Mini-Rant from Reno ..... suggetsions moving forward?

Here is a Saturday morning Mini-Rant from Reno.

Let me preface by saying I'm pretty good at looking at the cup half full, I rarely ***** and in 8years on Ebay, I've earned a stellar track record. And, in 8years I've never left negative feedback to any buyer or seller. The latter might be about to change.

Ran across this thread where this action was taking place, by a forum member.

Hmmm, Staintunes, hard to find, expensive and something I've always wanted.

Description goes like this:



and the ebay pics:







Hmm, far from perfect, but I can live with that, guy seems forthcoming. I know 604Stainless can be buffed out pretty good, and he says "scratches". Then questions come up and he publicly answers, hmm, that is a good sign me thinks, seems forthcoming. Missing clamp, no big deal. I ask about the factory-included restrictors -he is forthcoming saying he doesn't see them. I have a set or restrictors left over from another set, so I'm hopeful they'll fit these pipes, no big deal me thinks.

I'm in, I decide to make a run at these.

I win! Yeah! me thinks. Got them for $388, pretty fair price for the less than perfect condition me thinks. I pay within seconds of the auction end.

Seller ships ASAP, gosh another good sign ....

...and even the USPS didn't **** up and a couple days later they're on my doorstep. Yeah! me thinks.

Nice packaging, not bad at all for used exhaust, yet another good sign.

But instantly I see some things:











Uhhh, I think this is significantly worse than described. Scratches? sure scratches, but no mention of the deep SCRAPES. and even worse, no mention at all of the NUMEROUS DENTS. Jeezers I thought back to the sellers description:

"You have to look close to see these imperfections".

Uhh, I don't think so.

So, a bit disappointed but realize life ain't perfect, I send the seller a note via Ebay. A nice but direct note IMO. I won't post what the seller likely considers private communication, but I will post his last words to me after some ridiculous self-hype ramble:

"....Anyways, once you take one test ride with these on your FJR I know you?ll be grinning. Good luck in the future."

LOL, you have got to be kidding me, and this is when I almost lost my smile and good-nature d disposition.

So, now I'm taking deep breath, putting a smile on my face and wondering:

* should I leave negative feedback for this guy?

* how much effort should I put into this exhaust? Even before receiving the pipes, I had already known I'd be spending some time working on the "scratches" that were described. 604stainless steel can be buffed with some work. BUT that works a bit for scratches, buffing won't help the scrapes or dents.

I'm really not sure what I'm going to do with these, or how I should proceed with the seller. I'm really not sure what options I have available.

only half smiling in Reno ....John

Interesting.

Looking at the forum member's profile, he's made 7 posts since becoming a member in May of last year.

The pictures as shown on the Ebay post aren't really detailed or close enough to show the damage that your pictures display.

Hmmm... and now he's selling his bike.

I wonder what his reaction to this post will be. :blink:

Well I think he should provide a refund including shipping charges. Clearly he could have posted pics that showed that damage. Sorry the deal went sour. I've had pretty good deals from ebay until the last one. It took over a month to get the guy to ship a nice tailbag and with poor communication I was fired up. Turns out he was really just busy working long hours and offered $20 off. I said just ship it and we will be good. In your case I doubt anyone would have bid more than $100 on those.

Tough break Reno, the guy certainly isn't honest and should give you your money back!

Problem being if he wasn't honest enough to tell it square he most likly won't send your money back.

I remember buying some parts once from a decent guy for my sons 69 Mustang, the short story is the payment thru payal didn't go thru right away and I notified payal that they needed to get off thier collective donkey and send the money. Next thing I know I'm being flamed by the decent guy I was buying the part from (a darn ash tray with a cigar lighter) because they told him I was complaining about him not sending the parts. Three weeks and a trip down to Oregon and some hart burn it all worked out.

Moral only flame him if you good at letting things go.

Can you make them look decent from the top side? Can you put them on and enjoy the music they make and not look back.

Good luck.

Well, too bad. How do they sound? And what are you replacing if you keep them? Will we be seeing another set of after-market pipes up for sale soon?

Can't think of any reason not to expose the seller for being--at least--misleading, since you seemed to be asking. I didn't get it at first that the seller was the same forum FNG you linked to. I think that's the kind of thing we should all know about--here and on Ebay. That **** shouldn't fly.

p.s., if he puts the bike up here, I'd pass. <_<

"You have to look close to see these imperfections". :angry:

Only if he means that IF you already know these things are beaten to friggin death, looking close at the pictures he posted on eBay show more than a reflection -- they show scratches hidden in the reflections/shadows. Looks like he probably took lots of pictures and posted the ones that least showed the damage. I'd be furious at receiving something so literally beaten to death that I wouldn't want to put them on my bike.

Sorry you ran into such a tool, RJ. I'd REAM him with the negative feedback I'd leave. (And like you, I've never yet left negative feedback on anyone on eBay, Gunbroker, etc. -- this kinda BS would be my first exception.)

SacramentoMike said:

p.s., if he puts the bike up here, I'd pass. <_<

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Mike, if he posts his bike on this site, I'll one up that, break forum rules and rip him a new ******* in the classified section. :angry:

EDIT to add: And the pipe damage came from: "The left pipe has cosmetic scratches from a low speed lay down and the right pipe has marks just from handling in the garage." Yeah, right! Check out his listing for the bike itself, where it says: "It will be sold to the highest bidder and comes with an Oregon reconstructed title. Do your homework on what this means in your state."** He goes on to say that it only had cosmetic damage to the plastic. Doesn't mention that it's got '03 lowers on what he's selling as an '05, and the paint may or may not match from those pics (given RJ's hedz-up to be really careful about looking closely at this seller's pics).

[SIZE=12pt]I.e., he's selling a salvage title bike!!! Nice! [/SIZE]

** So, with his posted history of the bike in the bike auction, it kinda begs a couple questions about what he represented in the Staintunes auction -- like how he'd know it was a "low speed lay down" that damaged the left pipe and that the right pipe damage really was the result of "handling in the garage"

exskibum said:

SacramentoMike said:

p.s., if he puts the bike up here, I'd pass. <_<

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Mike, if he posts his bike on this site, I'll one up that, break forum rules and rip him a new ******* in the classified section. :angry:

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The primary reason I posted this up, ....is because he has posted the bike up here, go to the first link on my initial post, you'll see he puts a link to the bike on Ebay, closes tomorrow. He did did this AFTER the pipes sold, likely to hide what the former skibum uncovered on the title.

Now, I'm personally not a believer in the forum admin's acting on the behalf of any party, seems when they do, things just get worse ;-) I also don't like edit's/deletes or thought police.

But I do believe there should be a fair grass-roots checks/balances in place .....

I personally decided to call this guy out publicly because:

a.) I truly think he was misleading in his description and pictures

b.) his 'better luck in the future" reply to my nice note voicing dissatisfaction is not acceptable to me.

c.) He has an active link on here to another item, IMO he is likely to be deceptive on that item as well, perhaps my experience can give forum members some food-for-thought.

exskibum said:

"You have to look close to see these imperfections". :angry: Looks like he probably took lots of pictures and posted the ones that least showed the damage.

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And..., retailers don't commonly show product in the most advantageous light/profile? That's proper marketing...

I'm not very 'ebay savvy' -- but isn't there recourse for retuning items bought?

I understand the frustration -- but... used parts :huh: (and ones that were said to be damaged, at that...)

Used parts... :huh: -- probably the place where the term: caveat emptor was invented...?

Old story: guy came into a m/c shop that sold used-parts asking for a (used) Burman gearbox -- the shop guy went into a back room and came out with one and said "$$$ -- exchange". The customer provided the exchange gearbox and the money and the shop guy put the 'exchange'-used-Burman-gearbox on the shelf in the back room.

I'm with you John. Good on ya for callin' him out.

In all my transactions with folks here I've never had a bad one, and I beleive when one does happen It's only right to let others know.

:jester:

charismaticmegafauna said:

exskibum said:

"You have to look close to see these imperfections". :angry: Looks like he probably took lots of pictures and posted the ones that least showed the damage.

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And..., retailers don't commonly show product in the most advantageous light/profile? That's proper marketing...

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It depends on the model. Yeah, that's "proper marketing" in a plunder capitalism* marketing model.

Internet auction sites seem to be getting worse for misrepresentations and general BS lately -- maybe that has to do with the economy, maybe not. Either way, even if he posted pics that didn't show the damage well enough, the fact is that he minimized what was there in his statement about having to look closely to even see it. That's clearly not the case.

* **** whoever you can, as often as you can, and as hard as you can -- the only thing that counts is the money, and the rule is that unless you can go to jail for it, it isn't unethical

It takes balls asking money for those pipes. I'd a tipped them into the garbage can after the insurance company paid off. And left them there.

Doesn't e-bay offer a buyer guarantee ?

John can you not get your money back thru Paypal?????

Send them back......

R

charismaticmegafauna said:

And..., retailers don't commonly show product in the most advantageous light/profile? That's proper marketing...

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LOL, you that this guy a two peas-in-a-pod. remind me not to buy anything from you, IMO misrepresenting damage is not proper marketing.luv ya dude, but I won't be buying anything from ya

Bustanut joker said:

I'm with you John. Good on ya for callin' him out.
In all my transactions with folks here I've never had a bad one, and I beleive when one does happen It's only right to let others know.

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Bad ones here, but never Ebay. I've been lucky and if this is the worst thing to happen then it's been a good run. But I agree, it should be called out.

fjrchooser said:

Doesn't e-bay offer a buyer guarantee ?

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Because I've never had a problem, in 8years and aprox 150transactions, I don't know. Maybe someone can give some insight.

Fairlaner said:

John can you not get your money back thru Paypal?????Send them back......

R

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Hmmm, is it that easy??

I'm going to continue to hold my "deep breath' see if the seller replies to my last note, and then decide what to do, or not. Not worth getting one's panties in a wad, but IMO worth calling this guy out. --ESPECIALLY after seeing what the former skibum exposed about the tittle on the bike ...and no coincidence IMO that the exhaust got posted up first.

I might just order up some titanium muzzy's, ...or perhaps wait another 6years for a decent deal on Staintunes.

RJ -- I don't see enough here to call it fraud, but don't rely on my first take on that (you know -- usual disclaimer). He was clever in his wording and it looks like he was selling pipes in **** condition, which he knew was likely to be misperceived, but that too little money was at stake for anyone to really do anything about it, but . . .

if I thought something like this qualified as interstate mail fraud by use of the mails or internet, this would be one of the first places I'd seek assistance:

Internet Crime Complaint Center

(Provided as a FYI for anyone reading this thread.)

We've been having a similar discussion over on a gun forum I frequent about what appears to be actionable fraud in one case of dealing collectors firearms. A little more $$ at stake there, potential federal alphabet agency interest and the victim has a friend in the FBI, as well as a lawyer who is apparently filing a civil action in the victim's state according to venue rules permitting it there. Collection ideas have been . . . interesting.

BTW, I saw your seller-tool's link to the bike auction in his Staintune thread, didn't see that he'd separately posted in the forum classifieds even after running his "recent posts".

Holy ****! Now I am really glad I didn't win those things! Better you than me, babe!

You have every right to be totally pissed off. The ebay ad was completely misleading.

If I were you, I would plainly state that based his (seller's) inaccurate description, the item is not at all what you wanted and you want a full refund including shipping. If he doesn't comply with that, I would flame him as hard and as often as I could in every venue I could find.

****, those pipes aren't good enough to go on the Dirty Ol Whore, much less your new pristine virgin.

Bummer, dude. Sorry you have to go through this.

exskibum said:

BTW, I saw your seller-tool's link to the bike auction in his Staintune thread, didn't see that he'd separately posted in the forum classifieds even after running his "recent posts".

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You is correct, same thread. post here(clicky)

SkooterG said:

Holy ****! Now I am really glad I didn't win those things! Better you than me, babe!
You have every right to be totally pissed off. The ebay ad was completely misleading.

If I were you, I would plainly state that based his (seller's) inaccurate description, the item is not at all what you wanted and you want a full refund including shipping. If he doesn't comply with that, I would flame him as hard and as often as I could in every venue I could find.

****, those pipes aren't good enough to go on the Dirty Ol Whore, much less your new pristine virgin.

Bummer, dude. Sorry you have to go through this.

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HAHAHA, you know it babe.

Hey, everything for the virgin bike has been coming along wonderfully, so this is very minor speed-bump when looking at the big picture.

And yep, If I wanted dicked-up exhaust like this, you know I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself, I'd likely enjoy the fun of thrashing about like that.

Greg, I too am glad you didn't end up with them, while I'm not happy I ended up with them, such is life and I'll try to figure out the easiest/best steps forward. Maybe a ride to Portland to have a face2face with this guy. The rose city is beautiful in the spring.

File a dispute with pay pal and see what happens, at the very minimum his account will be frozen for a while.

R

The guys a big A-hole! Sure ya would like to tell him I'm gonna come over & put some more dents in them on your head ya freekin lie'n creep!,

kaitsdad said:

I wonder what his reaction to this post will be. :blink:

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Well, he was last seen around here an hour ago, is no longer on the site, and apparently didn't post. I HOPE he manned up and offered RJ his money back, instead of just slinking off with cash in pocket.