works in sales, I can tell you this. A new customer is always suspicious of anyone who tries to sell them something - they're afraid of getting ripped off. They will be very focused on price at first, and it is your job to ask them questions, find out what's important to THEM, and then show them how your product and service meets their needs. If you're friendly, professional, and know your stuff, it is often the case that they will become less interested in price, and more interested in how YOU can meet their needs. Try taking a trip to www.gitomer.com - I am not affiliated with this guy, but he has a lot of good info to help those who work in sales. You'll prolly never win 'em all, but it's possible to win more.

 

[Bluebullet]

Sure sounds like they're using an automatic balancer that out of calibration. I'd keep both Mich tires and get someone else to balance them for you (or do it yourself).

Bounce, I agree.

 

[Shane]

@MCRIDER007,

I am fed up with all of it and am going to start mounting my own tires even if I never will recover the up front costs.

Depending on how much you choose to spend in tools/equipment, it's not unusual to recoup costs in just a couple of changes.

Shane

 

[04FJR4ME]

Many of your comments relate to the GPS market and I have no way to dispute them, since I'm not in that business. But as someone who works in sales, I can tell you this. A new customer is always suspicious of anyone who tries to sell them something - they're afraid of getting ripped off. They will be very focused on price at first, and it is your job to ask them questions, find out what's important to THEM, and then show them how your product and service meets their needs. If you're friendly, professional, and know your stuff, it is often the case that they will become less interested in price, and more interested in how YOU can meet their needs. Try taking a trip to www.gitomer.com - I am not affiliated with this guy, but he has a lot of good info to help those who work in sales. You'll prolly never win 'em all, but it's possible to win more.

Thank you for your advise, I appreciate what you have said and I feel providing service is what my little company is trying to do for customers that NEEDS this type of attention and assistant. We do get the customers that come in and play with the units, ask a bunch of technical question and go buy it on the web to save the tax. These customers are like stealers to us business owners since they feel no obligation for our time and demo inventory, it is a GOD given right for these freeloaders to come in and take up our time and play with our units because it does not cost ANYONE anything Right? If I sound a bit frustrated, it is because I am. I have now placed our demo units under glass displays and we now qualify customers prior to investing time in demonstration and comparing units for customers. Why is this, because our salesman's like to earn a living also, and when a customer waste our time and not even offer us a chance to meet the Internet price because we can't beat the State Sales tax, we tell them, it's o.k, let us hold your money for a few weeks, ship it to you when we have the unit available, and if there is a problem, don't bring it back to our store because you will have to deal with the factory yourself. Bad attitude, I guess so and there are to many reasons why these attitudes develops.

Now, a guy that earns $10 an hour would say most guys that are earning $25 an hour maybe over paid, and the guy that makes $25 an hour may feel the guy that is making $100 an hour is over paid. and for someone that is making a Million or more a year, there maybe lots of people think they are overpaid and must be ripping people off because what makes the guy that makes a million dollar a year so much better then the guy making $10 an hour. Now my question is where does your income level come in? If you make more then $1 an hour, some people in a third world county may think you are over paid because they will probably do more for less. My point is that how much over the cost of a product a stealer have to charge to be a stealer? Some feel that 5-10% is more than fair, yet we know doing business at a real store, that percentage will not pay the rent never mind the salary and everything else that is associated with it. So I just have to ask, does it matter how much expense these stealers have when they over charge you guys? Or will it be fair before these guys are labeled stealers to audit their books to see if they fit in the $10, $25, $100 per hour or even a Million dollar bracket before we rate them a stealer, where do we fit in and are we consider stealers because we take advantage of merchants that have to sell for less to stay in business?

I think a stealer is someone that get something for nothing or someone that takes advantage of a company that is willing to lose money to sell products.

There are many Internet stores that will be happy if they make $5 per product they sell if they sell 100-1000 products a day and they have no overhead but shipping cost. But for the rest of the real business owners, it is not possible to hold that type of profit margin to stay afloat. So, as some have said, there are cheap good business that goes out of business because they don't understand that doing business is much more then being the cheapest but to be smart enough to make earn you a profit without getting put out of business. But then again, you will be a stealer if you are making any type of reasonable profit on your investments.

Just had a extra few minutes of time to play with this forum, nothing serious, just trying to see if some of you can see both sides of the story. I hope everyone knows I am just stirring up stuff so the forum have some action besides the same old things. What else can we mess with next? :bleh:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

MCRIDER007  Posted on Jan 22 2006, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (Skippy @ Jan 22 2006, 03:30 PM)<snip>

.... store that is run by a motocycle enthusiast who has all the right equipment, and changes them for $15 each, with balancing.

I wish he had a store where I live, it would have done wonders for my blood pressure last summer.

dcarver  Posted on Jan 22 2006, 10:16 PM<snip>  Used to be a motorcycle tire and install only kind of place in the LA area. They always had great prices on tires and experienced folks doing the balance / install.

Too bad they too went under.

A little story: Once, on a long ride I stopped in a small town in W.VA to do laundry at a local laundromat. While waiting for my clothes, I walked around and noticed that the owner had put up on the wall (in a frame w/glass cover) his yearly financial statement for the laundromat -- w/profit/loss, etc. Well, after reading that, I kinda felt sorry for the poor guy and felt that the dollar (or so?) per wash wasn't probably enough. According to his posted financials, he certainly wasn't making a killing. In a related story -- there was once a big m/c shop in a big U.S. city that ran big ads and was very busy and, apparently, successful. One year they closed. I asked around and, eventually, found that the owner (not a motorcyclist, just a businessman) felt that he could get a better return on his dollar elsewhere -- and that's exactly what he did. Dealers? If we could "walk a mile in their shoes...."?

 

[yamahlr]

I have to throw my 2 cents on this one. I try to buy from local vendors if possbile when their price is on par or a bit more. I am willing to do so even more if I will need info ro service after the sale. I'm beginning to look for a GPS and looked toward the company owned by FJR4ME first because of the trust I have in fellow riders/owners here. Since I know also nothing about gps, I need someone I can trust to guide me. That knowledge is not free. I do think though when a dealer charges 3X as much for an oil filter, he becomes a stealer. I also don't buy the line of the high overhead of a brand new building, when the old building did just fine. It's not to say a better equipped shop and well trained personnel should be reflected in the shop labor rate, it should, providing they techs actually know how to use the new equipment.

Not to speak for others, but I believe that most will pay a bit extra for knowledgable product and customer service and well trained tech who treat your stuff w/ respect. I'm also ready to put my$$ where my mouth is.

 

[Windjammer]

We do get the customers that come in and play with the units, ask a bunch of technical question and go buy it on the web to save the tax. These customers are like stealers to us business owners

I agree 100%. When someone comes to your store with no intent other than to pick your brain, waste your time, etc. while knowing full well they have no intent to buy, it's dishonest. One caveat tho - their mere presence offers you a sales opportunity to change their mind. You've done the right thing, IMO, by putting the product under glass and qualifying them. In fact I'd almost consider not marking prices either. Maybe they could more easily see the light from a service and support perspective if price was not in the way at first.

My point is that how much over the cost of a product a stealer have to charge to be a stealer? Some feel that 5-10% is more than fair, yet we know doing business at a real store, that percentage will not pay the rent never mind the salary and everything else that is associated with it. So I just have to ask, does it matter how much expense these stealers have when they over charge you guys?

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, it's not about $ per hour. I'm not jealous if they make more money than me. I've long ago accepted that I will make less than some, more than others. No big deal. To me it's about percentages. Most businesses need to mark-up products about 50-75%, maybe as much as 100% from wholesale in order to cover their legitimate business expenses and earn a fair profit. To me, a stealer is someone who gouges me by marking something up 150% or more, not because they need the money to stay afloat, but because they think the customer is too stupid to figure it out and they want to take advantage of that. Perfect example is a car dealer who recently charged me over $10 per spark plug when I brought my car in for a tune-up. Went to the net and found the exact same OEM part number for under $2.50 from another dealer of the same brand of car, who happens to sell parts online. Obviously they were making SOME profit, so their cost was less than $2.50. That means my guy hit me for over 400% - a stealer to whom I shall never return.

From the service side, MC dealers charge a shop rate. Some are a little higher than others. Here I define stealing not by whether they're $10 or $15 higher than the next shop down the road, but by the fact that they provide me with an absolutely horseshit level of service for my money. They promised me one thing (quality service) and delivered something else (shit service), and then when I call them on it they lie or make excuses to get out of having to make it right. Stealers!

But then again, you will be a stealer if you are making any type of reasonable profit on your investments.

Well, that's not what I've been saying. I've been pretty clear all along that I have no problem with reasonable profit. The trick is in defining the term reasonable. I've given my definitions above. Maybe others will chime in with theirs.......

On a side note, I heard an interesting story on the radio today that made me think of this thread. They were talking about how the credit card companies charge internet retailers MUCH higher fees compared to brick and mortar outfits, while offering them no protection at all from theft - if someone uses a stolen card and the charge is denied, the internet retailer is stuck holding the bag. So maybe they don't get to have it ALL their way.

 

[04FJR4ME]

When someone comes to your store with no intent other than to pick your brain, waste your time, etc. while knowing full well they have no intent to buy, it's dishonest. One caveat tho - their mere presence offers you a sales opportunity to change their mind. You've done the right thing

Been their and done that, what happens here is that we have a 8.25 sales tax that we have to compete with the Internet, this is not profit so even when we can match the Internet price, we are still about 8.25% higher then what a customer can buy from the Internet due to sales tax. So if the bottom line is what is the cheapest a customer can buy a GPS unit for, it would be from the Internet, and I guess I do what most Stealers do regarding repairs and testing. We offer FREE diagnoses for minor repairs for units that is purchased from us, and we even go as far as dealing with the factory for our customers and paying the shipping cost and lending a GPS unit when our customer unit is being repaired. If a customer brings a unit in that needs service or repair but purchased it elsewhere from the Internet, we charge them for this service and no loaner and full handling and processing charges for S/H. By the way, most GPS manufactures has adopted a warranty process that if a customer purchased a unit from a NONE authorized dealer, there is NO warranty for the product because the product could be stolen, gray market or used resold as new.

In fact I'd almost consider not marking prices either. Maybe they could more easily see the light from a service and support perspective if price was not in the way at first.

Funny you should mentioned this, this is exactly what we do, NO MORE price display in the store for most products! Why? Well to start with, we no longer will offer our everyday store prices to the public, what we ask now is "What price does it have to be TODAY for us to EARN your business?", we will also reassure them the extra service we provide that is not available from the internet. If they offer us a price we can live with, we accept it, and if they offer us a price below our cost, we just say thank you and we are sorry that we can meet your expectation. We no longer make public our store prices so customer can price match us from another store. We just do our best to sell what we have for a reasonable price and hope the customer will accept this as a good faith attempt to earn their business.

Perfect example is a car dealer who recently charged me over $10 per spark plug when I brought my car in for a tune-up. Went to the net and found the exact same OEM part number for under $2.50 from another dealer of the same brand of car, who happens to sell parts online

I would agree with you and I have the same experience with having my boat service by a shop, long ago, I can buy plugs at a $1 and they charged me $12 and I thought wow, these guys are making a fortune on me. I could have service my boat myself but I like to spread the wealth and for once I thought I am getting ripped off! So I asked what gave them the right to charge so much since I use to own a shop myself and I know the true cost of the plugs. The Boat repair shop told us that it is a seasonal job and they have to make in 6 - 9 months on what we make in 12 months, their rent, insurance, employees still get pay and it is a matter of survival that they need to make a profit large enough to carry them through the winter months. Seasonal business is very difficult to operate and survive the competition from the net that does not have to compete with service and parts, but only parts.

Well, I found my friend in the sheet metal trade have the same type of problem, they get paid very well but guess what, they get laid off a lot and the pay have to keep his family feed for all year round, I use to think that sheet metal worker is over paid because I ask what makes a sheet metal journeyman so much better then a automotive repair journeyman? Until I found out that automotive repair tech's are less likely to be laid off compare to sheet metal workers.

I heard an interesting story on the radio today that made me think of this thread. They were talking about how the credit card companies charge Internet retailers MUCH higher fees compared to brick and mortar outfits, while offering them no protection at all from theft - if someone uses a stolen card and the charge is denied, the Internet retailer is stuck holding the bag.

Well, I sell on the Internet also to make up for my loses, and most of our Internet sale comes from NY, FL, TX etc, we are all hoping for an answer of how to separate legitimate businesses compare to guys that are working out of their apartment with a laptop and is here today and gone tomorrow. I just got took on eBay not because I was trying to look for the best price but the part I needed was not available at my local stores, so I found one, ordered it and guess what, no reply and they took my money! So if more of this type of stuff happens, legitimate brick and mortar stores may stand a chance. Meanwhile, I think we both understand each other point.

 

[gasportrider]

Whoah!! Stepping into this thread is like jumping into the Briar Patch. I just wanted to put in a plug for SWmototires.com. I give them two thumbs up for great pricing and fast shipping. SWmoto and UPS got my tires to me in 3 days from the date of order and from Tucson to Atlanta. I got Dunlop Roadsmarts at the best price that I saw anywhere. Hooray!!

Bike maintenance and tire changes have been a part of my recreational bike involvement for years. I've saved thousands of dollars with a small investment in tools and ALWAYS a current shop manual. The few times someone else has turned a wrench on my bike, several bolts and nuts were overtightened. That really pissed me off. I invited the mechanic out to my home to remove the bolt with the stripped recessed hex head. Maybe he won't screw up another caliper bolt!

Enjoy spinning your own wrenches and have the confidence that things are done right. The money saved is secondary to the satisfaction and peace of mind.