Mini-Rant from Reno ..... suggetsions moving forward?

[FJRBluesman]

John - PM me.

 

[exskibum]

One assumes you have daredevildoo's proper name and address........ :huh:

and yes, thanks to our friend google and some friends in Portland, I got much more than an address.

Well, I KNEW you must have his e-mail address if you used PayPal to pay him. You might consider publishing his name, e-mail address, etc.

I'd be a lot more pissed than you, RJ, if I was shipped wrecked cans for nearly $400. I don't give a shit what they cost new; if I'd wanted crashed ones, I'd have looked for crashed cans at salvage yards. I really, really seethe at dishonest stuff like this, and as you know, I can "afford" to engage in recreational litigation over sums most would blow off. :evil: :evil:

So, if he had responded to me with that "good luck next time" blow off, I'm afraid I'd have gotten "a hard on for him" (a term of art in my trade). First thing I'd do is pursue possible remedies through eBay and PayPal. Even if I couldn't get satisfaction there, I'd be a long way from done (I pride myself on being a reasonable guy until fucked with in a dishonest way, and then . . . willing and able to out-escalate almost anyone.) So . . .

The next thing I'd do is check the venue requirements in my state to see if I could bring an internet fraud/constructive fraud/rescission action against the asshat in MY state. For that amount of money, it'd be a small claims case, even if I could avail myself of a trebling of damages that is sometimes available with deceit type thievery like fraud. I'd file and get him served in Oregon and take my judgment down here. I'd then get it entered as a sister state judgment in his state. Then I'd do some research on every piece of real property he owns and record an abstract of judgment against each property in each county in which it is located. If that didn't have an effect, I'd contact a collection agency doing business in Oregon and talk to them about assigning my judgment to them, even if for nothing, just to sic those blood suckers on him, while providing them with the benefit of the full proctological examination I would have done on him and what he has and does, including the fact that he is a prolific eBay seller who likely has attachable assets and probably some receivables through PayPal.

That last part is only likely IF he didn't further piss me off enough to make me decide to go to Oregon personally for the real fun. I'm reasonably sure they have a process like California's Order of Examination, in which he has to show up under threat of a bench warrant to answer my questions under oath about every bank account and asset he has from which I might get my judgment satisfied. Oh . . . there's more goodies in that process, too -- like writs of attachment. :evil: :evil:

Like I said . . .

He's lucky he had anal intercourse with a comparatively nice guy in Reno. "Good luck next time" ?!? As in good luck finding someone who won't F#@% you next transaction?!? My compassion valve blows at that shit and I'm afraid that I'd make keeping my money the hardest $380 he ever stole.

 

[El Toro]

You can open a dispute, as others have said. If I felt someone had misrepresented something that I'd "won" for $400, I'd probably open a dispute. I looked pretty carefully at the pictures, and I think you were mislead by his description, which was obviously optimistic. I think the pictures are real and are of the same pipes as you were sent ... but I also think that his pictures were specifically designed to not draw attention to the major cosmetic flaws from which these pipes suffer.

It could be an "honest error." When I listed my FJR AE the other day on the forum here I first made the statement that the little scratches on the lower cowl were almost impossible to see. Then I realized that I was sugar coating some inch long scratches that aren't noticeable if you're not looking for them, but once you start to look, they're easy enough to see. So about two minutes after I posted the classified ad, I went back and edited it to be clearer from a potential buyer's prospective.

Sellers do tend to be overly optimistic about their stuff sometimes. I've been through a few hundred transactions on ebay, and I got screwed twice. Once I got screwed by a dishonest multi-lister who was selling marque clocks without marque permission. Instead of giving him negative feedback, I reported every one of his listings, every day, until ebay shut him down and he was gone. I figured that my loss on the cheap chinese clock with an unauthorized marque sticker over the face, which had been carefully advertised to appear to be a vintage, was tuition.

The second time I got screwed a guy in New Zealand "sold" me an original tool I'd been chasing to make my 1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor totally complete. I offered to pay him extra for rapid shipping by air. He wasn't interested and insisted on a lower cost shipping method. He took me for about $25 with shipping and the cost of the tool. I would have gladly given $100 for the tool with shipping, but I guess he figured that if he screwed me out of $25, I would be less likely to go after him. He was right. I showed great patience while he explained that his hospitalization had caused him to lose my order, and that it would ship eventually. Of course it never did.

You've been had for a lot more bucks. I would open a dispute through paypal if you used paypal. If you didn't, I'd open it through ebay. This guy appears to be a heavy ebay user from his feedback numbers. He probably doesn't need the headache of dealing with a dispute. Your best argument is that the description minimized the damage, and the photos did not clearly show the extent of the damage.

Good luck. If you resold these honestly, you could probably get something for them, maybe even something close to what you paid. Folks are chasin' these pipes. I won't go into the lecture about the legality of the aftermarket exhaust mods.

 

[RenoJohn]

You can open a dispute, as others have said. If I felt someone had misrepresented something that I'd "won" for $400, I'd probably open a dispute. I looked pretty carefully at the pictures, and I think you were mislead by his description, which was obviously optimistic. I think the pictures are real and are of the same pipes as you were sent ... but I also think that his pictures were specifically designed to not draw attention to the major cosmetic flaws from which these pipes suffer.
It could be an "honest error." When I listed my FJR AE the other day on the forum here I first made the statement that the little scratches on the lower cowl were almost impossible to see. Then I realized that I was sugar coating some inch long scratches that aren't noticeable if you're not looking for them, but once you start to look, they're easy enough to see. So about two minutes after I posted the classified ad, I went back and edited it to be clearer from a potential buyer's prospective.

Sellers do tend to be overly optimistic about their stuff sometimes. I've been through a few hundred transactions on ebay, and I got screwed twice. Once I got screwed by a dishonest multi-lister who was selling marque clocks without marque permission. Instead of giving him negative feedback, I reported every one of his listings, every day, until ebay shut him down and he was gone. I figured that my loss on the cheap chinese clock with an unauthorized marque sticker over the face, which had been carefully advertised to appear to be a vintage, was tuition.

The second time I got screwed a guy in New Zealand "sold" me an original tool I'd been chasing to make my 1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor totally complete. I offered to pay him extra for rapid shipping by air. He wasn't interested and insisted on a lower cost shipping method. He took me for about $25 with shipping and the cost of the tool. I would have gladly given $100 for the tool with shipping, but I guess he figured that if he screwed me out of $25, I would be less likely to go after him. He was right. I showed great patience while he explained that his hospitalization had caused him to lose my order, and that it would ship eventually. Of course it never did.

You've been had for a lot more bucks. I would open a dispute through paypal if you used paypal. If you didn't, I'd open it through ebay. This guy appears to be a heavy ebay user from his feedback numbers. He probably doesn't need the headache of dealing with a dispute. Your best argument is that the description minimized the damage, and the photos did not clearly show the extent of the damage.

Good luck. If you resold these honestly, you could probably get something for them, maybe even something close to what you paid. Folks are chasin' these pipes. I won't go into the lecture about the legality of the aftermarket exhaust mods.

Nice post, let me address a couple of your comments:

* It could be an "honest error." / Sellers do tend to be overly optimistic about their stuff sometimes.

* This guy appears to be a heavy ebay user from his feedback numbers. He probably doesn't need the headache of dealing with a dispute. Your best argument is that the description minimized the damage, and the photos did not clearly show the extent of the damage.

* If you resold these honestly, you could probably get something for them, maybe even something close to what you paid. Folks are chasin' these pipes.

+ At first I thought it might be an honest error, until he was so flippant after my initial note -then when I put together the timing of him listing the bike, and all the weird things with the bike ...and no doubt this exhaust was on that bike ...yada yada.

So, overly optimistic? yes, honest error?, no way.

+ Ya he is heavy (ebay), and I've opened the door for easy resolution. I've offered two good solutions, as well as agreed to hear any resolution ideas he has. To this point his last words to me: "Better luck next time"

+ Ya, folks are chasing these!! I've been waiting for 6years for decent price on Staintunes!! Trust me, I expected some scratches and gladly would have put up with a lot as I want them bad, but the damage to these is well beyond what he says.

 

[Wee Willy]

Item was misrepresented. Refund should be forthcoming. Under a definition of the "reasonable person" standard, this is a simple case of something we would not want to happen to ourselves. For reference, one common law legal idea of a "reasonable person" states: A phrase used to denote a hypothetical person who exercises qualities of attention, knowledge, intelligence, and judgment that society requires of its members for the protection of their own interest and the interests of others.

Point out that the pipes were misrepresented and you would like to return them for a full refund to include shipping.

Regards,

W2

 

[johnny80s]

This is interesting. Sorry this guy dicked you over John. I will be interested to see how you resolve this.

Note to self - Don't piss off exskibum... :nono:

 

[kolonial72]

When I first saw the pics, I said out loud, "Oh my f*$^ing god!" The pics he posted on fleabay were likely pre-wreck. In those pics, the cans probably only had minor scratches on them. You're a better man than I, RJ, 'cause I may have acted on my first impulse to lay those cans upside his head, all up-close and personal. Good luck in the future...I mean, I hope you get what's right on this one.

 

[El Toro]

Nice post, let me address a couple of your comments:
* It could be an "honest error." / Sellers do tend to be overly optimistic about their stuff sometimes.

* This guy appears to be a heavy ebay user from his feedback numbers. He probably doesn't need the headache of dealing with a dispute. Your best argument is that the description minimized the damage, and the photos did not clearly show the extent of the damage.

* If you resold these honestly, you could probably get something for them, maybe even something close to what you paid. Folks are chasin' these pipes.

+ At first I thought it might be an honest error, until he was so flippant after my initial note -then when I put together the timing of him listing the bike, and all the weird things with the bike ...and no doubt this exhaust was on that bike ...yada yada.

So, overly optimistic? yes, honest error?, no way.

+ Ya he is heavy (ebay), and I've opened the door for easy resolution. I've offered two good solutions, as well as agreed to hear any resolution ideas he has. To this point his last words to me: "Better luck next time"

+ Ya, folks are chasing these!! I've been waiting for 6years for decent price on Staintunes!! Trust me, I expected some scratches and gladly would have put up with a lot as I want them bad, but the damage to these is well beyond what he says.

I think you're right. If he blew you off, he's a jerk, and you will want to take the dispute to the end. I don't know why he thinks you'll go away. Your issue is at a high enough dollar value to make it worth sticking with it to resolution. He's gonna say you saw the pictures. And in spite of what others have said, if you look at the pictures, you can see dents. At least they look dented to me.

I agree that the damage is WAY beyond what he describes. That's where the BS is in his sale. He sounds like the kind of guy who makes ebay a risk. I wonder why his feedback is good. They compute feedback percentages these days using only the last 12 months of data. I would leave this guy negative feedback, although, like you I don't do it on a whim. On the bright side, under current ebay rules, he can't leave retaliatory feedback since you can't leave negative feedback for a buyer anymore. I wonder how crummy buyers are ratted out under the new rules. Maybe through paypal and disputes.

In any event, I know this is aggravating for you. I would be just as irked as you are. Any time you get jerked around, its a pain. I wish it were over and you had your money back.

 

[Aasland]

Paypal's resolution is skewed towards the buyer, so you'll probably come out ok.

 

[RenoJohn]

Note to self - Don't piss off exskibum... :nono:

LOL No SHIT, I pull the covers over my head when I read his rants ...and he's on MY side. Jeezers. And to think many people wonder what happened to Oscar Acosta since he went missing years back. Well, I think he's blown his cover and re-surfaced as exskibum.

Johnny, just wait until myself and skibum head to Tigard (Portland). Exskibum is Attorney Oscar Acosta without the baggage, but just as crazy. It is going to be a fear and loathing road trip and we gunna have some fun. For those not familiar with Oscar, I suggest a internet search, ...and my favorite quote about the guy came from the fear and loathing king himself:

[SIZE=8pt]" Oscar was not into serious street-fighting, but he was hell on wheels in a bar brawl. Any combination of a 250 lb Mexican and LSD-25 is a potentially terminal menace for anything it can reach - but when the alleged Mexican is in fact a profoundly angry Chicano lawyer with no fear at all of anything that walks on less than three legs and a de facto suicidal conviction that he will die at the age of 33 - just like Jesus Christ - you have a serious piece of work on your hands. Especially if the bastard is already 33 1/2 years old with a head full of Sandoz acid, a loaded .357 Magnum in his belt, a hatchet-wielding Chicano bodyguard on his elbow at all times, and a disconcerting habit of projectile vomiting geysers of pure blood off the front porch every 30 or 40 minutes, or whenever his malignant ulcer can't handle any more raw tequila."[/SIZE]

—Hunter S. Thompson, Rolling Stone #254, December 15, 1977

 

[RenoJohn]

So a new day and enough with this. I've done the paypal ebay crap in hopes that they'll help make this right. It's now been escalated to a "claim". because Ebay and Paypal are of the same blood-line now-a-days it is pretty much just one thing.

I have no idea what will happen, but I've offered up some fair solutions, am open to others. Only time will tell.

Personally, I don't fret over bad stuff, ...today is a new day.

This morning I took a look at the exhaust, just as yesterday, they're damaged. Folks who have seen my bikes, no I'm not anal about petty stuff on bikes. Abuse is par for hard riding. But even by my standards these exhaust are badly damaged and unacceptable. I went far because they are Staintunes, which IMO are the mecca of after-market exhaust.

But after years of wanting Staintunes, these were not meant to be, they may go back to the seller, should I end up with them I'll put a bit of work into them, and see. But I'm not dicking with them in the immediate future. Life is too good, these are bad karma.

I'm currently building up my 2nd FJR, I'm excited about how well things are coming together, really, some of it has been magic ...and this experience will not taint that.

While not Staintunes, a few minutes ago I ordered up these from the fatory:

Muzzy titanium slip-on's

I want to continue forward with the bike, and this experience will not slow me down. I've got Muzzy's on another bike, happy with them considering they're not Staintunes ..so I hope I like these on the FJR. Real curious if I can use my staintune restrictors in the Muzzy's(?) .....I'll soon find out.

Thanks for all the drama fun boyz and girlz ....I'll keep ya posted.

And SkiBum ...pack your bags ....I have a feelling we're going north to make a return.

 

[SkooterG]

You're gonna taint that purty virgin of an FJR with Muzzy's? Ain't I tought you anything yet?

Shoulda got the Holeshots!

 

[HYCLE]

Johnny, just wait until myself and skibum head to Tigard (Portland). Exskibum is Attorney Oscar Acosta without the baggage, but just as crazy. It is going to be a fear and loathing road trip and we gunna have some fun. For those not familiar with Oscar, I suggest a internet search, ...and my favorite quote about the guy came from the fear and loathing king himself:

Let me know when, I will be the guy in the cell with you saying, "Damn that was fun" :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :yahoo:

 

[exskibum]

And SkiBum ...pack your bags ....I have a feelling we're going north to make a return.

Looks like I may have to bump up my trip to Portland for a GP Suspension ride-in from the presently scheduled July appointment, then?

Good stuff quoting Dr. Thompson, RJ. I can't remember which came first -- reading "Hells Angels" or lying on my bed in a small apartment off Stanford Way in Sparks NV, Fall 1974 -- damn near rolling off the bed laughing from reading an article he wrote in either Rolling Stone or Playboy. I recall something about a memorable quote describing Gloria Allred, whom I'd never heard of back then -- something about a pissed off wolverine bitch whose foot had been stomped on, with some kinda retaliatory agenda -- good stuff. I was a big fan. RIP, Dr. GOnZo!

For the trip, acid is no longer on the menu, though -- brain just won't tolerate it anymore. I'll give my tabs to Hycle, and we'll let Mikey eat it. :hyper: And you can call me a pussy for admitting that my last snort of Tequila prolly came in a Margarita at Franciscos in Minden. Oscar woulda dug our modern laptops loaded with warfare forms, but I sold the .357 Python decades ago for food and rent money -- for far too little. Still gets under my skin, that one.

Love the Muzzy Ti cans. Only got one of 'em on my bike (with a bigger I.D. pass thru than you ordered) though, since I only got one place to strap it. The "quiet core" restrictors are (or were) $25 per from Muzzy -- nice sound without irritating the neighbors.

You know, if you end up with those ugly beater Staintunes around, what say that they become targets? I got a .44 Mag (that I've been lusting to find forever) to pick up on Tuesday. It'd ventilate those beaten rat cans nicely.

 

[johnny80s]

Johnny, just wait until myself and skibum head to Tigard (Portland). Exskibum is Attorney Oscar Acosta without the baggage, but just as crazy. It is going to be a fear and loathing road trip and we gunna have some fun. For those not familiar with Oscar, I suggest a internet search, ...and my favorite quote about the guy came from the fear and loathing king himself:

Let me know when, I will be the guy in the cell with you saying, "Damn that was fun" :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :yahoo:

Oh this sounds like fun... This would be a fun trip. I wonder how many guys we can get to go plus all the guys up there already from the forum.

Keep us all in the loop.

 

[RenoJohn]

You're gonna taint that purty virgin of an FJR with Muzzy's? Ain't I tought you anything yet?
Shoulda got the Holeshots!

Oh Blow me scrotum chin. I've looked at the Holeshots ...uhh, from my reaview mirror. No thanks

...seriously, I went with the Muzzy's as I have 'em on the dirt bike and relatively happy with them, AND because the factory was doing a close-out on display so what I think is a good price.

we'll see.

And SkiBum ...pack your bags ....I have a feelling we're going north to make a return.

Looks like I may have to bump up my trip to Portland for a GP Suspension ride-in from the presently scheduled July appointment, then?

Good stuff quoting Dr. Thompson, RJ. I can't remember which came first -- reading "Hells Angels" or lying on my bed in a small apartment off Stanford Way in Sparks NV, Fall 1974 -- damn near rolling off the bed laughing from reading an article he wrote in either Rolling Stone or Playboy. I recall something about a memorable quote describing Gloria Allred, whom I'd never heard of back then -- something about a pissed off wolverine bitch whose foot had been stomped on, with some kinda retaliatory agenda -- good stuff. I was a big fan. RIP, Dr. GOnZo!

For the trip, acid is no longer on the menu, though -- brain just won't tolerate it anymore. I'll give my tabs to Hycle, and we'll let Mikey eat it. :hyper: And you can call me a pussy for admitting that my last snort of Tequila prolly came in a Margarita at Franciscos in Minden. Oscar woulda dug our modern laptops loaded with warfare forms, but I sold the .357 Python decades ago for food and rent money -- for far too little. Still gets under my skin, that one.

Love the Muzzy Ti cans. Only got one of 'em on my bike (with a bigger I.D. pass thru than you ordered) though, since I only got one place to strap it. The "quiet core" restrictors are (or were) $25 per from Muzzy -- nice sound without irritating the neighbors.

You know, if you end up with those ugly beater Staintunes around, what say that they become targets? I got a .44 Mag (that I've been lusting to find forever) to pick up on Tuesday. It'd ventilate those beaten rat cans nicely.

Good on all. Yep, you typically can remember where you where the first time you experienced a classic hunter quote.

I'm very happy to hear that the muzzy has a restrictor available! I didn't see that on my quick search. I considered doing the 4 into 1, but just not cool enough to pull that off.

 

[RenoJohn]

Johnny, just wait until myself and skibum head to Tigard (Portland). Exskibum is Attorney Oscar Acosta without the baggage, but just as crazy. It is going to be a fear and loathing road trip and we gunna have some fun. For those not familiar with Oscar, I suggest a internet search, ...and my favorite quote about the guy came from the fear and loathing king himself:

Let me know when, I will be the guy in the cell with you saying, "Damn that was fun" :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :yahoo:

Oh this sounds like fun... This would be a fun trip. I wonder how many guys we can get to go plus all the guys up there already from the forum.

Keep us all in the loop.

Funny, yep camaraderie comes about from strange things. Some nice rural roads up there as well, no doubt we'll make it some good fun......

 

[08FJR4ME]

Sorry to see ya get screwed over on these RJ.

Just some thoughts while reading these post. Would it be possible to wrap them in carbon fiber to hide the mess? Just a thought and maybe some of the folks who do carbon fiber work can post up.

Dave

 

[redtail]

Just some thoughts while reading these post. Would it be possible to wrap them in carbon fiber to hide the mess? Just a thought and maybe some of the folks who do carbon fiber work can post up.

What... a non violent solution! And a good maybe at that!

Even if it does work, a ride to Portland isn't out of the question. I've met plenty who can justify stealing in the name of "business", but don't are bikes fall into the "sacred" category?

 

[madmike2]

[SIZE=12pt]Gentlemen.....[/SIZE]

May I make a suggestion that our rhetoric in support of RenoJohn (and against the offender) be toned down a bit.

1.) He's innocent until proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

2.) There's no need to "fan the flames" of vitriol against the perpetrator.

3.) Since he is a resident of Oregon, John a resident of Nevada and the rest of us residents of various other states, should anything accidentally befall the "innocent" perpetrator of possible fraud, it's possible that some official could start looking for any suspect.

Erm...uh...some comments here could be construed as a threat against his person AND since it would be across state lines for most of those whose posts I've read.......

That being said, I would like to see him penalized and possibly prosecuted for his fraudulent actions on ebay (also across state lines). That action will first be taken (as it has been) by John and the various Attorneys General, plus other legal wranglings that have been suggested above.

I sincerely doubt the seller is quaking in his boots, but he could be making copies of everything typed on this forum which "could" make the forum itself liable. Especially if something violent were to happen to his physical well being.

I not saying it WOULD.....but I don't know that I'd want to put the forum "at risk".

Yep...I know "free speech" is an argument that will be proffered...BUT.....since free speech doesn't give one license to yell, "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.....