2006FJR
Administrator of Transportation
I just did the update and I am someone who uses my Zumo in my car 8 hours a day and on my bike on weekends. There are a few issues but I would buy it again.
Zumo 660 first impressions
- Thread starter bramfrank
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MEM
Well-known member
2006FJR
Administrator of Transportation
PM me when you are ready Mary. I am in outside sales so I am always in new areas and needing to find new locations so I have traded this in for my trusty Thomas Guide I have used for the last 20 years. It is also fun for me to use to places I visit regualrly to see if I can find new faster ways to arrive. When my wife calls me and needs something fom Target I can find them easily. When I am out of gas and I want to find a Mobil or a Chevron it gets me there. Even hotels when I am on the road. I find myself leaning on it more than I thought I would... Good luck Mary and I think you are going to like it. DOn't even get me started on how well it works with the new Automcom system. :yahoo:
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08FJR4ME
-WYNPRO-
Well so far I am very happy with the Garmin 660. My only other GPS is in my Ford Edge built in factory option. I was on the fence for a while between the 550/660 thing. I just couldn't see going backwards in technology. I don't care for XM radio so that wasn't an issue with me. I had it in my Edge for 6 months and i can do without it. As far as security screw feature I don't see an issue. It just pops off easy and can be put right inside my MC jacket pocket. I think i prefer that than to messin with some screw.
I can't see how you can give this a 1 out of five star rating. It has way more features than what i have in my car. Not that I am any expert on GPS systems. I haven't done any long trips as of yet so I will hold off on the final judgement for now. I purchased this to make the trip down to EOM and I am sure I will learn as I go. I also made my own custom mount and didn't use any of the Garmin mounting hardware.
I can't see how you can give this a 1 out of five star rating. It has way more features than what i have in my car. Not that I am any expert on GPS systems. I haven't done any long trips as of yet so I will hold off on the final judgement for now. I purchased this to make the trip down to EOM and I am sure I will learn as I go. I also made my own custom mount and didn't use any of the Garmin mounting hardware.
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bramfrank
BramFrank
I gave it a one because I couldn't give it a ZERO.
Some jerk thought I should give it a 3 (out of 5) because it worked adequately as a navigator. Puhleese. It is supposed to be a high quality, extremely flexible, highly featured device for which a HUGE premium is charged. It didn't and still doesn't do what the community needs it to do, so it isn't going to be a '3', which is 'average for its specifications'.
You are typical of newbies who think they know what they talk about, based on 2 days experience.
My expertise comes from spending the last 25 years in the wireless data business and working in the telematics field, with companies like ETAKS, Magellan, General Motors and more, developing the first dead reckoning based navigation systems and then specifying, selling and hand-holding both DR and GPS based AVL networks for software vendors, governments, railroads, resource industries and public safety organisations around the world. I have owned, evaluated or used literally hundreds of different GPS devices since they started coming available - I even have an old (but functional) Trimble Placer 450 sitting on the shelf above my head, not that it means anything.
In other words, I think that by now I know a thing or two about GPS and navigators and communications.
First of all, as a navigator it is OK - but clearly you haven't bothered to read what I wrote because it said that.
I can get a competent navigator that does virtually everything that the 660 does properly for less than $250. We pay between $600 and $800 for this beast. It should not do the basics OK. It should do them flawlessly.
I got banned from Zumoforums for my opinions, specifically because, as I pointed out in very graphic language to the anals who inhabit that place and who thought the Zumo must be perfect becase it is expensive, with the $450 I would have had left over after buying a 'competent' navigator instead of the then truly crappy 660, I could have hired a damn good hooker and had the time of my life (ok, the time of my night) and STILL be guided around, actually better than the Zumo 660 does - or did.
Strangely, the general feeling there NOW is that it is fundamentally flawed and needs much work. Oh, it has it's defenders - generally those who have no clue, nor any idea about where to find one, even if provided the waypoint to it. I hadn't thought of you as one of those before now.
Like I said in the other thread - USE the unit. Don't just go to the corner store with it twice and pronounce it perfect. :fuk: :fuk: :fuk:
Can you tell I'm upset? If I get a warn for this rant, fine.
OK, I've had some time to cool off a bit . . . still have the same feelings about it, but I do want to ask for a show of hands;
Who among us, after reading through this entire thread from start to finish could NOT see my rant coming? Maybe I should attach a poll!
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Shane Stump
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BF,
I tried going the non-Zumo route and my daughter wound up with a GPS for her car! It SUCKED on a bike to say the least even if it may have had a few more features than the Zumo 660.
I got a 20% off coupon from my BMW dealer so I went ahead and purchased the BMW Navigator 4 (i.e. Zumo 660 with BMW's 4 button cradle).
I just did the recent upgrade and it fixed one of the MAJOR flaws I had with the unit (the Bluetooth pause when the unit switches between navigator / music / phone is now gone with my J&M Bluetooth headset). The bluetooth works very well with my HTC Touch Pro 2 and Nokia N97!
The remaining MAJOR FLAWS IMHO are
1) Having a large # of mp3 files on the unit causes a LONG initial delay because the unit ALWAYS rescans the sd-card on startup. I have asked Garmin to only index the mp3s AFTER the unit has been hooked up to a computer.
2) Searching could be be MUCH improved.
As far as usability on a bike, I like it. It still isn't perfect but to be fair I haven't found a perfect GPS yet.
I have only done about 1,000 miles of local driving and it has worked flawlessly.
Is it worth ~$800... I tried to save money buying a car Nuvi and it is now in my daughter's car.... :blink: !
Best Regards,
Shane
bramfrank
BramFrank
The flaws in the basic functionality - the way they now display upcoming streets, the lack of secondary road detail and so on are unforgiveable.
As to your N97, try putting photos in your contacts on your phone and THEN try syncing up!! THAT won't work if you have more than a couple of hundred names (not sure how many need photos for it to crash).
I've had it lock up once since going to version 3.30 - then again I haven't done more than a couple of longer (>200 miles) days since then along with shorter local riding.
My cradle's been replaced and now the unit doesn't auto-switch between car and bike, so it's worse than it was, because while the external mic input didn't work before, at least it knew what mode to be in. Now the mic still doesn't work plus I have the aforementioned cradle mode issue.
I have a loaded 8 gig microSD card (1700 files) and it does take a while. However if you are gearing up for a 500 mile ride, waiting 2 minutes for the indices to be read isn't really a hardship. And my habit is to deny the auto shutoff when I switch off the bike for gas or pit stops, so it runs all day without a break (hopefully). That way I don't have to reconnect the Bluetooth either..
As to your request on Garmin re indexing only after connecting to a PC, that won't work because you can change the contents of the card without connecting up to a,PC - the proper way is to scan the directory and run a checksum (or probably better yet a CRC-32) on the directory and compare that against a value stored in main memory. Then you'd only need to rebuild the index if the validation fails.
Unfortunately, the list of bugs is still long and there are some extremely serious issues with some of the underlying specifications.
As you know if you've been reading my posts in various threads, the 378/478 are probably the best displays out there for a vehicular nevigator because they aren't raster scan conversions. They are also TFT and thus actually MORE readable in direct sunlight, not requiring backlighting like the Zumos do.
But if you must have a touchscreen and you must have Bluetooth and an MP3 player, then look to the older 27xx/28xx - save $600 and more and go forward from there. Or look at the GPSMAP 640, though I've only played with one in hand and have no in-vehicle experience with them.
As I said - as a generic navigator it is OK - however the latest maps from Navteq also have issues, I must say - a lot of areas seem to be 'shifted'. Try looking at a couple of (generally) rural tracks and switch between various maps - there is some kind of registration error!! That's one reason people at poi-factory are saying that their homes seem to have 'crossed the street' with the 2010 maps.
It still isn't worth the $800 they are asking and THAT is what this thread is all about. It is getting better, mind you. But the premium still isn't justified IMO.
As to your N97, try putting photos in your contacts on your phone and THEN try syncing up!! THAT won't work if you have more than a couple of hundred names (not sure how many need photos for it to crash).
I've had it lock up once since going to version 3.30 - then again I haven't done more than a couple of longer (>200 miles) days since then along with shorter local riding.
My cradle's been replaced and now the unit doesn't auto-switch between car and bike, so it's worse than it was, because while the external mic input didn't work before, at least it knew what mode to be in. Now the mic still doesn't work plus I have the aforementioned cradle mode issue.
I have a loaded 8 gig microSD card (1700 files) and it does take a while. However if you are gearing up for a 500 mile ride, waiting 2 minutes for the indices to be read isn't really a hardship. And my habit is to deny the auto shutoff when I switch off the bike for gas or pit stops, so it runs all day without a break (hopefully). That way I don't have to reconnect the Bluetooth either..
As to your request on Garmin re indexing only after connecting to a PC, that won't work because you can change the contents of the card without connecting up to a,PC - the proper way is to scan the directory and run a checksum (or probably better yet a CRC-32) on the directory and compare that against a value stored in main memory. Then you'd only need to rebuild the index if the validation fails.
Unfortunately, the list of bugs is still long and there are some extremely serious issues with some of the underlying specifications.
As you know if you've been reading my posts in various threads, the 378/478 are probably the best displays out there for a vehicular nevigator because they aren't raster scan conversions. They are also TFT and thus actually MORE readable in direct sunlight, not requiring backlighting like the Zumos do.
But if you must have a touchscreen and you must have Bluetooth and an MP3 player, then look to the older 27xx/28xx - save $600 and more and go forward from there. Or look at the GPSMAP 640, though I've only played with one in hand and have no in-vehicle experience with them.
As I said - as a generic navigator it is OK - however the latest maps from Navteq also have issues, I must say - a lot of areas seem to be 'shifted'. Try looking at a couple of (generally) rural tracks and switch between various maps - there is some kind of registration error!! That's one reason people at poi-factory are saying that their homes seem to have 'crossed the street' with the 2010 maps.
It still isn't worth the $800 they are asking and THAT is what this thread is all about. It is getting better, mind you. But the premium still isn't justified IMO.
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Shane Stump
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BF,
I guess the main thing to get out of this thread is what's important to the user.
For example, I have hundreds of contacts in my phones but since I know what my friends look like, I don't need to see their picture on my phone :yahoo: !
As far as the MP3 scanning issue, to me this a MAJOR usage flaw. I have also asked for Garmin to make it a user (manual) option. When I first experienced the delay, I thought my unit was broken (originally I had 2500 MP3s on a 16gb card)... I kept turning the unit on/off before I remembered I had just inserted the micro-SDHC card! For now, I just split my music into 3 cards by mood (not really a solution I like, but I can live with it for now).
As far as the 640, I got turned off it because there is no MP3 player (more important to me than XM Radio) & the real-time weather only works in marine mode!
The PERFECT GPS for me would be the 640 with a MP3 player (without the initial scan delay) + real-time weather while in auto/motorcycle navigation mode.
I have had a couple of 2820's and I like the unit... in fact, if it had had an external SD Card slot for MP3s, I would have kept it until Garmin comes out with the "improved" 640!!!
Oh well, the search for the PERFECT GPS will continue like the search for the PERFECT cell phone
!
Best regards,
Shane
I guess the main thing to get out of this thread is what's important to the user.
For example, I have hundreds of contacts in my phones but since I know what my friends look like, I don't need to see their picture on my phone :yahoo: !
As far as the MP3 scanning issue, to me this a MAJOR usage flaw. I have also asked for Garmin to make it a user (manual) option. When I first experienced the delay, I thought my unit was broken (originally I had 2500 MP3s on a 16gb card)... I kept turning the unit on/off before I remembered I had just inserted the micro-SDHC card! For now, I just split my music into 3 cards by mood (not really a solution I like, but I can live with it for now).
As far as the 640, I got turned off it because there is no MP3 player (more important to me than XM Radio) & the real-time weather only works in marine mode!
The PERFECT GPS for me would be the 640 with a MP3 player (without the initial scan delay) + real-time weather while in auto/motorcycle navigation mode.
I have had a couple of 2820's and I like the unit... in fact, if it had had an external SD Card slot for MP3s, I would have kept it until Garmin comes out with the "improved" 640!!!
Oh well, the search for the PERFECT GPS will continue like the search for the PERFECT cell phone
!Best regards,
Shane
bramfrank
BramFrank
Up til now I carried an ipod - worked just fine, thanks.
The concept of taking a number of diverse elements and packaging them in a single case is laudable, but you end up with up the the 'Symphony' (software) effect.
When Lotus (I thnk it was lotus) released Symphony in the '80s is was the first all-in-one package that handled spreadsheets and word processing - it was a pain the rear to use, but the advantage was that it could run rings around anything else out there IF YOU KNEW HOW TO USE IT. The various modes were different enough that people simply felt it was a generic program, master of nothing.
The MP3 player in the Zumo and Nuvis works. If you want to use separates AND hear your anouncements you need a mixer or switcher of some sort - Autocom seemed to have the answer with their isolated combiners. But the overall audio quality was only so-so.
If we're going to have so-so audio, we might as well have the convenience of putting all the buttons in one place. I get the point. But at least do it right?
What also might be nice is to have the navigator put the song title in the banner box at the start of each song for, perhaps 10 seconds when the map is showing. How about if you tap the banner bar during that intro the unit will skip to the next song on the list?
There's lots that can be done. And it would have been nice if Garmin had actually canvassed the users for once so that we could get what we wanted.
The concept of taking a number of diverse elements and packaging them in a single case is laudable, but you end up with up the the 'Symphony' (software) effect.
When Lotus (I thnk it was lotus) released Symphony in the '80s is was the first all-in-one package that handled spreadsheets and word processing - it was a pain the rear to use, but the advantage was that it could run rings around anything else out there IF YOU KNEW HOW TO USE IT. The various modes were different enough that people simply felt it was a generic program, master of nothing.
The MP3 player in the Zumo and Nuvis works. If you want to use separates AND hear your anouncements you need a mixer or switcher of some sort - Autocom seemed to have the answer with their isolated combiners. But the overall audio quality was only so-so.
If we're going to have so-so audio, we might as well have the convenience of putting all the buttons in one place. I get the point. But at least do it right?
What also might be nice is to have the navigator put the song title in the banner box at the start of each song for, perhaps 10 seconds when the map is showing. How about if you tap the banner bar during that intro the unit will skip to the next song on the list?
There's lots that can be done. And it would have been nice if Garmin had actually canvassed the users for once so that we could get what we wanted.
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Thug
A shy retiring flower in a Thug's exterior
A far as I'm concerned this thread is all bullshit until I see a pic...the Zumo 660 does not exist, the Zumo 660 does not exist, the Zumo 660 does not exist.......
Shane Stump
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BF,
The devices are getting better! Take the Nokia N97 for example... it has a lot of nice features and a lot FLAWS!!! I now use it as my primary phone + MP3 player because it works well for ME!!! Now if Nokia had just added more PROGRAM MEMORY (not storage) and a FASTER CPU, they would get much better reviews.
The good thing about the Garmin units is that Garmin CAN IMPROVE the user experience through software! I write software for a living so I can be patient!
As far as having multiple widgets and another widget to integrate them, I have been there & done that... I will take the integrated solution over the separates (it's not like a motorcycle provides the "best" symphonic experience )!
Best regards,
Shane
The devices are getting better! Take the Nokia N97 for example... it has a lot of nice features and a lot FLAWS!!! I now use it as my primary phone + MP3 player because it works well for ME!!! Now if Nokia had just added more PROGRAM MEMORY (not storage) and a FASTER CPU, they would get much better reviews.
The good thing about the Garmin units is that Garmin CAN IMPROVE the user experience through software! I write software for a living so I can be patient!
As far as having multiple widgets and another widget to integrate them, I have been there & done that... I will take the integrated solution over the separates (it's not like a motorcycle provides the "best" symphonic experience
)!Best regards,
Shane
bramfrank
BramFrank
You can have more memory and a faster CPU for your phone, but given the state of battery technology as it exists today it will need to be recharged every 2 hours.
This WAS a thread of my impressions and we're way off topic now, discussing inanities.
Key basic issues with the 660 remain, among them that you can't see secondary roads unless you zoom in so close that you can actually see farher down the road than the navigator is depicting (unless, of course you are cresting a hill).
There's more. A LOT more. And Garmin just isn't listening when it comes to features. Serious bugs? They're working on that.
This WAS a thread of my impressions and we're way off topic now, discussing inanities.
Key basic issues with the 660 remain, among them that you can't see secondary roads unless you zoom in so close that you can actually see farher down the road than the navigator is depicting (unless, of course you are cresting a hill).
There's more. A LOT more. And Garmin just isn't listening when it comes to features. Serious bugs? They're working on that.
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08FJR4ME
-WYNPRO-
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Thug
A shy retiring flower in a Thug's exterior
Oki Doki!!! B)
FJR1300Mark
Well-known member
The thread and rant have been a lot of things on and off topic, but they have been detailed and that is good. I have Garmin Quest II. I loved it but I must be riding faster these days as it tells me to turn as I pass some intersections now. It has and is a good unit but I'm ready for a faster gps with a larger screen. I was hoping the 660 was it, but I"ll probably wait a little while longer and follow the updates.
I don't care about the music or putting my contacts on it. Bluetooth to hear the announcements would be good.
Most important to me is the routing capability and being able to find gas, hotel, food, when in a new place. Being able to just explore getting "lost" and then hit the button to find your way back to the hotel or home is awsome. They probably all do that today.
I have a Garmin 95, one of the first handheld gps specifically used for airplanes. It is really slow, but you don't have to make 90 degree turns in a 100 foot intersection.
I do like Garmin's warrantee / repair. I have had very good support from them.
Guess I'm holding for now.
Thanks for the review!
I don't care about the music or putting my contacts on it. Bluetooth to hear the announcements would be good.
Most important to me is the routing capability and being able to find gas, hotel, food, when in a new place. Being able to just explore getting "lost" and then hit the button to find your way back to the hotel or home is awsome. They probably all do that today.
I have a Garmin 95, one of the first handheld gps specifically used for airplanes. It is really slow, but you don't have to make 90 degree turns in a 100 foot intersection.
I do like Garmin's warrantee / repair. I have had very good support from them.
Guess I'm holding for now.
Thanks for the review!
bramfrank
BramFrank
I suppose that there has been enough lag that it is time for an update on the state of my impressions of the Zumo 660.
Since we last heard from our intrepid hero, he has received a firmware update to version 3.50.
Garmin has always included a changelog with their firmware updates, but often messes with things and DOESN'T report on them in the summaries - so it becomes a hunt for the 'Easter egg' in the sense that an Easter egg is an undocumented feature that can only be found by stumbling upon it (or being directed to that place by someone who knows how to trigger it).
The latest updates purported to correct some Bluetooth issues - though the code is still pretty buggy in that I can still cause the device to shut itself down simply by allowing my N95-4 to connect with the Zumo - and, I'm sorry, but there is no way that this should happen and Garmin telling me that this is because my phone isn't supported simply is not a valid excuse.
They are also supposed to have resolved the infamous recalc bug - the answer is that they changed it, but it remains.
They HAVE provided for a feature setting to disable Autozoom - I had a huge issue with someone in Sweden who vehemently claimed that the unit had no such feature, which is exactly why Garmin has provided a setting to disable it.
There is still the abysmal display density and they have not restored the cross street names in the banner box.
Beyond this, and as a basic navigator the device works well enough, but for what it does it is still way overpriced. It's gotten somewhat better, but it still is an expensive and buggy device for the premium price being charged.
Note that there is likely to be a series of changes in the Zumo lineup . . . The Zumo 550 will be discontinued sometime in the next 6 months and a variant of the Nuvi 550 will likely be rebadged as a Zumo 200.
Happy new year to all
Since we last heard from our intrepid hero, he has received a firmware update to version 3.50.
Garmin has always included a changelog with their firmware updates, but often messes with things and DOESN'T report on them in the summaries - so it becomes a hunt for the 'Easter egg' in the sense that an Easter egg is an undocumented feature that can only be found by stumbling upon it (or being directed to that place by someone who knows how to trigger it).
The latest updates purported to correct some Bluetooth issues - though the code is still pretty buggy in that I can still cause the device to shut itself down simply by allowing my N95-4 to connect with the Zumo - and, I'm sorry, but there is no way that this should happen and Garmin telling me that this is because my phone isn't supported simply is not a valid excuse.
They are also supposed to have resolved the infamous recalc bug - the answer is that they changed it, but it remains.
They HAVE provided for a feature setting to disable Autozoom - I had a huge issue with someone in Sweden who vehemently claimed that the unit had no such feature, which is exactly why Garmin has provided a setting to disable it.
There is still the abysmal display density and they have not restored the cross street names in the banner box.
Beyond this, and as a basic navigator the device works well enough, but for what it does it is still way overpriced. It's gotten somewhat better, but it still is an expensive and buggy device for the premium price being charged.
Note that there is likely to be a series of changes in the Zumo lineup . . . The Zumo 550 will be discontinued sometime in the next 6 months and a variant of the Nuvi 550 will likely be rebadged as a Zumo 200.
Happy new year to all
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FJRPierre
Making up for lost time...
it should work a lot better now in the snow n'est pas? Happy New Year to you our intrepid GPS tester!
Happy New Year to you our intrepid GPS tester!
2006FJR
Administrator of Transportation
I am still pretty happy with my Zumo 660 and if I had to do it all over again I would buy it and buy it over the Zumo 550 for my needs. Having said that it is WAY overpriced for what you get. I bought my wife a 285T and it broke down the 2nd day we had it so I returned it for a full refund. It was for use in her car and we decided to go with the Kenwood 9140 with garmin nav. I better go pull out my unit and get it updated. Thanks for the updates. :clapping:
By the way I added the MSN traffic to my 660 in the car and it works perfectly. I wish I could do the same on the bike without heavy modification?
By the way I added the MSN traffic to my 660 in the car and it works perfectly. I wish I could do the same on the bike without heavy modification?
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08FJR4ME
-WYNPRO-
Well I have to report that I am still a happy user of the Zumo 660. Thanks Bram for the info on the new update. Hey did you know we share the same birthday? I realize I am not the most demanding user of this unit but it has served me well. My only fault I can claim is when going through the BRP and getting some wierd message and temporarly loosing the satalite fix. Other than that it's been great. It has gone through some of the worst rains i have ever been in. I have done over 10K with this unit this season. As far as the price goes it really isn't much more than the 550.
$620.00 New W/free shipping is what I got it for. I think the 550 is still going around $570.00 new.
Dave
$620.00 New W/free shipping is what I got it for. I think the 550 is still going around $570.00 new.
Dave
KiloWatts
Member
Great Thread - Was hot for a 660 but now not so sure - will wait to see what develops. Thanks everyone for the input and great info.
KW
KW
