"Abrupt off/on Throttle Reaction" Rider magazine
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Tropical FJR
Well-known member
tripletango
Well-known member
This is an 06 issue. My 05 was fine. In fact it is such an issue with my 06, I wish I had not sold my 05 even though it had a non existant heat issue that still fried one's sweet breads.
Hell it is so bad I would even ride my Burgman 650 rather than the 06.
Enough already enough. Just kidding
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Fastmax
Active member
Having never dissasembled the FJR heated grips I do not know if the heating mechanism is in the grip itself or in the throttle sleeve. Which brings me to ask, will that replacement sleeve from G2ergo work on an AE model?
Thanks
Roy
Thanks
Roy
To paraphrase: There are two types of '06 FJR riders. Those for whom the throttle abruptness is an issue and those for whom it will be an issue.
How difficult to change the throttle cam?
RoadRunner
Member
Hi FastMax,
I have the same question. This morning I pulled the throttle assembly apart and sure enough, the heat assembly is in the grip itself, So I see no reason why the G2 fix won't work. I've ordered mine via the website and hope their backorders will be filled soon. I hope this helps you out. But, my observations are hardly the final word as to whether or not the fix is in for AE owners. There could easily be some simple parameter I am overlooking.
Remove the two Allen head screws on the throttle assy and it falls apart in your hand. Very simple.
ionbeam
2 FUN
When you put on the G2 sleeve you may notice some reduced heat at the grip due to heat-sinking by the metal sleeve which doesn't happen with the factory plastic sleeve. The grip on the vestigial clutch side has what looks like rifling on the inside to keep most the grip off the metal bar, minimizing the heat-sink effect.
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>>Remove the two Allen head screws on the throttle assy and it falls apart in your hand. Very simple.<<
Thanks, somehow I imagined a rod through the center that would prevent removal and replacement.
Thanks, somehow I imagined a rod through the center that would prevent removal and replacement.
Am I to understand that you can remove the factory grip intact and then put it back on the new sleeve ?
If that is so would you please share your secret on how to do it.
thanks
Mac
sprint_st
Well-known member
I'm an analytical kinda guy and have been riding and working on bikes for forty years. It seems to me that there is more than one issue here and also multiple solutions. When it comes to the throttle either carbs or FI, no two bikes are exactly alike and I mean no two individual bikes not models. FI is even worse because you have multiple sensors that are mass produced and so many variable from air temperature to grades of gas that a program has to compensate for. The primary issue seems to be getting the correct AF mix from the injectors and throttle bodies as the throttle goes from full closed to somewhere in the low rpm range. It seems to me that you have both a mechanical issue with the throttle body pully profile which seems to be progressive and not linear as well as the ECU issues. The Barbarian mod and the PC3 both seem to address the ECU issues while the G2ergo and the Fred Harmon shim address the mechanical issues. It would seem logical to me that "IF" you have "the problem" or percieve to have "the problem" that you would have to address both the mechanical and ECU issues to fix it. The exception would be the good enough for government work rule which says I did one of the mods and it was good enough for me. One of the things that I find interesting and confusing is how guys do the Barbarian mod AND run an off the shelf PC3 maps. In my Triumph I program the ECU directly. Some guys use PC3's too but the PC3 is downstream of the ECU and it is much more efficient and accurate to map the ECU ON A Triumph. What my point is, is that the Barbarian mod seems to be an ECU mod and then you put a map into a PC3 downstream which is probably looking for a certain output, but the output has been modified. Last but not least, where does rider adjustment fall into this? That's a rhetorical question. Every bike I have ever owned, I have had to compensate for something.
On my bike TBS (Throtle Body iSynchronisation) resolved the issue.
I also heard reports that it does the same on FZ1 and other Yamaha FI bikes.
It seems that for some reason Yamaha factory settings is not very good like they would allow to wide specification.
Anyhow, after explicitly demanded on dealers shop they did TBS and bike is handling like different bike now.
I also heard reports that it does the same on FZ1 and other Yamaha FI bikes.
It seems that for some reason Yamaha factory settings is not very good like they would allow to wide specification.
Anyhow, after explicitly demanded on dealers shop they did TBS and bike is handling like different bike now.
sprint_st
Well-known member
I thought that was part of each scheduled maintenance check to include the 600 mile initial check?
ionbeam
2 FUN
sprint st say:
In terms of engine smoothness issues there is surging -- light loads, lower throttle settings; engine abruptness -- decel fuel cut-off and sudden reactivation of FI; throttle control 1 -- trying to maintain smooth operation while dealing with the previous mentioned engine smoothness items as well as strong throttle return springs; throttle control 2 -- the ratio of grip rotation to throttle pulley movement, effecting rate of throttle plate movement. Another role player is spark timing for retard/advance. Spark remapping doesn't seem to be available for the FJR engine management system (at least so far). Boy would I *love* to have spark mapping as part of a PCIII program.
The barbarian jumper/CO mod lets you manage engine heat and light load surging in a narrow, one dimensional way. The PCIII helps all of the engine smoothness issues in more of a 3D way. The G2 at the grip end of the throttle cable and FredShims at the throttle pulley address the mechanical throttle control. The springie-thingie which neuters spring tension addresses some of the throttle control problems.
FWIW, the surging is related to meeting emissions beyond 2008 causing leanness just off idle to ~3k RPM, but doesn't seem to effect all bikes the same amount. The decel fuel cut-off is real, it is explained in the FSM. All bikes must have the decel abruptness to some degree (heck, it's built in). Things like drive-line slop and spark timing variations can contribute to making decel either prominent of passive. Throttle springs are the same for everyone, engine smoothness issues along with individual needs and perceptions will cause this to range from no issue to major issue. Throttle ratio is primarily a Gen II thing. The mechanics are the same for everyone so it is an individual needs and perception issue.
Someone will be right along and fill in what I missed B) and disagree with everything I wrote :lol:
I agree, and it varies between Gen I and Gen II FJRs. Just to thow out some thoughts:
In terms of engine smoothness issues there is surging -- light loads, lower throttle settings; engine abruptness -- decel fuel cut-off and sudden reactivation of FI; throttle control 1 -- trying to maintain smooth operation while dealing with the previous mentioned engine smoothness items as well as strong throttle return springs; throttle control 2 -- the ratio of grip rotation to throttle pulley movement, effecting rate of throttle plate movement. Another role player is spark timing for retard/advance. Spark remapping doesn't seem to be available for the FJR engine management system (at least so far). Boy would I *love* to have spark mapping as part of a PCIII program.
The barbarian jumper/CO mod lets you manage engine heat and light load surging in a narrow, one dimensional way. The PCIII helps all of the engine smoothness issues in more of a 3D way. The G2 at the grip end of the throttle cable and FredShims at the throttle pulley address the mechanical throttle control. The springie-thingie which neuters spring tension addresses some of the throttle control problems.
FWIW, the surging is related to meeting emissions beyond 2008 causing leanness just off idle to ~3k RPM, but doesn't seem to effect all bikes the same amount. The decel fuel cut-off is real, it is explained in the FSM. All bikes must have the decel abruptness to some degree (heck, it's built in). Things like drive-line slop and spark timing variations can contribute to making decel either prominent of passive. Throttle springs are the same for everyone, engine smoothness issues along with individual needs and perceptions will cause this to range from no issue to major issue. Throttle ratio is primarily a Gen II thing. The mechanics are the same for everyone so it is an individual needs and perception issue.
Someone will be right along and fill in what I missed B) and disagree with everything I wrote :lol:
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sprint_st
Well-known member
Prior to 05 all Triumph 955i engines used a Sagem ECU which could be tuned/mapped for various items that impacted F/A ratios AND spark at all RPM's. Nice aye??? Lot's of motor heads including me, bought a cable and PC program called TuneBoy and you could turn your engine to dust or make it fly depending on your level of competence. Sure would be nice if you could do that on an FJR. I won't have my 06 until Dec 27 so I'm armchair quarterbacking, but it appears to me that lightening up the spring tension is step one. The problem that I haven't figured out is which is better (price not being an issue) the cam/tube method or the Fred Harmon method. Actually I lean toward the Fred Harmon method because I don't see the cam actually lightening up the force on the throttle. Now for PC3 and/or Barbarian +7, I don't have a clue and will determine that after riding the bike.
FantasticJohnR
Well-known member
+4 Have had a FJR since 2003 (have a 2006 now) and guess I am just used to the throttle.
cota95
RI Beach Pop
sprint_st
Well-known member
I've seen lots of "problems" on bikes and they all fall into two categories:
#1 If YOU don't have "the problem" then there is no problem!
#2 If you do have "the problem" then YOU do need a solution.
There are several special cases to those categories:
Case 1 - you have the problem and don't realize it.
Case 2 - you don't have the problem therefore no one can have the problem.
Case 3 - you have the problem so everyone should have the problem.
Case 4 - if people think they have a problem someone will sell them something to fix it.
There are enough people who "think they have a problem" that there MUST be a problem which clearly falls under the universal law of where there is smoke there is fire.
The throttle is definitely abrupt on the 06. Many can adjust to it some others can't. If it is your only bike the chances are you will be able to adjust to it. If you have more than one bike it can be annoying going back and forth. I find the FJR throttle more abrupt than any other bike I have ridden. Mid-corner throttle adjustments can be more exciting than they need to be. I am hoping a new throttle sleeve with a different cam will be the last adjustment I need to make.
feliz
Well-known member
+6 - No problem here, after all, I am cranking on/off 145 hp (OK, 125 at the wheel) with my 66 year old wrist.
Only adjustment I had to make when starting to ride my 06 was getting used to how soon in the clutch lever throw it starts grabbing, like right now. I understand this is also an 06 change. feliz
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