Venting About Group Buys

I thought these group buys...and I've been in on several...were supposed to represent the best price we could get on whatever it is we're buying. I've seen better pricing on the LeoVince stuff elsewhere...not sure about the Muzzy stuff.

black mamba said:

I thought these group buys...and I've been in on several...were supposed to represent the best price we could get on whatever it is we're buying. I've seen better pricing on the LeoVince stuff elsewhere...not sure about the Muzzy stuff.

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The last guy who made a post like this ... disappeared

black mamba said:

I thought these group buys...and I've been in on several...were supposed to represent the best price we could get on whatever it is we're buying. I've seen better pricing on the LeoVince stuff elsewhere...not sure about the Muzzy stuff.

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Where? Be specific what you've seen, what price and model, web page address, phone number? It's all vapor until you do some work...and then the question comes up on quality of the vendor.

RoadGlide said:

I guess mine will be "removed" now.

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We don't do that here. We find it more effective to dogpile people that start ****.

RoadGlide said:

I think it's great that someone takes the lead and gets great deals for us.....but if it's not the best deal around don't get pissed and remove their post so no one can see it.

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Not right. If somebody claims it's not the best deal, they have a responsibility to post up with specifics of how and where it's better. Otherwise, if somebody can't say something nice on these Group Buys....then they should probably listen to what Mom said and not say anything at all. :angry:

Wow. Way to go Iggy. You were faaaaar nicer than I would have been.

After all, it still is dogpile Friday, and seems we had some stinky bait............

RoadGlide said:

Thats because someone's ego may have got in the way. Instead of looking at the big picture (best price around) it was more like "look at what "I'M" doing for you guys. Me, Me, Me that's all our society has come to lately.

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It's clueless, moron statements like this that cause Group Buys to just ******* go away. "Big picture", huh? Read below, :******:

black mamba said:

I thought these group buys...and I've been in on several...were supposed to represent the best price we could get on whatever it is we're buying.

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Nope. There is more to it that that. A lot more. Trust me.

Every bit as important as a good price is a good VENDOR, one that delivers exceptional customer service and "steps up" when the **** goes all bad.

Anyone can scour the internet endlessly to find some "blow-out" price by some volume dealer with a glitzy web site. Would you save a few dollars? Sure. Maybe. But when the **** goes wrong - missing end fittings, wrong color, part is incorrect for your model year, etc, etc, etc.... the test comes in for the vendor. How many horror stories do we hear of ****** customer service? Plenty. So we mitigate that by finding a vendor that is worth a rat's ***, and does right by the customer, even if he eats the meager, marginal profit he makes by selling the item at a pretty damn low price to begin with.

Now, if you know of a source you think is worthy of our Group Buy business that has lower prices, you are free to PM the info to me and let me investigate. One forum member already has done this, and I am about to go with their suggestion because their info checked out and the vendor he suggested has agreed to to join the Group Buy effort and sell some of the exhaust systems that our original vendor can't obtain. So the forum members win out with lower prices still, the new vendor gets some business, and the original vendor who went to bat for us to get this Group Buy started, doesn't lose out any business either.

It's all a balancing act. And a lot of time/effort conducting behind-the-scenes negotiations that very few of you ever see. Then the databases, GB web sites and sign-up forms are all adjusted, tested and re-released with the new info. More time and effort that you never see.

Some of you mouthpieces that think all of this Group Buy stuff happens by FM ought to go ahead and conduct the next group buy, and report back on how easy and smooth everything goes for you. <_<

I, for one, am very appreciative of the effort that goes into affecting a successful group buy on this forum. I have personally benefited from these efforts before and will, I'm sure, do so in the future. So, I am in no way trying to minimize the work and effort put forth by others who make these things happen. However, when I see credible evidence that a credible vendor can perhaps offer a better price, improved service, or whatever...... relative to a proposed group buy, then I feel a responsibility to point this out to the group.

When shopping for some replacement exhaust stuff, another forum member discovered just such a circumstance. I was alerted to the deal as I was also looking to find the best price around. This information was relayed to all forum members via a posting on the forum. The admin saw fit to remove the forum member's posting.

Subsequently, as Ignacio points out as being required, specifics as to price, vendor reliability, etc. were provided ( no need for me to do it a second time...I knew it had been done ) and we ended up with an improved group buy. Thanks to Warchild for making the effort to follow up on the expanded info provided to him.

Isn't this how an " open " forum is supposed to work? When someone offers up an opinion, additional info, what-have-you that can materially benefit us all, we should be appreciative.

Warchild said:

One forum member already has done this, and I am about to go with their suggestion because their info checked out and the vendor he suggested has agreed to to join the Group Buy effort and sell some of the exhaust systems that our original vendor can't obtain. So the forum members win out with lower prices still, the new vendor gets some business, and the original vendor who went to bat for us to get this Group Buy started, doesn't lose out any business either.

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That's great news! :yahoo:

John Ruskin puts it best in several ways:

"A little thought and a little kindness are often worth more than a great deal of money."

"A thing is worth what it can do for you, not what you choose to pay for it."

"Quality is never an accident. It is always the result of intelligent effort."

Bust most importantly,

"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. "

And gawd dammit! I missed DPF?! Someone call me next time! :angry2:

black mamba said:

I, for one, am very appreciative of the effort that goes into affecting a successful group buy on this forum. I have personally benefited from these efforts before and will, I'm sure, do so in the future. So, I am in no way trying to minimize the work and effort put forth by others who make these things happen. However, when I see credible evidence that a credible vendor can perhaps offer a better price, improved service, or whatever...... relative to a proposed group buy, then I feel a responsibility to point this out to the group.
When shopping for some replacement exhaust stuff, another forum member discovered just such a circumstance. I was alerted to the deal as I was also looking to find the best price around. This information was relayed to all forum members via a posting on the forum. The admin saw fit to remove the forum member's posting.

Subsequently, as Ignacio points out as being required, specifics as to price, vendor reliability, etc. were provided ( no need for me to do it a second time...I knew it had been done ) and we ended up with an improved group buy. Thanks to Warchild for making the effort to follow up on the expanded info provided to him.

Isn't this how an " open " forum is supposed to work? When someone offers up an opinion, additional info, what-have-you that can materially benefit us all, we should be appreciative.

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Exactly my point.

RoadGlide said:

Exactly my point.

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No, your point was to attack.

RoadGlide said:

black mamba said:

I, for one, am very appreciative of the effort that goes into affecting a successful group buy on this forum. I have personally benefited from these efforts before and will, I'm sure, do so in the future. So, I am in no way trying to minimize the work and effort put forth by others who make these things happen. However, when I see credible evidence that a credible vendor can perhaps offer a better price, improved service, or whatever...... relative to a proposed group buy, then I feel a responsibility to point this out to the group.
When shopping for some replacement exhaust stuff, another forum member discovered just such a circumstance. I was alerted to the deal as I was also looking to find the best price around. This information was relayed to all forum members via a posting on the forum. The admin saw fit to remove the forum member's posting.

Subsequently, as Ignacio points out as being required, specifics as to price, vendor reliability, etc. were provided ( no need for me to do it a second time...I knew it had been done ) and we ended up with an improved group buy. Thanks to Warchild for making the effort to follow up on the expanded info provided to him.

Isn't this how an " open " forum is supposed to work? When someone offers up an opinion, additional info, what-have-you that can materially benefit us all, we should be appreciative.

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Exactly my point.

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The question as to whether a post has been removed is news to me and one I will be taking up with other admins. I don't think it's something we should generally do. But, I do want to get the whole story.

But, whether a post got removed or not still doesn't explain the whiny attitudes that were there yesterday. I do appreciate your expressing appreciation of the Group Buy process.

Ignacio

There was a post removed yesterday and, as far as I'm concerned, that's total ********. If a guy can't express an open opinion....damaging to no one...then what the hell is the use of this forum. And if you're referring to me about having a " whiny " attitude....that's ******** too. There's nothing about any of my posts that is " whiny " or negative. I've addressed this whole issue in a positive and professional manner....given credit where due for the efforts expended....and encouraged an on-going expectation for a successful culmination to this group buy....and any others that will transpire. As far as I'm concerned, if any of this crap is directed at me, I am due an apology.

How about everyone just take a step back and breathe a little. It's not going to take a whole lot longer before folks are going to start saying things that they are going to regret. This forum is a pretty good platform for exchanging information on the FJR. A public pissing contest on the Group Buy thread is one sure way to ensure that Group Buys do not happen. I can see both sides of this argument clearly. Another thing that I see is that Warchild did take the time to set up the GB and also set up a web page to handle the ordering process. Whether or not the prices that he got were the "rock bottom lowest" in existence is not the point. What is the point is that he did the work and set this up. In effect, he owns it and has an investment in it (i.e. time). He took the time to develop the relationship(s) with the vendor. I don't blame him for trying to protect that. He knows that the vendor is probably looking at the thread. Remember: the vendor gave the best price he could for our benefit as well as his. He is running a business.

I feel pretty sure that I was one of the people that Warchild vented on prior to this GB being started. I was not real happy with the post he put up and my alpha dog mentality began to twitch. Instead of blasting on the forum, I contacted him by PM with the knowledge that I might piss him off even more. He responded to me in a pleasant manner and I think that he appreciated that I did it in private. As it turned out, this GB did not offer the specific system I was looking for. I went another route and have it coming. Am I pissed off? No. Am I glad that I might have had the opportunity to save some money? I sure am.

All that I am saying is that the man (Warchild) should be given some respect for taking the time to set this up. If you find a better deal let him know by PM and he just might be able to work something out with his connections. Keep attacking and he won't even bother.

black mamba said:

There was a post removed yesterday and, as far as I'm concerned, that's total ********.

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I agree. You didn't get my subtlety. It's going to be a topic for admin discussion. We're not unified if this alleged course of action and that's uncommon. You say there was a deletion, I'm going to talk to somebody first before I buy your claim.

black mamba said:

If a guy can't express an open opinion....damaging to no one...then what the hell is the use of this forum.

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People can express opinions and you'll notice I've not censored a thing. But pissing in somebody's Cheerios that put considerable time and effort into a Group Buy when you've never done a GB yourself is hurtful and whiny ********. Yes, I'm saying you were a whiner. You had mellowed out and had tried to make amends, but I think you're back to whiny status again.

Try reading #6 of the guidelines....or the whole set of guidelines again and hold your breath for an apology.

Also, please don't post again in the GB thread unless you're actually considering doing it. I moved posting to this thread as it really is a different subject and has little to do with the option that many FJR owners will want to consider.

Hmmmm.....several years of observing Group Buys. Several years of observing people who, rather than just shop their way, choose instead to **** on the people and vendors involved in putting these together. Several years of being amazed that those who put these together swear never again, yet after the dust has settled, put yet another one together again. Only to be **** on yet again by those who have all the answers, yet haven't the gumption to assemble all thats necessary to throw one of these together. The more things change, the more they remain the same........ WC is not the most politically correct, nor the mellowest person I know in this club (some may argue this), but one fact is clear-and has been for some time-no one has dedicated more time, more effort, more of his own funds, and more of his private connections to further the joys of ownership and farklization dreams come true. To the point where, a few years ago, earlier members of the FJR owners community (hate that context, but it fits here) got together and bought him another FJR when he questioned the viability of the platform. It was a wise decision, because he's still here, and still doing the job a few don't seem to appreciate. Know this-if Dale says it's a good deal, good stuff, good vendor, whatever, believe him. I've never known him to get anything out of it other than heartburn and the thanks of many, many FJR owners, so if anyone is willing to step up and take over the job, have at it-I doubt he'll miss the headache. But you'd better be awful ******* good, cuz you're stepping into some size 15 Oxtars.

i've never had the opportunity to buy into one of the group buys, never seem to have the extra cash when the chance arises. but i do appreciate the fact that some puts their own time and effort to help out a bunch of other people, and get nothing out of it himself. hell, without warchild, and i'm sure others, we would still be argueing with yamaha about the ticking issue. that right there tells me this guy has some serious connections. either that or he's a major pain in the *** and never gives up. :lol: either way, he helped us all. thanks, dale. keep up the great work.

Well said MotorSWATCop...I believe some simple civility works wonders. No that doesn't mean you need to always be PC, but it does mean treating other with some respect. I may not hold WC in high reverence (yet) as some others on the forum, but even as a newbie I can see he contributes significantly. Black mamba uses a freedom of post argument to justify a very weak "you can get something better somewhere else and at some better price...but gee, I just can't remember where and don't have the gumption to find out and offer something of value". That adds nothing of value and simple shows no common courtesy for those who have put forth some effort (so maybe you should keep your post to yourself). But it also shouldn’t mean when your informed of your low value-add post it immediately becomes fair game to throw every four letter word at you.

I enjoy a forum where banter is acceptable, but personal attacks are not a common and highly discouraged.

Regards,

B

You know, I sometimes wonder what planet some of you guys come from. I have been nothing but supportive of group buys...always complimentary of the contributions made by those that put these things together. I've always been quick to acknowlege Warchild, or anyone else, for his efforts. You can't point to a single post of mine where that is not the case and I certainly have never " pissed in anybody's Cheerios ". Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

My attitude hardens considerably, however, when confronted with the mentality that prevails here sometime. There seems to be no tolerance for differences of opinion....contrary to what is said. If you don't see something the same way a few people see it then you are a "whiner ". What a crock of **** that is. I hardly expect any apology from someone like that.

I'll continue to support those that invest their time and effort for the benefit of others....be it arranging group buys or whatever. Always have, always will.

Hey bem136...

I don't mind you speaking your piece ....you're certainly free to express an opinion in my book. But if you are going to do so, at least do it in a coherent manner while using proper English arranged in proper context. This crowd will eat you alive if you don't get better at that. Welcome to the forum.