2014 Stumble on accel.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

They'll get it straightened out Bill.

As their replacing about the entire fuel, intake system.

Their engineers will take your old one and examine it and find the issue. You can bet they'll probably be something from Yamaha (on paper for the dealers) on this issue and EXACTLY what the fix is... Unfortunately, your the first, but probably won't be the last..

Good luck..

 

[ionbeam]

...As their replacing about the entire fuel, intake system.
Their engineers will take your old one and examine it and find the issue. You can bet they'll probably be something from Yamaha (on paper for the dealers) on this issue and EXACTLY what the fix is... Unfortunately, your the first, but probably won't be the last..

Good luck..

The OP said:

Update- YDT data provided to mothership resulted in throttle body replacement being ordered.

If Yamaha looked at the data and prescribed changing the throttle bodies they have know what is wrong from looking at the data. This shouldn't be rocket science to a knowledgeable technician. The FSM is enthusiastic about replacing the throttle bodies, they list this a the cure for a number of failures, some are seemingly small, simple issues. Talk about a $1,000 fix to a $10 problem in some cases.

Even though the Yamaha Diagnostic Tool is expensive I'm still probably going to pick it up over the winter. It seems kinda silly to use the tool after reading what the FSM says about the throttle bodies. Why bother to diagnose the TB down the the simple failed part or identify the misadjustment it the fix is commonly going to be "Replace the throttle bodies".

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

If Yamaha looked at the data and prescribed changing the throttle bodies they have know what is wrong from looking at the data. This shouldn't be rocket science to a knowledgeable technician. The FSM is enthusiastic about replacing the throttle bodies, they list this a the cure for a number of failures, some are seemingly small, simple issues. Talk about a $1,000 fix to a $10 problem in some cases.

Or Yamaha has no clue and is just throwing a Hail Mary.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Remember- Monday's conversation with Yamaha was that they were no longer convinced throttle body assembly replacement would fix the bike and were sending a tech to the bike for diagnosis. Maybe a Hail Mary. Maybe a stopgap.

 

[ionbeam]

Bill's dealer can't sort this out, but I believe many or most Yamaha trained technicians could do true root cause troubleshooting. As noted, there are a surprisingly large number of faults that the FSM simply says replace the entire throttle body. It could have something to do with maintaining EPA certification, it could be that replacing a $10 item on the rack would cost more than a new TB rack due to the time involved to perform the repair.

I have worked for some businesses which make very large, extreme technology products and troubleshooting is tied to equipment utilization. When something breaks and troubleshooting starts the customer stands behind you screaming that it is costing them $1,000 a minute to have the apparatus down. In cases like this you swap whole assemblies to get it back up ASAP. When possible I prefer to do 'to the component' troubleshooting and always attempt to replace only the bad component(s) in one repair and have the equipment running again. A technician that has a long list of components to replace without knowing if they are for sure bad is not a good technician (shotgun troubleshooting).

When something like a FJR is down there is time to do more root cause troubleshooting and it shouldn't take days. The Gen III has very good diagnostics to deal with a much more complex machine. Yamaha has included in the FJR the means to collect data that should allow 'to the component troubleshooting'. Yamaha has made equipment available to the dealer which can select data for logging and tap into this data for evaluation. Yamaha has to have made training available to show technical people how to use these tools. I don't think Bill's dealer bought into either the equipment or training the way they should have starting in '13.

So far Bill's FJR is unique on the Forum and probably rare for all FJRs, I doubt that it will become a hardware TSB but it is likely to be included with information commonly shared with higher level Yamaha technical services. It will be interesting to see the final outcome -- this afternoon or tomorrow but October....

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

Big mass market companies don't work that way, in my experience. They want to 1) resolve the issue at minimum cost; 2) avoid liability; and 3) make the client happy, in that order. 1 and 2 take precedent over 3, which is why they won't expedite a new TB for Bill. For them, it is an accounting exercise. Ford Pinto gas tank or Corvair anti-roll bar being classic examples.

I suspect that if they replace the entire assembly, they back-charge the cost of the warranty repair to Mikuni as a supplier, which also accomplishes 1. Easy and cheap for Yamaha. Actual troubleshooting to figure out which component failed in the TB assembly costs Yamaha money. If Mikuni wants to examine the part, they can do so after the fact.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

West coast CS rep called as soon as their office opened. Advised their tech rep would be at the shop this coming Tuesday. In case you haven't noticed, there is a trend of improved Yamaha customer service. Just as I intentionally, after great effort to move things forward, publicly highlighted the rather prolonged lack of response, I wanted the change for the better to be highlighted, as it should be. Bike has been down far too long, but getting timely updates and actually getting a call rather than dialing in for info is a marked change. I'm interested to see what the results are from the diagnostic visit. At this point, I'm just anxious to get back to riding. Thanks to all.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I hope you didn't throw them off the scent by telling them about your nipples. Or maybe that's why they're calling you now.

Hashtag Nipples.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Yamaha roving tech inspected bike yesterday. Prescribed the fix already discussed, throttle bodies and everything that goes with them. Timeline for receipt of these parts is now reported as mid September. Two of the three weeks between now and then, I'm on the road anyway. I suppose that's a good thing. Before he left, roving tech told them to replace the plugs and run it, just in case that fixed it. They're doing that today. As noted long ago, I replaced the plugs before I ever turned the bike in for service in April, to eliminate them as a possibility. Ride safe gentlemen.

 

[Fred W]

I'll bet if they replaced the engine it would fix it for sure.

That is sad, that the "roving tech" is still applying shotgun solutions to a specific problem like that. Doesn't give a great deal of confidence in Yamaha's support system. Thank god they make a fairly reliable machine.

 

[ionbeam]

^^^^ Take a look in the FSM, it calls out to replace the entire throttle body rack for a quite a number of symptoms.

It looks like Yamaha doesn't have a lot of individual replacement TB parts available even if you can positively identify the fault to one component. It's odd that Yamaha's Diagnostic Tool is made to sniff out a bad component but requires an entire system to be replaced to fix the one problem.

 

[RossKean]

I'll bet if they replaced the engine it would fix it for sure.

Nah - If they replaced the entire engine, the problem would turn out to be the ECU!! Or maybe a plugged air filter!

This has to be frustrating. Not a bike issue - even great shit sometimes breaks. Yamaha's response to these very real problems is a major disappointment.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

While any patience on my part is feigned, perhaps they have rather limited experience dealing with these sorts of problems on in-warranty bikes. One hopes. Who knows.

 

[mcatrophy]

While any patience on my part is feigned, perhaps they have rather limited experience dealing with these sorts of problems on in-warranty bikes. One hopes. Who knows.

If it was common, they'd keep spares available.
My experience of Yamaha warranty work was "they could not have done better". In my case, all parts were wear items, so stocking wasn't a problem, you are not so fortunate.

 

[Fred W]

^^^^ Take a look in the FSM, it calls out to replace the entire throttle body rack for a quite a number of symptoms.
It looks like Yamaha doesn't have a lot of individual replacement TB parts available even if you can positively identify the fault to one component. It's odd that Yamaha's Diagnostic Tool is made to sniff out a bad component but requires an entire system to be replaced to fix the one problem.

Yes and no. Both throttle position sensors are FRUs (Field Replaceable Units) with elevated prices over the past ones I might add, but the throttle solenoid is not. The Parts list shows 28 unique identifiers, but many of those are vacuum tubes and hose clamps.

 

[Viper Pilot]

and maybe there really isn't a problem after all!!! LOL

Just kidding!

 

[K_Flyer]

Very disconcerting for me having just bought two 2015 FJR1300's. The crappy initial customer support and the impression that no one at Yamaha has the faintest clue of what the problem or solution might be is exactly why we dumped the BMW's and bought the FJR's. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

 

[wheatonFJR]

Very disconcerting for me having just bought two 2015 FJR1300's. The crappy initial customer support and the impression that no one at Yamaha has the faintest clue of what the problem or solution might be is exactly why we dumped the BMW's and bought the FJR's. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

Except for the "nipples" problem on Bill Lumberg's bike, I haven't seen much of an issue.

I'm on my 3rd FJR and 13 years of owning them. If you landed in the fire, you didn't jump far enough away from the BMW final drive.

 

[Fred W]

The "problem" is not the technical problem with Bill's bike. The "problem" here is the apparent lack of ability, or much concern for that matter, to diagnose and repair Bill's bike by the very company that made it and sold it to him, even by their higher level roving support technician.

As you know, I am in an equipment service oriented business also. If we gave the kind of answers to our customers that Bill is receiving from Yamaha US, our customers would go elsewhere to buy their equipment and we'd be out of business in a hurry. If we had a unique problem like this, especially one that could negatively influence perceptions of our product's quality (these things do happen) we would be overnight shipping the required parts to the job site, and probably have a regional support person (that's me) on site until the problem was resolved.

One customer with a bad experience cancels out 100 customers (like you and me) with satisfactory experiences. That's just life.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

For a problem of this duration, a loaner/rental/demo should have been offered long ago. It would have significantly impacted my impression of the company and their responsiveness. Turned a report of poor treatment into an example of a company standing up when an unusual technical curveball put them in a bad position. I did everything I could (and I'm pretty creative) to facilitate a resolution prior to sharing my situation. And the world still turns. I'm more worried about RFH, La, and making sure the raw spots on RFH juniors hands heal up at this point.