2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted
- Thread starter tophog
- Start date
Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
- Status
otubrab
Member
Sorry, I haven't quiet figured out the forum interface controls yet. I think I've inadvertently duplicated Ed Sorbo's post twice now. Sorry.
I was trying to quote Ed Sorbo's post #30.
That post is extremely annoying. My 07 FJR has an intermittent problem (surging, etc), which when it surfaces can make bike genuinely dangerous to ride.
According to the post, we're supposed to radically change riding habits when it occurs.
Ed, you should have ridden my FJR up Pikes Peak keeping the engine speed above 4000rpm (it died below that engine speed) while trying to keep the road speed down at 10 to 15mph. Have you ever tried slipping a clutch for 19 miles?
These bikes are supposed to be touring bikes. Touring!!! Not race replicas.
The post was no help at all.
ELP_JC
Well-known member
Just picked up my '07 yesterday, and rode it over a mountain that sits at 5,200ft, from our normal 4K' (El Paso, TX). Bike had 14 miles on the odo when I got there. Didn't notice anything while climbing it the first time, but on the way back, felt a slight surge while climbing. I was around 4K rpms in 4th gear.
Few thoughts. Are you guys sure this bike doesn't have a barometric sensor? That'd be totally unacceptable, as fueling is totally dependent on O2 sensor output, which would explain the jerkiness as the ECU constantly adjusts fuel metering.
Now, I don't mind the very slight surging if it doesn't get worse, but engine stalling, and refusing to run at higher altlitudes would be absolutely unacceptable.
There's one very easy way to tell if bike has a barometric pressure sensor or not: when increasing altitude, let's say, 3K' or so, engine would die at idle if no barometric sensor, just like a carbureted bike. Hmmm, and that leads me to why we have an idle adjustment screw, when my BMW didn't have any, and idle was always a rock-steady 1K rpm. So does idle drops at higher altitude?
I just hope didn't make a mistake with this bike, as all I use it for is tours and day-rides to the mountains. Hope not. Just can't believe that with more stringent emissions requirements every year, Yamaha would skimp on something like this. Does anybody have a service manual to check all sensors on our bikes? We should start there, no? Take care.
JC
Few thoughts. Are you guys sure this bike doesn't have a barometric sensor? That'd be totally unacceptable, as fueling is totally dependent on O2 sensor output, which would explain the jerkiness as the ECU constantly adjusts fuel metering.
Now, I don't mind the very slight surging if it doesn't get worse, but engine stalling, and refusing to run at higher altlitudes would be absolutely unacceptable.
There's one very easy way to tell if bike has a barometric pressure sensor or not: when increasing altitude, let's say, 3K' or so, engine would die at idle if no barometric sensor, just like a carbureted bike. Hmmm, and that leads me to why we have an idle adjustment screw, when my BMW didn't have any, and idle was always a rock-steady 1K rpm. So does idle drops at higher altitude?
I just hope didn't make a mistake with this bike, as all I use it for is tours and day-rides to the mountains. Hope not. Just can't believe that with more stringent emissions requirements every year, Yamaha would skimp on something like this. Does anybody have a service manual to check all sensors on our bikes? We should start there, no? Take care.
JC
PA1195
Well-known member
It'll take someone lots smarter than me to explain why the Atmospheric pressure sensor was eliminated from the GENII bikes to make things "better"...Jestal brought it up first I believe in an earlier thread 20826 referenced above-"Without the baro sensor it is much more difficult to obtain an accurate estimation of the true baro reading. This correlates with the 06/07 bikes ridden thru a widely changing altitude situation that seem to be the ones having a problem."...both my Service manuals for the GENI and GENII show it's there in GENI and gone disappeared for '06-07 and not referred to anymore in th FI Diagnostics Section...that may be the best future talking point with Yamaha regarding the issue that's causing problems for some that change altitude alot...the question is whether the current ECU system on the '07 as capable as the GENI and maybe even the GENII '06 units of properly managing fuel flow versus density altitude and why the change for '07?
The Diagnostics for testing the current intake pressure sensor on page 8-73 of the GENII manual call for shutting off the bike, bringing up Diagnostic Code 3, noting ambient atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold, starting the engine and of course noting a decrease in intake manifold pressure due to engine vacuum = sensor working ok...the GENI Manual calls for just cranking the engine w/o starting and noting a decrease of from 10-200 mmHg for what that's worth.
This may explain why shutting off the engine and restarting when experiencing rough running when changing altitude momentarily clears up the issue as some have noted...the ECU recalibrates itself to the bike's new correct (not estimated) altitude through a change (an increase (going down) or decrease (going up)) in static atmospheric intake manifold pressure, and changes the estimated fuel flow required for the various load settings at that altitude when you start up again...but how often can that be safely done while scooting and climbing or descending?...pull the clutch, stop the engine, start it up and keep going? or stop every 500' of altitude change for a rest break?...geeze!
I suppose it's possible to calculate Atmospheric pressure from intake pressure by interpreting throttle TPS angle and rpms (load), plugging in air temperature to get a density altitude correction, and then adding a set value from a ECU look-up table to get the estimated atmospheric pressure the bike sees...that may be why there's all that injection lag due to slow computing speed...all this in addition to a changing closed-loop O2 sensor input driving the ECU crazy even further trying to get to a 14.7:1 AF ratio at the sensor...by going from FI closed-loop cruising to open-loop fixed-map at higher throttle settings may also clear the issue, but at the risk of sudden loss of control as many have mentioned...the fuel map may be faulty or the ECU can't keep up with the data input...and what about those that experience problems after changing from a steady cruise for extended periods?...is there incorrect data drift or insufficient ECU reaction time?
Another issue Jestal raised in his reply to thread 20826 noted above was that Yamaha went from an open fuel rail (common pressurized fuel supply the injectors) with a return line in GENI to a closed rail in GENII...could there be fuel vaporization/boiling problems occurring in there due to heat despite the fuel being under 50+# pressure?...just speculation on my part.
Maybe the Execs at Yamaha will have to do w/o our Alaskan Crab or Salmon eggs at their Sushi Bar for awhile to help pay for the fix, as it's not going to be cheap, except for an '08 model change leaving the rest of us behind...maybe they should hire/kidnap whoever at BMW designed and then fixed the K1200GT's FI system to help out...way over my head now, crabby (no pun), and time for a cold Bud now that the bike's paid for.
My dog in this fight from Gary in Fairbanks
The Diagnostics for testing the current intake pressure sensor on page 8-73 of the GENII manual call for shutting off the bike, bringing up Diagnostic Code 3, noting ambient atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold, starting the engine and of course noting a decrease in intake manifold pressure due to engine vacuum = sensor working ok...the GENI Manual calls for just cranking the engine w/o starting and noting a decrease of from 10-200 mmHg for what that's worth.
This may explain why shutting off the engine and restarting when experiencing rough running when changing altitude momentarily clears up the issue as some have noted...the ECU recalibrates itself to the bike's new correct (not estimated) altitude through a change (an increase (going down) or decrease (going up)) in static atmospheric intake manifold pressure, and changes the estimated fuel flow required for the various load settings at that altitude when you start up again...but how often can that be safely done while scooting and climbing or descending?...pull the clutch, stop the engine, start it up and keep going? or stop every 500' of altitude change for a rest break?...geeze!
I suppose it's possible to calculate Atmospheric pressure from intake pressure by interpreting throttle TPS angle and rpms (load), plugging in air temperature to get a density altitude correction, and then adding a set value from a ECU look-up table to get the estimated atmospheric pressure the bike sees...that may be why there's all that injection lag due to slow computing speed...all this in addition to a changing closed-loop O2 sensor input driving the ECU crazy even further trying to get to a 14.7:1 AF ratio at the sensor...by going from FI closed-loop cruising to open-loop fixed-map at higher throttle settings may also clear the issue, but at the risk of sudden loss of control as many have mentioned...the fuel map may be faulty or the ECU can't keep up with the data input...and what about those that experience problems after changing from a steady cruise for extended periods?...is there incorrect data drift or insufficient ECU reaction time?
Another issue Jestal raised in his reply to thread 20826 noted above was that Yamaha went from an open fuel rail (common pressurized fuel supply the injectors) with a return line in GENI to a closed rail in GENII...could there be fuel vaporization/boiling problems occurring in there due to heat despite the fuel being under 50+# pressure?...just speculation on my part.
Maybe the Execs at Yamaha will have to do w/o our Alaskan Crab or Salmon eggs at their Sushi Bar for awhile to help pay for the fix, as it's not going to be cheap, except for an '08 model change leaving the rest of us behind...maybe they should hire/kidnap whoever at BMW designed and then fixed the K1200GT's FI system to help out...way over my head now, crabby (no pun), and time for a cold Bud now that the bike's paid for.
My dog in this fight from Gary in Fairbanks
Last edited by a moderator:
ELP_JC
Well-known member
Hey Tophog, good post buddy. Just let me clarify the problem is not above 1,500', or even 4K'. It's when you change altitude, period. I think PA1195 is right on the money about an ECU deficiency, either by the lack of a baro sensor, computing power, or both. The other side of the equation is we're a small majority compared to total bikes sold (since '06). I don't think anything changed in '07, right? Or did it?
Anyway, I'll find out soon enough going to the mountains in Cloudcroft, NM, where you climb from 4K' to 9K' in only 16 miles. I'm bracing for a disappointment, but hope my bike dodged the bullet.
By the way, my bike has a build date of 1/07; have no ideal if the problem is relevant to that or not. But we'll have to be as specific as possible to pinpoint bikes affected. Will try to make it in 2 weeks, so I know if I can start raising some hell as well.
All I know now is bike hesitates to throttle input when cold, and that's not a good sign. Thought idle was low, but it's dead on around 1,050, as recommended. Before I started getting involved with my bikes, I had to sell several due to disappointments like this, but at that rate, I was going to win the lottery, so had to learn to work on them, and rely on places like this, since manufacturers and dealers, as you guys pointed out, don't give a rat's a$$ about their customers unless we make enough racket to bring undue negative attention. And most of the times, that's the way to go.
You said you did try the +4 CO adjustment, correct? And no change?? If not all bikes to that, I'm also almost certain it can be a bad sensor, or marginal one, which doesn't react fast enough. I'll also watch this thread, but unless bike is unridable in a safe manner, will hold on to it until the end. There's no other bike I want now. Just sold my BMW, and with closest dealer 300 miles away, it's not an option. And buying the first year of the Connie is a no-no too. Hope mine is not afflicted to the degree of yours. Best of luck buddy. AT least my BMW ran flawlessly all the 15K miles I had it. Unfortunatley, with even tightening emissions, lean fueling issues are the order of the day. The new K bikes also had severe FI issues, but as you said, they were quickly resolved. Haven't heard anything on the R bikes, so you should be fine with it. Take care.
JC
Anyway, I'll find out soon enough going to the mountains in Cloudcroft, NM, where you climb from 4K' to 9K' in only 16 miles. I'm bracing for a disappointment, but hope my bike dodged the bullet.
By the way, my bike has a build date of 1/07; have no ideal if the problem is relevant to that or not. But we'll have to be as specific as possible to pinpoint bikes affected. Will try to make it in 2 weeks, so I know if I can start raising some hell as well.
All I know now is bike hesitates to throttle input when cold, and that's not a good sign. Thought idle was low, but it's dead on around 1,050, as recommended. Before I started getting involved with my bikes, I had to sell several due to disappointments like this, but at that rate, I was going to win the lottery, so had to learn to work on them, and rely on places like this, since manufacturers and dealers, as you guys pointed out, don't give a rat's a$$ about their customers unless we make enough racket to bring undue negative attention. And most of the times, that's the way to go.
You said you did try the +4 CO adjustment, correct? And no change?? If not all bikes to that, I'm also almost certain it can be a bad sensor, or marginal one, which doesn't react fast enough. I'll also watch this thread, but unless bike is unridable in a safe manner, will hold on to it until the end. There's no other bike I want now. Just sold my BMW, and with closest dealer 300 miles away, it's not an option. And buying the first year of the Connie is a no-no too. Hope mine is not afflicted to the degree of yours. Best of luck buddy. AT least my BMW ran flawlessly all the 15K miles I had it. Unfortunatley, with even tightening emissions, lean fueling issues are the order of the day. The new K bikes also had severe FI issues, but as you said, they were quickly resolved. Haven't heard anything on the R bikes, so you should be fine with it. Take care.
JC
Hi, This is going to be my second post her and I have been following this topic for a quite some time now.... As I have mentioned on my 1st. post, I work at a Yamaha dealership somewhere in FL. Anyways, I have owned nothing but Kawasaki and currently own a ZX10R, I love Kawasaki, but Yamaha signs my paycheck.... I have ridden almost every model of Yamaha from ATVs cruisers , sport bikes and The FJR.
We don't get very many FJR's in for service , I mean almost none, except recently we got an 05 in for repair that had some ABS problems and an 07 FJR that the famous "High altitude" surging problem. Customer had an 05 FJR and traded it in for an 07 his 05 had 27000 miles on it and when I talked to him he said that he had no problems with his 05 and he bought the 07 . First time he took it up to the mountains and passed 3000 ft. it started surging, like almost not idling etc. He said that he did the same route with his 05 and never had any issues.
Anyways he brought the bike in for us to diagnose and see if we can fix it and This job was assign to me and while he was still at the shop I wanted to talk to him about it since I have been reading about this problem here, I wanted to check and see if I can find something.
First I checked ECU for stored codes, found nothing then I went thru all diagnostic codes just to see if there is any abnormal reading that the ECU is not recognizing, Then I decided to call yamaha but before I did I wanted to test few more sensors so I would have some numbers in hand. By the way night before I started on this bike , Have the service manual in my computer and started to read the service manual kind of like a home work trying to find something, like some of you noticed I noticed that 06 and 07 's don't have the atmospheric pressure sensor, and intake pressure sensor works for both atmospheric and intake pressure. and everything else very much the same basicly you can do a resistance check, voltage input and output checks and stuff.... Next day came to work before I called yamaha , I used my mightyvac, hooked up my volt meter to the intake pressure sensor and by creating pressure difference I was able to move my voltage readings as the specs in the service manual. I checked throttle body synch and adjusted it (got it perfect). and Called yamaha and they wanted us to do an ECA testing but my dealership does not have one or they said that they would come down to do it but it would take soma time or the last choice was that advise customer to take the bike to a different yamaha dealership who has an EGA machine, they were trying to help in anyway they can but no luck because the tests they wanted me to perform was no different than the ones I had already performed. In the mean time I did change the CO settings anyways because I know the bike is going to run much better anyways....
To make the long story short we called the customer, told him what we did and also what Yamahas suggestion was. Customer was very nice about it but for some reason I didn"t feel right about it.
I has been bugging me for almost 2 weeks not and I hate not being able to at least find a reason for this problem. I wrote down everything, what changes what does not, what monitors what and all that kind of like a chart and there is one thing everybody is missing and that is "FUEL" I went back to my school books to refresh my memory and also remembered
"The higher the altitude above sea level, the lower the octane requirement.",higher altitude areas, a typical combustion engine will naturally take in less air for each cycle due to the reduced density of the air. This translates to reduced dynamic compression in the cylinder. I think It is safe to fill up the fuel tank with lower octane. To compensate for the volumetric efficiency loss at higher elevations lower octane fuel might be you answer. Due to thinner air causing high compression engine becoming lower compression fuel requirement should change too, anyone agree?????
Now most of you will probably ask, why this is only happening with the 07's, I don't know, maybe yamaha updated or changed something that the other models didn't have.
If one of you who is at the sea level and close by the mountains might wanna try this to see if it works? and I think it will..... the chat below will give you and idea about what octane at what elevation..... (I didn't make it but simple google search will give you ton of info on this subject , just in case if someone wants to double check what I just wrote...
We don't get very many FJR's in for service , I mean almost none, except recently we got an 05 in for repair that had some ABS problems and an 07 FJR that the famous "High altitude" surging problem. Customer had an 05 FJR and traded it in for an 07 his 05 had 27000 miles on it and when I talked to him he said that he had no problems with his 05 and he bought the 07 . First time he took it up to the mountains and passed 3000 ft. it started surging, like almost not idling etc. He said that he did the same route with his 05 and never had any issues.
Anyways he brought the bike in for us to diagnose and see if we can fix it and This job was assign to me and while he was still at the shop I wanted to talk to him about it since I have been reading about this problem here, I wanted to check and see if I can find something.
First I checked ECU for stored codes, found nothing then I went thru all diagnostic codes just to see if there is any abnormal reading that the ECU is not recognizing, Then I decided to call yamaha but before I did I wanted to test few more sensors so I would have some numbers in hand. By the way night before I started on this bike , Have the service manual in my computer and started to read the service manual kind of like a home work trying to find something, like some of you noticed I noticed that 06 and 07 's don't have the atmospheric pressure sensor, and intake pressure sensor works for both atmospheric and intake pressure. and everything else very much the same basicly you can do a resistance check, voltage input and output checks and stuff.... Next day came to work before I called yamaha , I used my mightyvac, hooked up my volt meter to the intake pressure sensor and by creating pressure difference I was able to move my voltage readings as the specs in the service manual. I checked throttle body synch and adjusted it (got it perfect). and Called yamaha and they wanted us to do an ECA testing but my dealership does not have one or they said that they would come down to do it but it would take soma time or the last choice was that advise customer to take the bike to a different yamaha dealership who has an EGA machine, they were trying to help in anyway they can but no luck because the tests they wanted me to perform was no different than the ones I had already performed. In the mean time I did change the CO settings anyways because I know the bike is going to run much better anyways....
To make the long story short we called the customer, told him what we did and also what Yamahas suggestion was. Customer was very nice about it but for some reason I didn"t feel right about it.
I has been bugging me for almost 2 weeks not and I hate not being able to at least find a reason for this problem. I wrote down everything, what changes what does not, what monitors what and all that kind of like a chart and there is one thing everybody is missing and that is "FUEL" I went back to my school books to refresh my memory and also remembered
"The higher the altitude above sea level, the lower the octane requirement.",higher altitude areas, a typical combustion engine will naturally take in less air for each cycle due to the reduced density of the air. This translates to reduced dynamic compression in the cylinder. I think It is safe to fill up the fuel tank with lower octane. To compensate for the volumetric efficiency loss at higher elevations lower octane fuel might be you answer. Due to thinner air causing high compression engine becoming lower compression fuel requirement should change too, anyone agree?????
Now most of you will probably ask, why this is only happening with the 07's, I don't know, maybe yamaha updated or changed something that the other models didn't have.
If one of you who is at the sea level and close by the mountains might wanna try this to see if it works? and I think it will..... the chat below will give you and idea about what octane at what elevation..... (I didn't make it but simple google search will give you ton of info on this subject , just in case if someone wants to double check what I just wrote...
dgerharter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2007
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 0
Well, since I usually fill up with 87 (and did so on June 9, the day of my bad surging), I don't think that's the answer. I can appreciate that a higher octane isn't required, and it certainly shouldn't cause the complete lack of combustion I experienced. I know what I experienced, and it was a lack of fuel being delivered to the intake. After a brief (if you call 3-4 seconds brief) pause with ever increasing throttle being applied, there would be a sudden delivery of fuel, followed by the compulsory " Oh crap, I hope my wife didn't fall off the back", then a quick closing of the throttle to keep me from riding up the arse of the person in front of me.
I have now taken my bike to a second dealer, as the first (a 5-Star) told me he was too busy to be able to look at my bike this month. Let's hope this second dealer can find the time to check things out. I will be mentioning the vacuum level and TBS issues that others have brought up, and I will also notify Yamaha about the change in dealerships.
I know this probably isn't the right place to post a ride, but I think I will take the bike back up 245 (between Porterville and Sequoia National Park) on June 30 - that's where I experienced the worst of it. Any other Gen II's that want to go along, PM me and we'll set it up. I live in Burbank - we can make it up & back in a full day, but it will be a long one - about 400 miles round trip.
David
v65
ouch
I think looking at the elimination of the barometric sensor as the culprit is a red herring. If this was the problem then all Gen II bikes would suffer from this problem, mine does not. To repeat my earlier post, I have ridden through the Adirondacks, Allegany, and Green Mountains with no hint of problems, and this has been in all kinds of weather and conditions, from 90 degree boiling heat this year to a weeks worth of rain at Americade last year.
Last year in the rain, as an example, we climbed Whiteface Mountain two up, no problems. Whiteface may not compare with some of the peaks in the Rockies, but it should have been more than enough to induce surging. There are plenty of Gen II owners that live in mountainous regions, too many for this to be a something that would effect all Gen II bikes. One guys opinion for what it is worth.
Last year in the rain, as an example, we climbed Whiteface Mountain two up, no problems. Whiteface may not compare with some of the peaks in the Rockies, but it should have been more than enough to induce surging. There are plenty of Gen II owners that live in mountainous regions, too many for this to be a something that would effect all Gen II bikes. One guys opinion for what it is worth.
otubrab
Member
RE: Octane ratings:
This isn't THE issue. I live at essentially sea level (Monroe, WA). Here, unleaded regular, the lowest octane I can get, is 87. As you go up in altitude throughout the west, the major oil companies automatically reduce the octane ratings for each grade of fuel. Typically, in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, etc., the same oil company that rates regular 87 where I live rates their regular at 86, 85.5, or 85. The problem still occurs.
I've used all octane ratings available to me here in Monroe while climbing Steven's Pass (altitude 4200ft); the problem occurs with each.
{I normally burn 87 octane because 1) it's what the manufacturer recommends; 2) it produces more power than higher octane grades (contrary to what a lot of people believe--and they'll ignorantly insist, in spite of all information produced to prove that); and 3) lower octanes burn cleaner (after all, when it comes to auto fuels, higher octane fuels are really just lower octane fuels with burn retarders and other chemicals added, many of which leave burn residues. }
RE: Yamaha's attitude.
From what I understand from these postings, I have a really good dealer, Adventure Motorsports, here in Monroe, WA.
The service manager, Chris, has been extremely helpful. I've discussed the problem several times with him; he has contacted Yamaha and arranged an evaluation of my bike. From what he tells me, Yamaha believes there is "probably a problem with some bikes" and they're interested in investigating. Again, from what he tells me, an issue for them is that this seems to occur on so few bikes, that they want one which it does occur on to test and evaluate. I've offered mine. I forget whom Chris told me wanted to ride the bike, but it was a "regional service rep." or some such Yamaha representative. If I remember his words correctly, the Yamaha rep was "excited" to have my bike to test because it is definitely a problem bike. This week, I'm going to leave the bike with them, and both Chris, who is a top notch mechanic as well as a top notch service manager, and the Yamaha rep are going to ride it up to the summit of Stevens Pass and test and evaluate. Chris told me Yamaha has authorized him for a 2 hour ride (I think that means they're picking up the cost), and may help the investigation in other ways.
I may be naive, but I expect the real story from Chris after their evaluation. Since there seem to be a lot--like a super majority-- of 07 FJRs out there that do NOT experience this problem, I'm still hopeful that a tweak can be found that might convert my bike into one of those. I realize that they might not find the problem, or a fix for it, and that I might be stuck with what should be the best sports turning bike out there, except for this one, serious, problem (on some of bikes).
So, I'm lucky to have a good dealership, mechanic, service manager. (I hope that's enough to get to the bottom of this.)
I'm unlucky in that I got one of the offending bikes, and I'm not sure how far Yamaha will go in completely rectifying the situation. At this point, I consider this a Yamaha issue, and not a dealership issue.
I'll keep you posted.
This isn't THE issue. I live at essentially sea level (Monroe, WA). Here, unleaded regular, the lowest octane I can get, is 87. As you go up in altitude throughout the west, the major oil companies automatically reduce the octane ratings for each grade of fuel. Typically, in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, etc., the same oil company that rates regular 87 where I live rates their regular at 86, 85.5, or 85. The problem still occurs.
I've used all octane ratings available to me here in Monroe while climbing Steven's Pass (altitude 4200ft); the problem occurs with each.
{I normally burn 87 octane because 1) it's what the manufacturer recommends; 2) it produces more power than higher octane grades (contrary to what a lot of people believe--and they'll ignorantly insist, in spite of all information produced to prove that); and 3) lower octanes burn cleaner (after all, when it comes to auto fuels, higher octane fuels are really just lower octane fuels with burn retarders and other chemicals added, many of which leave burn residues. }
RE: Yamaha's attitude.
From what I understand from these postings, I have a really good dealer, Adventure Motorsports, here in Monroe, WA.
The service manager, Chris, has been extremely helpful. I've discussed the problem several times with him; he has contacted Yamaha and arranged an evaluation of my bike. From what he tells me, Yamaha believes there is "probably a problem with some bikes" and they're interested in investigating. Again, from what he tells me, an issue for them is that this seems to occur on so few bikes, that they want one which it does occur on to test and evaluate. I've offered mine. I forget whom Chris told me wanted to ride the bike, but it was a "regional service rep." or some such Yamaha representative. If I remember his words correctly, the Yamaha rep was "excited" to have my bike to test because it is definitely a problem bike. This week, I'm going to leave the bike with them, and both Chris, who is a top notch mechanic as well as a top notch service manager, and the Yamaha rep are going to ride it up to the summit of Stevens Pass and test and evaluate. Chris told me Yamaha has authorized him for a 2 hour ride (I think that means they're picking up the cost), and may help the investigation in other ways.
I may be naive, but I expect the real story from Chris after their evaluation. Since there seem to be a lot--like a super majority-- of 07 FJRs out there that do NOT experience this problem, I'm still hopeful that a tweak can be found that might convert my bike into one of those. I realize that they might not find the problem, or a fix for it, and that I might be stuck with what should be the best sports turning bike out there, except for this one, serious, problem (on some of bikes).
So, I'm lucky to have a good dealership, mechanic, service manager. (I hope that's enough to get to the bottom of this.)
I'm unlucky in that I got one of the offending bikes, and I'm not sure how far Yamaha will go in completely rectifying the situation. At this point, I consider this a Yamaha issue, and not a dealership issue.
I'll keep you posted.
PA1195
Well-known member
otubrab...you might have your Dealer check this for any effect as posted here in # 27 and #28, as it relates to throttle body synch and Cyl. # 3 initial calibration:
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=19977
Gary in Fairbanks
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=19977
Gary in Fairbanks
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the problem is much more widespread then Yamaha wants us to believe. I think they have probably read this thread by now and are thinking "Oh shit!". Looking forward to seeing the results of the test ride by the Yamaha Rep.
TruWrecks
Still chewing thru the Restraints
I'm going to try to arrange for the same tech in Monroe, WA to look at mine. That will be two 07's at the same dealer that can easily reproduce the problem. That should give them a bunch of useful data.
I went thru the thread and tallied the posts so far. Obviously not scientific or anything ...but may help new readers from having to read the whole thread. I may have typo's, etc. but you get the general picture. 10 bikes in CA.
Owners who reported Surging problem
Reported: 29
Year State Login
2007 ??? Whichsideup
2006 AZ azsporttour
2006 CA co425
2006 CA DMC FJRRider
2006 CA Highlander
2007 CA CALSI
2007 CA dgerharter
2007 CA Gary D
2007 CA rgmax
2007 CA Silent
2007 CA Spunkmyer
2007 CA Superbee
2007 CO Gator1
2007 CO Medium Al
2007 CO seabiscuit
2007 CO Telluride
2006 FL one more bike
2007 NC JeffAshe
2007 NC millsaps
2007 NC sfla02si
2007 OR Farkles
2007 OR tophog
2007 TN fjr07
2007 TN TNT
2007 TX ELP JC
2006 UT Fjrvfr
2007 WA otubrab
2007 WA TruWrecks
2007 AGirl
Owners who have reported no problem
Reported: 9
Year State Login
2006 CA Gary
2006 CO BobG
2006 CT rivgar
ID headude
2007 Iowa okmac
2007 NC bent Aero
2006 NY v65
2007 phoneman91 CA
2006 TX bmwhd
Owners who reported Surging problem
Reported: 29
Year State Login
2007 ??? Whichsideup
2006 AZ azsporttour
2006 CA co425
2006 CA DMC FJRRider
2006 CA Highlander
2007 CA CALSI
2007 CA dgerharter
2007 CA Gary D
2007 CA rgmax
2007 CA Silent
2007 CA Spunkmyer
2007 CA Superbee
2007 CO Gator1
2007 CO Medium Al
2007 CO seabiscuit
2007 CO Telluride
2006 FL one more bike
2007 NC JeffAshe
2007 NC millsaps
2007 NC sfla02si
2007 OR Farkles
2007 OR tophog
2007 TN fjr07
2007 TN TNT
2007 TX ELP JC
2006 UT Fjrvfr
2007 WA otubrab
2007 WA TruWrecks
2007 AGirl
Owners who have reported no problem
Reported: 9
Year State Login
2006 CA Gary
2006 CO BobG
2006 CT rivgar
ID headude
2007 Iowa okmac
2007 NC bent Aero
2006 NY v65
2007 phoneman91 CA
2006 TX bmwhd
Last edited by a moderator:
As mentioned in my intro I'm a UK based rider. I've just returned from an overseas trip to mainland Europe and I also for the first time experianced some of the issues mentioned in this thread. 2007 model bike owned for two months after I traded up from an 03 model.
Both my dealer and Yamaha UK have been notified (Yamaha UK also notified Yamaha Europe) and I will be issuing letters to both parties by the end of this week stating what the problem is and when it occured, I've also included a link to this forum so they can read it if they wish.
I personally like others believe this to be a major safety issue. Now I may be lucky living in the UK as we don't have too many roads that change altitude to the extent that they do in mainland Europe. The bike is sold as a continent tourer so that is what I expect it to do and the EFI should be able to adjust smoothly to any changes of conditions, so that when I go on holiday I can relax and enjoy it and not worry about am I going to get power or not as I ride.
I will of course keep this forum updated should I find any information.
Both my dealer and Yamaha UK have been notified (Yamaha UK also notified Yamaha Europe) and I will be issuing letters to both parties by the end of this week stating what the problem is and when it occured, I've also included a link to this forum so they can read it if they wish.
I personally like others believe this to be a major safety issue. Now I may be lucky living in the UK as we don't have too many roads that change altitude to the extent that they do in mainland Europe. The bike is sold as a continent tourer so that is what I expect it to do and the EFI should be able to adjust smoothly to any changes of conditions, so that when I go on holiday I can relax and enjoy it and not worry about am I going to get power or not as I ride.
I will of course keep this forum updated should I find any information.
AGirl
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
- Messages
- 111
- Reaction score
- 1
I haven't read this entire thread but, Tophog, after 17k miles I'm not far behind you reaching the auction block point with my 07A. :sadsmiley: Thank goodness I'm leaving for Alaska (details: HERE) in the morning on a different bike. I'll keep my eyes open for a cussing Cerulean Silver owner when I pass through OR. If something develops with this issue over the next 2 months while I'm gone would someone be so kind to send me a direct email (AGirl at Seize The Journey dot com)... a "cure" to this issue would change my travel plans. Thanks in advance. Oh, and my offer to meet a Yam rep anytime/anywhere (now after Sept 1) still stands.
AGirl
p.s. You can add me to the list. As for the "State".. um, ah, well: AL, MS, FL, LA, TX, NM, AZ, CA, OK, AR, TN, GA, KY, OH, PA, NY, MA, VT, NH, ME, CT, NJ, DE, MD, VC, NC, and Canada. (Details: HERE)
Last edited by a moderator:
otubrab
Member
TruWrecks
Still chewing thru the Restraints
Well this morning I turned my 07 A over to Yamaha @ Adventure Motorsports of Monroe, WA. I described in very good detail how they can easily recreate the surging as they ride it up to Steven Pass. There was a fatal accident on HWY 2 early this AM that has the whole road shut down, so the test ride will be done tomorrow morning. Chriss (Service tech) has already contacted Yamaha to let them know they have a bike to test.
I'm really bummed that I don't have a bike to ride with the great weather we have today in the PNW. I'm more than willing to forfeit the bike for a few days if that means getting Yamaha to identify the problem and get it corrected. The "kick in the butt" surge has almost caused me to go wide into on-coming traffic more than once. I have run onto the shoulder at least once. I'm just glad it was nothing more than close calls.
I'll report back when I here back from Yamaha.
I'm really bummed that I don't have a bike to ride with the great weather we have today in the PNW. I'm more than willing to forfeit the bike for a few days if that means getting Yamaha to identify the problem and get it corrected. The "kick in the butt" surge has almost caused me to go wide into on-coming traffic more than once. I have run onto the shoulder at least once. I'm just glad it was nothing more than close calls.
I'll report back when I here back from Yamaha.
dgerharter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2007
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 0
Well, I got a call back from the dealer #2 today (dealer #1, a 5-Star dealer, was too busy to look at it). He informed me that there were no fault codes stored in the ECU, and that all sensors appeared to be working fine. He also said that they checked the TBS and that the throttle bodies were way out of sync. He also said they adjusted the idle, as it was "little low".
The thing is, I just paid to have dealer #1 do my 600 mile break in service 200 miles before my trip on June 8-10, when I experienced my "episode". Oh, well, they're doing it under warranty.
I thanked him and will pick the bike up tomorrow afternoon. I won't be able to get a really good test in until June 30, but I may try to take off early one afternoon this week and head up Angeles Crest and see what happens.
David
The thing is, I just paid to have dealer #1 do my 600 mile break in service 200 miles before my trip on June 8-10, when I experienced my "episode". Oh, well, they're doing it under warranty.
I thanked him and will pick the bike up tomorrow afternoon. I won't be able to get a really good test in until June 30, but I may try to take off early one afternoon this week and head up Angeles Crest and see what happens.
David
- Status
Similar threads
