AE blinky 'Shift' light, Runs Rough, Won't shift into first, around 26K miles, etc.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

I have read the threads dealing with complaints similar to those in the topic title above. My 2006 AE began to exhibit this behavior a couple of months ago. It really would only do this (refuse to shift into first gear) when the engine was stone cold, or if I stopped for a while (lunch for instance) and the bike cooled a bit. I got it to shift by 'resetting' the system (turn the key off, then back on, wait for diagnostic tests, enable the paddle shifter, shift into first gear real quick. I bled/replaced the dot 4 in the YCC system (it was due anyway), and this seemed to help a bit, but the phenomenon re-occurred in short order. A better (short term) fix was to turn the ignition on, enable the paddle shifter, and quickly shift into first with the engine off. Then I start the engine, and off I would go. I keep mentioning the paddle shifter because I like it. The foot shifter exhibited the same behavior as the paddle shifter. If one worked the other worked, and vice versa. Finally it started to screw up occasionally even using the 'shift with motor off' method . . . My riding buddies kept saying, "One of these days that thing is going to strand you." I said, "Well It certainly has given me plenty of warning." So I fixed it . . .

Yep, even I can only procrastinate for so long. Okay, right to the quick. After looking at my records, I realized this problem occurred within 100 miles or so of my changing my oil & filter. Trying for frugal, and high tech, I purchased a couple of gallons of Shell Rotella T6 synthetic oil from Walmart for about $21 per gallon, and a filter from the Yamaha dealer, and did my oil change. Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic is a Heavy Duty Diesel rated oil. A friend who used to build uber drag racing engines among other things, had told my that he had great results using 'Diesel' oils in his vehicles over the years. I also have read that many of our forum members use, or have used this oil. In spite of these reported good results, my AE shifting system/clutch did not seem to like the additives in this oil. The closest motorcycle store to me is a Honda Dealer, so I purchased 5 quarts of their Petroleum/Synthetic blend oil in 20/50 weight, with "No Moly" on the label & changed the oil again.

When the new oil was in, I started the motor, waited a few seconds, enabled the paddle shifter, and shifted cleanly into first gear. That quick it was done. The blinking light, rough running, won't shift stuff was gone. I have put three or four hundred miles on the bike representing about 5 cold starts, and maybe the same number of cool oil starts since the oil change was done. This is not an extensive test, but the problem is completely gone so far. I hope it stays that way.

The oil I put in the bike was a Honda product, but the Yamaha semi-Syn 20/50 I have used in the past worked just fine too. I believe plain old 20/40, or 20/50 SAE would work fine too as long as the oil contains NO friction modifiers, or whatever the hell additives are in Rotella T6.

mcatrophy · Mar 5, 2013

Firstly, thanks for posting, adds to the collective knowledge, and congrats on putting two and two together and making four.

Your title, and your "cured" statement, talks of a blinking light.

willboe said:
... The blinking light, rough running, won't shift stuff was gone....

Presumably this was the engine fault light. Was there a SH__xx error code shown?

It sounds to me as if the oil was too thick for the clutch to move properly, in which case you'd expect something like an SH__26 error. But then you'd also expect nasty clunky gear changes, which you didn't mention.

The curious would like to know

.

Enn · Mar 5, 2013

Many thanks also from here, now I know to keep away from Rotella. I have only been using Yamaha original recommended oil so far and will keep on doing so. The trouble in shifting is the last thing I need.

RossKean · Mar 5, 2013

I can't imagine how/why Rotella T6 could be the culprit. At cooler temperatures, it would be less viscous than the 20W50. (It is a 5W40). Maybe your AE likes the higher viscosity?? I doubt it is related to some magical additive. It will be interesting to see whether others share your experience.

fastpappy · Mar 5, 2013

I've tried the Rotella T6 in the past and while I didn't have any trouble shifting I found that when I switched back to the 20W50 the shifts were much better. More positive, smoother etc. So I've been using the Mobil 1 motorcycle specific 20W50 I think it actually claims to be formulated for V Twins. I figure if it works for an air cooled Twin should be fine for the Feej.

gixxerjasen · Mar 5, 2013

I'm also going to question this. I've no doubt that your oil changes coincided with the changes but I don't think a few seconds of the bike running at idle wouldn't be enough to pump enough of your new cold oil into the clutch, and soak the plates and wash off the T6 to make that kind of difference.

I'm happy you found a solution but I doubt it's the T6 that was the culprit. In addition, I have roughly 10K miles of T6 run through my AE with none of the problems you have experienced.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

mcatrophy said:
Firstly, thanks for posting, adds to the collective knowledge, and congrats on putting two and two together and making four.
Your title, and your "cured" statement, talks of a blinking light.

willboe said:

... The blinking light, rough running, won't shift stuff was gone....

Click to expand...

Presumably this was the engine fault light. Was there a SH__xx error code shown?

It sounds to me as if the oil was too thick for the clutch to move properly, in which case you'd expect something like an SH__26 error. But then you'd also expect nasty clunky gear changes, which you didn't mention.

The curious would like to know

.

No error code was ever displayed. My 2006 'AE', has an orange-ish light on the LCD display. This functions much like an 'Engine' light on a car. Upon starting the engine, the light briefly displays as it checks the integrity of the 'electric shift' system (Yamaha YCCS). If all is well, the light goes out, just like the 'engine' light, and off I go. If there is a problem, the other symptoms I described occur, including: * orange light blinks while motor runs rough, and bike will not shift into first, or * the orange light remains lit while the engine idles fine, and the bike will not shift into first (or anywhere else for that matter). Bizarre symptoms, but not unique.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

gixxerjasen said:
I'm also going to question this. I've no doubt that your oil changes coincided with the changes but I don't think a few seconds of the bike running at idle wouldn't be enough to pump enough of your new cold oil into the clutch, and soak the plates and wash off the T6 to make that kind of difference.
I'm happy you found a solution but I doubt it's the T6 that was the culprit. In addition, I have roughly 10K miles of T6 run through my AE with none of the problems you have experienced.

The fix was apparent almost immediately, but I think it was another part of the system, like a solenoid, that was sticking & causing the problem. See my reply to FastPappy for my experience with 'Friction Modifier' or other additives/Synthetic oils however. "MOLY" especially is not your friend, especially if you have an older bike.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

willboe said:
I have read the threads dealing with complaints similar to those in the topic title above. My 2006 AE began to exhibit this behavior a couple of months ago. It really would only do this (refuse to shift into first gear) when the engine was stone cold, or if I stopped for a while (lunch for instance) and the bike cooled a bit. I got it to shift by 'resetting' the system (turn the key off, then back on, wait for diagnostic tests, enable the paddle shifter, shift into first gear real quick. I bled/replaced the dot 4 in the YCC system (it was due anyway), and this seemed to help a bit, but the phenomenon re-occurred in short order. A better (short term) fix was to turn the ignition on, enable the paddle shifter, and quickly shift into first with the engine off. Then I start the engine, and off I would go. I keep mentioning the paddle shifter because I like it. The foot shifter exhibited the same behavior as the paddle shifter. If one worked the other worked, and vice versa. Finally it started to screw up occasionally even using the 'shift with motor off' method . . . My riding buddies kept saying, "One of these days that thing is going to strand you." I said, "Well It certainly has given me plenty of warning." So I fixed it . . .
Yep, even I can only procrastinate for so long. Okay, right to the quick. After looking at my records, I realized this problem occurred within 100 miles or so of my changing my oil & filter. Trying for frugal, and high tech, I purchased a couple of gallons of Shell Rotella T6 synthetic oil from Walmart for about $21 per gallon, and a filter from the Yamaha dealer, and did my oil change. Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic is a Heavy Duty Diesel rated oil. A friend who used to build uber drag racing engines among other things, had told my that he had great results using 'Diesel' oils in his vehicles over the years. I also have read that many of our forum members use, or have used this oil. In spite of these reported good results, my AE shifting system/clutch did not seem to like the additives in this oil. The closest motorcycle store to me is a Honda Dealer, so I purchased 5 quarts of their Petroleum/Synthetic blend oil in 20/50 weight, with "No Moly" on the label & changed the oil again.

When the new oil was in, I started the motor, waited a few seconds, enabled the paddle shifter, and shifted cleanly into first gear. That quick it was done. The blinking light, rough running, won't shift stuff was gone. I have put three or four hundred miles on the bike representing about 5 cold starts, and maybe the same number of cool oil starts since the oil change was done. This is not an extensive test, but the problem is completely gone so far. I hope it stays that way.

The oil I put in the bike was a Honda product, but the Yamaha semi-Syn 20/50 I have used in the past worked just fine too. I believe plain old 20/40, or 20/50 SAE would work fine too as long as the oil contains NO friction modifiers, or whatever the hell additives are in Rotella T6.

** CORRECTION ** My bad, the Rotella T6 is indeed 05/40 weight. The Yamaha oil recommended by my local Yamaha dealer, and the Honda oil I put into the bike are 20/50, and both are 'Semi Synthetic', or Petroleum/Synthetic blends with no friction modifiers. My 2006 AE called for 20/40 oil in the manual. This weight is not readily available where I am. The Yamaha dealer, Roseville Yamaha, recommended to me the 20/50 weight, and the tech showed me that this has been Yamaha's recommendation since 2007. Pure dinosaur, or Syn are not supposed to matter.

Top_Speed1 · Mar 5, 2013

Gotta luv these oil threads.

Whether T6 is the cause or not just makes me wanna stay with my easy to obtain, Wallyworldz packaged 5 gal jug of Mobil1.

odot · Mar 5, 2013

Youins would never have this problem iffns youins were runnins amsoil. They even make good batteries.

Top_Speed1 · Mar 5, 2013

Youins would never have this problem iffns youins were runnins amsoil. They even make good batteries.

Too bad they don't 'make' either, and last I heard Interstate made their batts.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

fastpappy said:
I've tried the Rotella T6 in the past and while I didn't have any trouble shifting I found that when I switched back to the 20W50 the shifts were much better. More positive, smoother etc. So I've been using the Mobil 1 motorcycle specific 20W50 I think it actually claims to be formulated for V Twins. I figure if it works for an air cooled Twin should be fine for the Feej.

I'm glad the Mobile 1 motorcycle oil works for you. Here is some more pertinent data that may be of use if things change in the future with your bike. This apparent YCCS problem has reportedly occurred with several of our forum members' AEs at around 26,000 miles. I rather doubt that my problem was the clutch plates, but I suspect something like a sticky solenoid, valve or other YCCS component part that is exposed to the oil. This is why I suspected the oil: My last bike was a 1996 Yamaha Virago 1100. This bike, like most Japanese bikes that I am aware of, has a 'wet clutch' (that is to say, immersed, or bathed in the 'engine oil'. I am a fan of the purported advantages of Synthetic oils, and decided to use it in my Virago. First I researched this application, and found that, many Japanese bikes of my vintage, or earlier had problems with Synthetic oils. These problems were with the 'oil bath' clutch, not with the engine lubrication abilities of the Syns. I decided I liked the Amsoil for my Virago. I called their techs and expressed my concerns about this oil with my clutch. They basically told me, "no worries, it will be fine because we have put no friction modifiers especiallay 'Moly' into our oil." Sounded good to me, and it seemed to work pretty well for a while. BUT, after several hundred miles a strange phenomenon occurred. Instead of my Virago clutch slipping, or some such, because the Syn was so slippery, it became VERY difficult to upshift. I was close to home when this quickly became SOP, so I made it home but almost broke my toes pulling the damn thing up into a higher gear. I switched to as close as I could get to 20/40 dinosaur oil, and went for a ride. STILL tough to shift, but after two or three miles it became somewhat easier, and after about 20 miles it felt like its 'happy shifting' old self. Some newer wet clutches have no problem with Amsoil or, presumably, with other Syns.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

RossKean said:
I can't imagine how/why Rotella T6 could be the culprit. At cooler temperatures, it would be less viscous than the 20W50. (It is a 5W40). Maybe your AE likes the higher viscosity?? I doubt it is related to some magical additive. It will be interesting to see whether others share your experience.

I mistakenly called the Rotella T6 a 20/50 weight. In fact, the T6 I purchased from Walmart, and put in my bike is, as you say, 05/40. I do not believe the weight of the oil is a factor in the problem I had. I say 'had' hoping this problem does not occur again. I hear that the YCCS Actuator is around $1400 to replace if it goes bad. Ouch

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

Top_Speed1 said:
Gotta luv these oil threads.Whether T6 is the cause or not just makes me wanna stay with my easy to obtain, Wallyworldz packaged 5 gal jug of Mobil1.

I may try the Mobile 1 (bout $5.50 per quart at Costco) at some point if I can find somebody to tell me it has NO friction modifiers.

mcatrophy · Mar 5, 2013

Hadn't picked up on the "runs rough" whilst refusing to change into gear. Can't see any way that the oil could make the engine run rough. That, and without an error code, it's beginning to sound electrical.

Has your '06 had its spider recall? Could you have disturbed any wiring during the oil/filter change (don't see why you should)? Are the battery connections tight? Could be something as daft as that.

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

mcatrophy said:
Hadn't picked up on the "runs rough" whilst refusing to change into gear. Can't see any way that the oil could make the engine run rough. That, and without an error code, it's beginning to sound electrical.
Has your '06 had its spider recall? Could you have disturbed any wiring during the oil/filter change (don't see why you should)? Are the battery connections tight? Could be something as daft as that.

All recalls done. I tend to agree with you regarding "electrical" problem, but only so far, for instance, as an electrically operated valve, or solenoid plunger that is exposed to the oil, sticks, and causes a current overdraw that affects the ignition system. A few here believe that shorted wires in the right grip of the 'heated grips' system were causing this symptom in their AEs. Maybe, but it seems to me that if the heated grips are turned off, there should be no voltage at the right grip, and the ignition problem would cease. My bike behaved the same with the heated grips were on, or off, and the heated grips work fine too. (All AEs came with heated grips. Don't leave home without them.)

Also: I replaced the battery just in case. The problem remained the same. Again, I do not think the clutch plates were my problem in this instance. In fact, when the shift system was working properly, which was most of the time, I, very subjectively, think the clutch was slightly more positive in its function with the T6.

Top_Speed1 · Mar 5, 2013

Gotta luv these oil threads.Whether T6 is the cause or not just makes me wanna stay with my easy to obtain, Wallyworldz packaged 5 gal jug of Mobil1.

Click to expand...

I may try the Mobile 1 (bout $5.50 per quart at Costco) at some point if I can find somebody to tell me it has NO friction modifiers.

Well I hope you get to the bottom of this, I hear a lot of folks that use T6 with excellent results (not sure on AE vs. A differences however). The Mobil1 has done good by me but who's to say at a certain mileage I get what you are experiencing. I hope it's not an oil thing as this should have come out a long time ago (you would think, right?)

willboe · Mar 5, 2013

Top_Speed1 said:
Gotta luv these oil threads.Whether T6 is the cause or not just makes me wanna stay with my easy to obtain, Wallyworldz packaged 5 gal jug of Mobil1.

Click to expand...

I may try the Mobile 1 (bout $5.50 per quart at Costco) at some point if I can find somebody to tell me it has NO friction modifiers.

Click to expand...

Well I hope you get to the bottom of this, I hear a lot of folks that use T6 with excellent results (not sure on AE vs. A differences however). The Mobil1 has done good by me but who's to say at a certain mileage I get what you are experiencing. I hope it's not an oil thing as this should have come out a long time ago (you would think, right?)

I like your logic, but the AE was never a huge seller, and my 2006 was the first year, and just now has 28K miles on it, and the YCCS system seems pretty darn reliable, but just now some of those systems are getting older, and high-ish miles like mine.

I love the AE by the way.

AND diesel oils do have several additives: high temp, friction, etc., and a valve or solenoid plunger (?) may be just dirty enough, or worn enough to respond to those additives and stick when cold.

AE blinky 'Shift' light, Runs Rough, Won't shift into first, around 26K miles, etc.

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