Zumo 660 first impressions

[bramfrank]

My buddy handed me a box containing *my* Zumo 660 - apparently one of the first units delivered outside of the AMA program. Couldn't be THE first, since he has 3 bikes and had one suctioned to his windshield. Such are the perks accorded to the person who owns Garmin's largest Canadian distributorship and the 9th (or so) largest in the world.

I'm starting this thread with a view to documenting my impressions of the product - I will eventually post a distilled version of this on Epinions, where I have a series of GPS reviews published . . .

The first impression I got was that this thing is LARGE. LARGE in the sense that the new 1400 series Nuvis are VERY thin. This thing has a HUGE bezel and is very thick. Also, the screen is less readable than my Zumo 550 - Garmin *did* something. Of note is that except for the shiny screen, the 276c and it's cousins still take the award for the most readable displays in direct sunlight. Those also have the sharpest and most configurable displays as well!!!

Second; No big RETURN button to back you out to the map screen. I'll miss that.

Third. There is no lock. The unit cannot be locked to the bike - no security screw. That means that it MUST be removed whenever I park the bike and leave it in a public space. I had the Zumo 550 screwed to the bracket and RAM's locking knob to keep anyone from casually removing it from the bike . . . no more.

The display itself is similar to the widescreen automotive units and the navigator is rectangular, so it will sit flat on a table and can be put in a pocket without a bulge - a plus.

The unit is FAST. About twice as fast as the Zumo 550 and current generation Nuvis. While you couldn't outdrive the device - heck you couldn't outdrive a Streetpilot 3 - POI and address searches and route calcuations are much faster.

Another thing is that the unit has a speaker onboard. Zumo 550 had a speaker on the car mount only - so this is more Nuvi-like in that regard.

The fuel gauge feature can be disabled on the 660 - this is nice because it was pretty arbitrary. Though the byproduct of enabling it is that it will prompt you to fill up and offer nearby gas stations without having to push all the soft keys to manually initiate a search.

Missing from this unit is the 'find my vehicle' feature whereby the navigator will create a temporary waypoint when you remove the unit from the cradle which can then be used to guide you back to where you left your car or bike - come on Garmin, you're making us remove the device, why not give us the 'find my vehicle' feature as a consolation prize?

New on the Zumo 660 is the fact that the two data boxes are configurable. The last time I had that ability was on the 276c . . . unfortunately, the list of variables is very short and, while I haven't tried yet I suspect that the indicators likely get transformed into expected arrival time and perhaps 'time to next turn' indicators . . . yechh

More as I play with it.

 

[Niehart]

Thanks, keep us in the loop as you get more time & miles on it.

 

[bramfrank]

Day 2

While I have yet to install the 660 on my bike, I did suction it to the windshield of my car and drove around with both my Nuvi 780 and Zumo 660 (with an MSN Direct receiver plugged into it).

Mention of the MSN Direct receiver reminds me that I have to point out that there is NO XM support in this device. I don;t use it, but you might. Maybe the Zumo 680 will have that.

The car mount

The car mount is pretty much the same as the old Nuvis 6x0 and 7x0 series except that you need 2 hands to get it off because unlike the quick-relase Nuvis, the contacts are on the rear and the release button is on the side. Where the Nuvis allowed you to simply reach up and press the top button and pull the unit toward you, the Zumo 660 makes you depress a sideways button while doing the same - not intuitive.

Zumo's car mount has a USB connector and a more traditional Nuvi stye power connector. My MSN Direct and traffic receivers are power cord versions and they all work fine. But Zumo also has a USB connector in the mount. I suppose it is for the alternative style traffic & MSN receivers. The bike wiring harness also has a USB connector -however neither is used to connect to a computer. For that you need to remove the battery cover - the only REAL USB connector is under that cover.

Internal speaker & audio connections

The speaker on the 660 is somewhat muffled by comparison with Nuvi. I suppose that it is because iit has to be waterproof - and thus plastic, which reduces high frequency response.

There is a 3.5 mm stereo connector on the side of the device itself and there is a microphone jack on the vehicle mount.

If you want to wire Zumo to your car audio system you will be unplugging the audio out cable from the unit each time - there are numerous pins on the rear face and certainly some of them carry audio (because of the way the bike cradle is designed), why couldn't they put the audio output jack on the cradle instead of putting it (with a rubber cover) on the right side of the unit? I'm not planning on using the navigator as a portable MP3 player, partly because battery life is relatively short so I (for one) do not need an onboard headset jack - besides, this thing has Stereo Bluetooth. If I wanted to use it that way I could just get a Bluetooth Stereo headset!!!

Mapping

Maps are maps. But the Zumo display has a lot more information than my Nuvi 780 - graphic for the upcoming turn; a compass pointer; a button to select between normal view and traffic view and more.

But where the 660 REALLY falls down is that there are two nasties;

1. The unit has 'auto zoom'. It constantly zooms in and out dependent on your rate of travel. Frankly it is pretty disconcerting, especially because they removed the scale designator from the screen - there is no apparent way to disable it. Nuvi also has Auto-Zoom, but it seems a lot more pronounced on the Zumo 660.

2. More insidious is that they've removed several layers of road detail from the unit. So when you zoom out you lose street level detail way too early. In the the 'most' detailed view the Zumo 550 showed streets pretty much as a thatch of roads. Nuvi 780 can zoom out two extra presses of the buttion more than Zumo 660. Frankly this is a real disappointment because I like to ride with the zoom level set to the farthest out I can and still see local streets and roads, in case there's something interesting to ride and check out - that isn't far on the Zumo 660.

They'd better fix that one in a release 'real soon now'.

Bluetooth

It sucks. Ok, my phone isn't one that they like much at Garmin, but it works just fine with the Nuvi (sort of). But the Zumo just shuts down after downloading about 200 of my 586 contacfts - and it tries to have the phone (a Nokia N95-4) send the contacts with every connection. I doesn;t try with the Nuvi and didn't with the Zumo 550.

Interesting enough I never had that issue with either the Nuvi 780 of the Zumo 550 - I CAN get the phone to connect without sending contacts, but then it simply says 'unknown caller' when the phone rings - it DOES log the nmber in the Zumo's call history.

I've been told that this problem is because Garmin switched Bluetooth chip providers.

I don't care WHY it happens. I just need it to work properly.

Again . . . more as I play with it.

 

[dsmack]

Hmmmmm, I somehow sense this is not going well for the new ZUMO.

Your friend, the distributor will be disappointed, I'm sure... nearly as badly as you, eh?

You have to wonder if the folks at GARMIN even talk to folks in the field who are using their products?

My last experience with them was with an old GARMIN 195 that I used in my aircraft. From about that time, GARMIN began chasing what the marketing folks told them was "hot" at the moment, and lost sight of what is really important to the end user... I wonder who makes the final call on which features make it into production, and which previously well received items are left on the "cutting room floor"?

Thanks for the detailed report, bramfrank. It really helps to have someone who cuts through all the marketing hype and tells it as it is for the end user!

:drinks:

Don

 

[2006FJR]

I am not having some of the same issues you are having. The bluetooth feature worked perfectly with both my wifes phone and my phone. I too am using the unit daily in my car and have spent the last week using it becuase I am in my car 8 hours a day for work. The difference between your situation and mine is that I have no experence with any other GPS ever and this is my first. It was easily wired to my wifes Vespa scooter, my FJR and the car. I just needed to buy another craddle to mount on the Vespa. At speeds under 50 we can use the unit to talk when we are riding and she thought that was pretty cool.

I love having lane assist and it really is helpful is setting you up long before you need to merge. The battery power does not last very long when it is not being charged! The touch screen is nice and VERY CLEAR! During the night is changes colors so it is easier to see but I am sure that is likely an option that all do. I did not like spending this much money on a GPS but now that I am using it I am glad I bought it. XM was never something I really cared about but a large screen was a must so the 660 stood out for me.

 

[bramfrank]

As I head into day 3, there's been a firmware release (V 2.8), but the unit doesn't seem to want to take it . . . It is being e-mailed to me

But . . . someone else pointed out the same thing to me in a PM that 2006FJR did above - this is their first experience with a Navigator. I've had about 25 of them over the years because of my access to units, so my views are perhaps jaded where those of the first time user would not be so constrained.

That doesn't excuse the shortcomings, mind you.

There ARE good things about the unit. Lots of them. But I EXPECT there to be good things (especially at this price point), so the shortcomings stick out . . . . I'll get to them at some point once I've experienced the unit more fully.

Having said that, Bluetooth should not be an issue, the way that it is with some Garmin units. Several firmware releases for the older Parrot chipset were disasters. The current one for Parrot has issues too - I'm running the previous release in the Nuvi (for stability) and whatever is current in the Zumo. I also pointed out the DIFFERENCE between how my N95 interacts with the two units and my expectations.

As to screen sharpness; If you ever saw a 276/376/378/478 you'd be spoiled for life. And if you needed a large screen the 5000 is probably one of the largest automotive navigators out there - not bike friendly, mind you. but BIG. The replacement for the 276 series is also well endowed. Check out the GPSMAP 640 with it's 5.2 inch screen. It is a bike friendly unit in the genre of the marine/automotive unit it replaces, with a huge 5.2" ultra high res touchscreen - no MP3 player; No Bluetooth, but with XM support and full mapping.

I have an important meeting this morning, but I plan to get the navigator bolted on to the bike today for my first on-road triels . . . . because I already have a stem nut with RAM ball, I only have to tip up the tank to run the wiring.

Oh and one other observation while I knock this out before starting my day;

Nuvis have been fauilted for announcing turns somewhat too late. . . . for it's faster processor, I note that most often Zumo 660 announces turns about 1-3 seconds LATER than the Nuvi that people have issues with. I suppose if you don't have an audio system it won't make a difference, but why can't they simply advance the turn messages by 100 meters or so or simply make it a selectable feature (early/late turn announcements)?

 

[DailyCommuter]

My buddy handed me a box containing *my* Zumo 660 - apparently one of the first units delivered outside of the AMA program. Couldn't be THE first, since he has 3 bikes and had one suctioned to his windshield. Such are the perks accorded to the person who owns Garmin's largest Canadian distributorship and the 9th (or so) largest in the world.

Ah-Hemmm.... Group buy?!?

 

[MEM]

Ah-Hemmm.... Group buy?!?

Too late for me. Mine just arrived. I'm afraid to open it .....

But I'm with 2006FJR. I'm a GPS virgin so nothing to compare to - good OR not so good!

 

[bramfrank]

Ah-Hemmm.... Group buy?!?

Too late for me. Mine just arrived. I'm afraid to open it .....

But I'm with 2006FJR. I'm a GPS virgin so nothing to compare to - good OR not so good!

Hey Mary Ellen;

Open the box - getting the battery cover open with the battery not there isn't easy - they didn't mould in a detent for your fingernail. But once you get the battery in (leave the cover OFF), install the software, go online, register the unit and update the software (if you don't already have V2.8 installed - the webupdater knows) . . . . You also get to update the mapping to 2010 (OK, it''s only 2009, so Garmin got a bit ahead of themselves).

Like I said, the unit works well, it's just that there are a fair number of 'nits'.

You'll do fine.

Install it, Ride a bit with it to acclimate and and enjoy the trip.

By the way, I got mine on the bike. It took about 40 minutes to pass the cables and wire it up to my underseat fuse block.

The umbilical is long enough via the stem nut mount (leaving a fair amount of slack to there are no sharp bends in the cable) to get everyting except the USB connector for the traffic/MSN receiver comfortably into the tool tray . . . that's also where my Autocom is. Since I am not planning to buy an MSN or traffic receiver for this unit, leaving it under the tank on top of the insulating blanket is just fine . . . for me. Others may not be so satisfied.

 

[2006FJR]

You are going to love the 2 hour download! I could not beliee how many downloads it needed for a new product?

 

[bramfrank]

Ah-Hemmm.... Group buy?!?

I don't think he can do US sales. It's a territory issue. But as Mary Ellen knows, he can certainly help in Canada (even if circumstannces were such that she couldn't avail herself).

 

[bramfrank]

You didn't think I was done complaniing, did you?

There's more;

I was perusing the ZumoForums web site and someone was complaining about screen detail, so I started writing a reply, which naturally grew into a rant (how come no one here is surprised by that?). It occurred to me that there are a couple of items I have yet to mention, having spent some road time with the device.

The Zumo 660 does not include the 550 feature that allowed sending phone audio only over bluetooth. So, if you have a Zumo 550 and are using the Autocom Bluetooth Dongle for phone audio through your intercom, you will be disappointed.

The unit SOMETIMES asks me whether I'd like to switch modes from Bike to Car as I switch between brackets. Why 'sometimes' I have yet to determine, but the reality is that the unit should be able to switch between handheld, bike, car and scooter modes automatically - there should be a setup screen to let you define what mode the unit is in based on whether it is in one of the brackets or not in any bracket. The screen would be simple;

Automatic - on/off

Auto bracket - Car, Bike, Pedestrian, Scooter

Bike bracket - Car Bike, Pedestrian, Scooter

No bracket - Car, Bike, Pedestrian, Scooter

How hard would it have been to replicate ALL of the various settings based on operating mode? They do differentiate between bike and car for a number of the parameters, but not *all*. Why not? I'm not complaining about this, just suggesting.

By the way, apparently the bracket is 'active' in that it communicates with the navigator. Why not give the bracket a serial number so that, along with selecting modes based on bracket type, those of us with more than one bike or car (for example) might have different setups for each vehicle? This is just a suggestion for a new feature, not an actual complaint.

Now for the big one of the day;

With my original Zumo 550 (can't say whether it does it under the most recent firmware since I've gotten rid of it) and with ALL my Nuvis, and with my I and C series, my 276, my 2600 and 2700 series units, my old Streetpilot and so on the device displayed the names of upcoming streets as I drove or rode along. The name would change as I passed each street, telling me the name of the upcoming street - and every so often they tell me what street I'm driving on.

This is extremely useful, especially if you are NOT actively navigating, but are following directions. Turn on 'oisdpjuihi street' is made much simpler if the street name is shown on screen, no?

Well my other navigators did it, but the Zumo 660 does not. THIS IS A BIG ONE.

If I had to choose, my top 3 complaints at this stage, in order of decreasing importance is;

FIX THE BLUETOOTH

Display street names

Give us a 'MOST' button for map detail.

The rest are close behind.

 

[2006FJR]

The Zumo 660 does not include the 550 feature that allowed sending phone audio only over bluetooth. So, if you have a Zumo 550 and are using the Autocom Bluetooth Dongle for phone audio through your intercom, you will be disappointed.

Help me understand this issue mentioned above. I have the Autocom with the Bluetooth Dongle and the I have been using the phone while on the bike daily so I am not sure what you are referring too?

....my old Streetpilot and so on the device displayed the names of upcoming streets as I drove or rode along. The name would change as I passed each street, telling me the name of the upcoming street - and every so often they tell me what street I'm driving on.

I needed to find the Greyhound Bus Station in Santa Ana last night to pick up my wifes brother and I remember using this feature without any issues. I could see streets popping up as I was driving and giving me the name and up top I could see the street I was on at the time and the max speed sign. I find the unit in the top left the most useful. It tells me I am turning right in 2.3 miles so there is no reason for me to know anything more than keep moving for another 2 miles then look for my turn. I was not turning on main streets based on the location of the bus station so the smaller back streets would pop up as I was driving closer.

Give us a 'MOST' button for map detail.

Maybe ignorance is bliss since I do not know what I am missing here.

 

[bramfrank]

Rather than quote you, just reference the answers in sequence with your comments;

1. You aren't using the MP3 player feature . . yet - you can't route the music to the wired stereo input on the Autocom and the phone audio to the Bluetooth separately (Autocom's Bluetooth isn't Stereo).

2. Nope. Certainly when you are navigating it will tell you how far and the time to the next turn (depending on how you have the data boxes configured) and what THAT street's name is. However the issue is when you are NOT navigating (which is most of the time).

Garmin's other navigators tell you what street you are approaching and then replace that with the name of the next street as you get to the current one . . . The Zumo 660 tells you only what street you are driving on, with no information about cross streets.

Hopefully I KNOW what street I'm on, but I want to know what streets I'm crossing.

3. If you do any significant day riding or long distance touring and if you like exploring you will.

 

[OzarkTraveler]

Concerning your request for more map detail with Street names: Go to Tools - Settings - Map - Map detail - Set to High Then Map View - Set to Track Up This will take the unit out of 3D and put it into 2D mode and you can see more street detail.

 

[bramfrank]

Concerning your request for more map detail with Street names: Go to Tools - Settings - Map - Map detail - Set to High Then Map View - Set to Track Up This will take the unit out of 3D and put it into 2D mode and you can see more street detail.

'More' only gives street detail to 500 meter zoom levels. Other Garmin navigators with the same display resolution and GUI pedigree have 5 levels of detail (Zumo 660 has 3) and they go to 1.2 km with secondary streets displayed with the same screen real estate, same user interface and a processor that runs half as fast.

 

[bramfrank]

Well, some people have asked for additional updates on the Zumo.

I'm sad to report that the device has some serious limitations - but the reality is that they may not be limited to the Zumo 660!! I have seen references to the road detail limitations being ported in the latest map/firmware on the Zumo 550 . . . .and that isn't going to cut it for most rural road riders.

Last weekend I was out on the bike and riding some back roads . . . wanting to get the bigger picture I zoomed out to 1.2 km (and beyond) and not only couldn't see any other roads, but the entire map was simply a yellow plane with a single stream crossing it - the road I was riding didn't even appear!!.

How the heck can I decide if a road is interesting to ride if it doesn't show on the map unless I'm within about 3 miles of it?

Some have suggested that 3D mode is an answer . . . nope.

Others have suggested I'm crazy . . . that may well be. but it doesn't change the fact that we don;t have adequate map detail

And, aside from the fact that the unit doesn't display the zoom factor on the main map screen (requiring that you switch to what Garmin calls the Browse map), the Browse map is inaccessible in the bike mount while underway (don't know if it is when stopped - haven't tried, because it's just that stupid).

Another issue has to do with screen updating; Zumo 660 will 'paint' a rectangle of screen and then pause. Sometimes for a relatively long time (like 30 seconds). It will eventually draw the rest of the screen. It happens in the main screen and on the browse map.



The other day I was navigating and the unit told me to exit the highway. As it zoomed in it paused; Then it tried to zoom in some more (note that IT was doing the zooming, not me) and it paused; before it could finish it zoomed again . . . and so on.

The problem is that IT NEVER MANAGED TO SHOW THE ENTIRE EXIT. Had I not KNOWN where to go, the navigator wouldn't have showed me and if I was perhaps less familiar I might have panicked and done something less than intuitive . . . I know better; When in doubt, maintain the status quo.

Check out my rant threads at wwww.zumoforums.com . . .

Of interest is that some of the dissenting opinions come from people who never put their units on a bike and who never leave a city . . . . . Those who do ride most often seem to agree with my observations.

Zumo needs help.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Thanks for the updates...I think I made the wise decision by just staying with my 550. At least I am very familiar with its operating and quirks. Keep the reports coming! :clapping:

 

[bramfrank]

Wow, I can write long posts. And this is the abridged version!!

Well, those that know me are aware that I am a very up front kind of person. I research my answers before I write them. I take no 'guff' and I tell it like it is. I'm pretty literal and the one thing that bothers me most is dealing with posers; people that aspire to one thing but are simply not what they claim to be.

So, in keeping with the goings-on with the Zumo 660 evaluation I wandered over to the Zumoforums web site, as previously reported and put together my list of issues.

I was greeted with three specific types of reply which astounded me;

1. I shouldn't have bought it if it didn't do what I wanted

2. I should have waited until it had what I wanted

3. It's perfect. Get used to it.

There is a small clique over there who fancy themselves experts in GPS navigation . . . too bad they open their mouths before they bother to read their operator manuals.

One of them had the audacity to suggest that, having opened the thread with my comments, I should let the rest of the people express their views without comment from me. Most of those posts were 'it is fine for me' and some such with the occasional comment that it needed improvement - you can tell who the riders are from the answers.

The same person suggested that because HE didn't see a particular bug it couldn't be a bug and certainly wasn't 'serious'.

This morning I hit the roof when one of these people posted an answer to a question about an issue that I'd previously identified (you can't access the browse map when the unit is in the bike cradle and the bke is in motion - safe mode being off).

You need the browse map because you can't get any street level detail when zoomed out (another issue), so the only way to see what's going on more than about 3 miles away is to pan the map around when in a closer-in zoom mode - extremely inconvenient; And if you're locked out from the browse map, then your just SOL and have to stop if you really want to know what's going on - and THAT is a real deal breaker for us explorer types. If you can't see the roads around you, you can't make an informed decision about whether you want to check it out.

One of these post-whores HAD to reply that he hadn't experienced the problem . . . but then he'd only tried while the unit was in his car mount.

This poser had been implying that he was a Beta tester for a fix for the 'recalculation bug' that is in the present release of the 660 firmware; He'd been telling us how 'he had the fix' and that it was truly fixed , but obviously little (nothing) else.

So, knowing he was wrong (AGAIN) about a feature on the device I posted that his testing methodology was suspect and that he shouldn't answer questions if he isn't certain of the answer - that to be a real support person he had an obligation to actually go out and test the feature or just keep his mouth shut.

His reply was (as expected) that he is not a formal tester and he inferred that his copy of the firmware was a 'hot copy' (so much for his claim of 'closed testing').

Well, he also said that he has great connections at Garmin and that he could get things done . . . he then amended his post to state that he knows a sales manager (director of sales) for Garmin Europe . . . but even then he had the wrong information about the status of the 276c and 278 - he claimed them to be obsolete, but they are current.

That kind of thing bugs me to death.

So I very strongly, but politely reponded to his taunts. And the board weenies have banned me . . . why am I not surprised?

Well, since I know one of Garmin's senior executives and have a direct connection with the product group, not to mention that my best buddy happens to be one of Garmin's top distributors, I suspect that my ability to influence product is somewhat stronger than this person's.

So watch here for further details, because some of Zumoforum's more prolific post-whores are complete jerks who don't mind mis-informing people, so long as they can see their drivel on screen.