Brackets for aux lights

jet mechanic, I was being too much of a perfectionist. You are right, coupling nuts will work just fine to hold the mirrors on while you evaluate the spacers.

If this project goes to the next level where these things are permanently mounted, standoffs could be ordered at that time.

madmike2 said:

but how about threaded rod and coupling nuts?

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If you have enough "shoulder" room in the spacers to contain the couplers. A little blue locktite would be as good or better than lock/jam nuts.

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The counterbore is plenty deep.

jet mechanic said:

I found the correct sizes at metricmcc.com .

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I checked out that website, and their coupling nuts look like the hex to drive them is only in the middle.



These from McMaster-Carr should work:



The McMaster-Carr part number is 93020A775 and the description is:

Black-Oxide Steel Coupling Nut M6 Screw, 16mm Length, 13mm Width, 1mm Pitch

I did not get any ordered. I do have the spacers designed. I did not get them cut today. There will be a right and a left.

-Joe

Skyway did a drawing of an extender here. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...mp;#entry293278

This might help Joe with the revival of this project.

Joe,

If you haven't ordered the rod and coupling nuts yet, I can order them here and just have them ship direct. Will PM you.

pickax said:

Skyway did a drawing of an extender here. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...mp;#entry293278
This might help Joe with the revival of this project.

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This idea is using the same premise Ian did, but has arrived at a different solution. Rather than using the spacer as a coupler for the mirror-subframe interface, they are trying to use it as a "pure" spacer by using an extender-coupler so the studs secure the mirror to the subframe.

I think the outside design is similar because of one constant factor, i.e., the shape of the mirror base.

They are now well into a test procedure and we are waiting the results of the installation and ride testing for vibration and mirror shake because of the extended placement of the mirrors themselves.

pickax, Thanks for that link. I explored the possibility of offsetting the fasteners (as skyway did). The problem is that one must choose if the spacer is going to line up with the mirror, or the existing rubber dampener. A drawing or photo would really help here, and it's a little frustrating that I don't have the time to hunt one down right now.

Between the fairing and the mirrors is a rubber piece. This piece is oval with two holes in it. The holes are asymmetrical. Although they are the same diameter, they do not mirror each other on any center line of the part. The part is located on two collars (flanged bushings) which protrude out of the fairing. So, if the spacer is aligned with the mirror (shape and mounting holes) it must also line up with the rubber dampener (shape and mounting holes) or it won't look right. I'll post images of the CAD models early next week. That probably still won't show what I mean, but they look kinda cool.

Edit (12/8/2007 8:38 PM): After I hit the 'submit' button, I thought of a way that offsetting the fasteners might work. That will have to wait for revision2 though.

The exception to all of this will be apparent later (if this proof of concept business pans out).

I hope this helps and I will share more later, but now it's back to homework.

One last thing… Thanks madmike2. If it hadn’t been for your persistent interest in this, it would have stayed on the back burner.

Thanks MM2 and Joe, it does sound like a strong mount this way. I see the problem with the asthetics of the offset mounting.

Glad to see some great minds at work on this, it is hugely appreciated.

Here's an update. The revision1 spacers have been machined and shipped. Hopefully jet mechanic will not have any surprises.

If you look carefully, you can see the difference between the right and the left.



The counterbores are that big so the coupling nuts will fit.

left side:



The coupling nuts grab the mirror studs and hold the mirror to the spacer. Then, threaded rod is screwed into the coupling nuts, and become the extended mirror studs.

How thick is the shoulder outside the counterbore? It looks "thin" to me. If made from aluminum it will probably be okay, but Delrin might be a bit fragile. I guess the "test fit/ride" will tell all.

holy crap - congratulations on going the extra mile, Joe. I just stopped in to check on this thread and you guys are already prototyping!

madmike2 said:

How thick is the shoulder outside the counterbore? It looks "thin" to me. If made from aluminum it will probably be okay, but Delrin might be a bit fragile. I guess the "test fit/ride" will tell all.

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That was only necessary for this pair. Using off-the-shelf fasteners allows jet mechanic to try out the spacers sooner. One of the downsides was that I had to work around the dimensions of the coupling nuts. As it is, he won't be able to get a socket on the coupling nuts. If I had allowed for that too, the counterbores would have been breaking out of the sidewalls. I think it will work though.

I'm anxious to see what they look like on the bike and if there is any improvement in the rear view.

Jazzzzz said:

holy crap - congratulations on going the extra mile, Joe. I just stopped in to check on this thread and you guys are already prototyping!

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And, I managed to get two out of three final assignments done

Now, I just need to crank out that last one :yahoo:

Looking good guys.

One possibility would be to make the spacer a bit larger than the outside dimension of the mirror bases. You'd then have to make new rubber gaskets for the interface to the faring surface, but that would be pretty cheap and easy, one would think. Some old inner tubes would provide all the material you'd need for that. The larger size would allow the loads to be spread out further increasing the likelihood they would not shake, and give you more room to hide your counterbores. If the mirror to spacer interface looked bad at that point you could just chamfer/bevel the edge down to the size of the mirror base.

Just a thought I had from looking at the pics.

Joe2Lmaker said:

One of the downsides was that I had to work around the dimensions of the coupling nuts. As it is, he won't be able to get a socket on the coupling nuts. If I had allowed for that too, the counterbores would have been breaking out of the sidewalls. I think it will work though.
I'm anxious to see what they look like on the bike and if there is any improvement in the rear view.

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I understand. I assumed he'd use "jam nuts" to install the extensions as theu should protrude enough for that. If needed, after fitting and trial you could always make the next set .o625-.125" larger around that area.

And, I managed to get two out of three final assignments done Now, I just need to crank out that last one :yahoo:

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Congratulations! If you're like me, it takes a lot of time and effort to get the final papers done and turned in. I'd keep great notes and have a working outline, but typing everything out takes time. Of course, we didn't nave computers in those days, so a work-in-progress was on paper. :blink:

Very nice work on the mirror spacers. I'll be crossing my fingers while awaiting the trial results. This could be a great farkle for the NewGen owners. AND it will work with any light brackets currently being made for the FJR!

Joe,

Received your spacers today. I had a couple of problems during the install. I sent you a email with all the details. Considering that these are the prototypes, it looks pretty promising. Will contact you tommorrow with the results of the test drive.

jet mechanic said:

Joe,Received your spacers today. I had a couple of problems during the install. I sent you a email with all the details. Considering that these are the prototypes, it looks pretty promising. Will contact you tommorrow with the results of the test drive.

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[SIZE=12pt]Pictures!!! We need pictures![/SIZE]

Anxiously awaiting the results of the test rides........

I'm very impressed with the development work done. I would love to be able to move my mirrors out far enough to get a clear rearward view. Shifting and straining to see back is not safe. I'll be following this thread closely.

Good job, guys!

Kurt

OK everyone who's interested,

Here are a few of the photos of the mirror spacer install, a couple of observations and some problems. Feel free to critique.

Didn't get to do a test drive due to weather, but tomorrow (Sunday) promises to be sunny and dry.

The basic installation was to install the spacer over the mirror studs, coupling nuts onto the mirror studs securing the spacer to the mirror, threaded rod into the exposed end of the coupling nut, then placing the built up assembly onto the fairing and securing using the original nuts.

First picture, the basic parts of the install kit.



One of the first problems was that the mirror studs were almost the same length as the spacer. This allowed only 2 to 3 threads of engagement for the threaded rod. In the second picture you can see the mirror studs almost at the end of the coupling nut.

Second picture



Another problem was the coupling nut could only be hand tightened into the spacer. There was only enough room for a fine pair of needle nose pliers to tq the coupling nut. Not a problem right away but it could loosen up slightly and cause a vibration in the mirror. I was going to cut a slot across the face of the coupling nut and tighten it up with a screwdriver, but I would be cutting into those 2 to 3 threads that engage the threaded rod, so I passed on that.

The next problem was those 2 to 3 threads of engagement for the threaded rod. Even using locktite on the threaded rod into the coupling nut and nylok nuts on the inside of the fairing, I just don't think there is enough thread engagement to stand up to vibrations and air loads at higher speeds. IMO

But I went ahead and installed them. The next two pictures show the left side and the front end.

Third and fourth pictures





Now a couple of observations.

The spacers didn't really move the mirrors to far "out". They went more forward due to the contour of the fairing. The measurement from the o/s tip of the mirror to the other o/s tip went from 37.75 to 38.75. Just that one inch made a difference in seeing behind me. Parked 3 feet in front of the garage door I could just see the edges of one of the vertical metal supports on the door in both mirrors. Unfortunately I had the mirrors turned in to do this, but before the spacers I couldn't see the support at all. So at least we're going in the right direction.

Joe2lmaker is already planning another prototype to hopefully fix most of these problems.

I'll still do a test ride to check them out for vibrations and line of sight behind me, will post the results Sunday night.

So...you guys are headed in the right direction. That's what test fittings are supposed to reveal. I assume the next iteration will be "offset" to account for the forward "throw" of the fairing shape and be able to attain a wider stance on the mirrors.

I think that's why the FZ-1 swap works so well. the stalks are longer but the direction of that length is out and back where these spacers are out and forward. These spacer look pretty good on the bike. Longer term will tell if there are any vibration or wind affect on the assembly.

Isn't R & D fun?!?!?! <_<

Because the Gen 2 mirrors are pretty busy in the stalk area, just from aesthetics, the spacer looks too small and thin. I would make the spacer bigger around and longer. Making it bigger would allow a larger counter bore for the coupler nuts so you could get a thin wall socket. Making them longer would help get the mirrors further out where they need to be and also allow more threads of the couple engagement without cutting the stock mirror studs.

This second gen "mirror on a stick" isn't likely to become a thing of beauty.

I'm still thinking the FZ1's are the way to go. They aren't that bad looking...

jet mechanic; It looks like the studs on your '07 mirrors are longer than what I have on my '06. I wonder why. When you have everything assembled in the stock confuguration, is there quite a bit of thread extending beyond the flanged nut? That would be welcome news for everyone wanting to install brackets under the mirors.

I don't think you need to road-test that set of spacers. Let's wait for Revision2. And absolutely do not cut your mirror studs. O.K.?

I'm working on figuring out the angles now.



In order to move the mirrors out to the side, the spacers will take a shape more like this:



Fred; Revision2 probably won't utilize coupling nuts. I think I figured out a way around having to use those.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally don't like the the FZ1 mirrors. To me they look like something out of A Bug's Life

Plus, this set of spacers was cut from black Nylon MDS. The material has shiny swirls in it and I think they look really good. I cut the prototypes out some scraps that were lying around. The finished spacers won't be plastic... I'm just saying that I like the looks of the quick and dirty prototypes.

"Mirror on a Stick"... I like it. "Mirror on a Stick Mod"... not very dignified, but I like it.

I haven't priced a set of FZ1 mirrors. I just assumed that spacers could be made for about a third of the cost, plus there is less waste because you’re not tossing perfectly good mirrors in the trash.

What does a pair of FZ1 mirrors cost?

Joe - I'm impressed as hell!

Not only are you doing this off the side of your (already busy) desk, but you're taking on a problem that has been voiced by many. I can't see much more than my elbows from my 06 mirrors - which I think is rather a pity because the FJR is such an exceptional bike in terms of function and performance in so many other ways. Why put semi-functional mirrors on an exceptional bike - even if they do look really cool?

I'm watching the progression of your plans and very much look forward to seeing the Macaroni Mirror Mounts take shape.

Good luck!

PS - I'm still very interested in buying a pair once you've got them dialled in. One day - I'll see past the arms of my jacket :yahoo: