Altitude surging on 07 fix
- Thread starter un4gvn
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AGirl
Well-known member
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Oh good grief is right... I reported this 3 months ago in MAY (including the spirited pace thing!). Geez, where have you guys been?? https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=20392&st=0 - (post #1 & #19). My 07 has 17k... and has been collecting dust for the last 9 weeks.
AGirl
willobandb
Active member
AGirl,
I became aware of this problem on my bike while riding directly from Seneca, SC to the Blue Ridge Parkway, near the Pisgah Inn west of Asheville, NC in late April. When I saw your report in May, I read that with particular interest in the hopes that you would be able to get it figured out while you were on that trip. For whatever reason, I did not have the same problem when I rode the entire NC portion of the Blue Ridge Parkway just before Memorial Day.
And, in a side note, while your '07 FJR has been gathering dust, I have enjoyed reading about your Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 gathering MUD on your Alaska trip.
Alaska 2007!
Been to Alaska twice but never on a bike, your pictures and narratives have been a terrific reminder of the beauty and majesty of the 49th state, especially when you can break away from the major tourist areas!
Bob
I beleive the point was that this forum has been aware of the problem for a long time. For Yamaha or whomever to be witholding that info from all FJR owners is ridiculous. Apparently Yamaha did not read your posts either, I certainly had not. I became exasperated with it all and posted something with a title designed to get their attention, as I'd heard they were monitoring the board. Maybe it worked, who knows.
un4gvn
Well-known member
Fine...The error is in the ECU's programming, more specificly in when it samples the atmospheric pressure. I'll use nice round numbers to make this easier, but in 06 the ECU would sample the atmospheric pressure say after the throttle opening changes by 5%. The 2007 model samples the atmospheric pressure after say 15% change in throttle opening. So, say you are out riding and you change elevation, but never change the throttle opening by more than the predetermined difference then the bike may be fueling for a different elevation than you are actually riding at. viola, you have surging. If you are riding agressively then you tend to change throttle opening by larger amounts and the glitch is a non issue. As for the 06 models they have a different type of surging which is more related the the throttle pully on the throttle bodies and usually complain of "herky jerky" and such, but it is not the same Altitude surging as the 07's. There you may be happy with that answer or not, however it will not change anything, you still need to give Yamaha some time to sort out the details of the fix. Just be patient.
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This particular problem, if it is the problem, would have been very easy to both diagnose and fix. Wonder why it took so freaking long for Yamaha to replicate and why is is taking so long to fix? Were the people working on it not familiar with the ECU programming? One line of code...or maybe there is a lot more to it.
alan sh
Well-known member
Ahah - thanks for that. I'm off to Spain next month - I know now that I can live with the issue until it gets fixed (which won't be before I leave).
Alan
Alan
PA1195
Well-known member
Fine...The error is in the ECU's programming, more specificly in when it samples the atmospheric pressure. *SNIP*
Thanks un4gvn for the positive response. Again, the Golden Rule is applied.
Gary in Fairbanks
Thanks un4gvn for the positive response. Again, the Golden Rule is applied.
Gary in Fairbanks
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eeksnake
Not dead, just smell that way
Thanks for the tidbit un4gvn.
I just got back from a trip through Colorado where I got to experience the surging issue first hand. Next time it resurfaces I'll try the "spirited" riding technique.
Be patient? No sweat. I'm a former 2002 VFR owner (read VTEC). AFAIK, Honda still denies there's an surging issue.
I just got back from a trip through Colorado where I got to experience the surging issue first hand. Next time it resurfaces I'll try the "spirited" riding technique.
Be patient? No sweat. I'm a former 2002 VFR owner (read VTEC). AFAIK, Honda still denies there's an surging issue.
BBQ
Well-known member
Follow the $$$$. That is why the problem is taking time. They want to spend the least $$$$ possible.
That's most likely true... but it's gonna cost 'em more to pinpoint and engineer a fix than it is to remanufacture a part. And what Yama seems least concerned about, it will cost them customers.
Better for them to get on the ball, fix the damn problem then move on to building the next gen.
All companies have the same mindset, Honda seems to be especially bad about this kind of thing.
Lennie
painman
Well-known member
I can tell you one thing for sure and that the "SURGE" on my 06 IS NOT A DIFFERENT TYPE "SURGE" THAN THE 07! There I said it and I'll stand behind it. Though my 06 has only gone into the "SURGE MODE" twice in 7500 miles, it is in fact no different than the surge the 07 is experiencing only they do it for longer periods of time and with more frequency and its more radical. It is not pully related, I repeat, "NOT" pully related! It is not a herkey jerkey type reaction or any other throttle cable/pully related problem nor is it an abrupt throttle problem. It is more than likely ECU related and it's like the bike is not getting any fuel or the proper amount of fuel during these episodes, the rider tries to apply more throttle with no success then all of a sudden you now have too much throttle. The surging is a "LEAN" surge and it is the same problems experienced by the other Yamaha models that have had the same issue. The ECU is in my estimation the problem as mentioned. So the 06 does have the same problem! And it has been noted previously by Truwrecks the earlier production 06 models have had the largest amount of "surging issues" as have the 07's. I have contacted my dealer and it is in writting that my problem is a "SURGING" problem and it is the same as the 07 models. And I don't care how you ride the bike, the problem is "NOT" rider related. In my instances if I had been riding any more aggressive, I would have been in the side of a mountain with my 06 wrapped around my ugly mug! So, I still have an 06 that wants to surge usually in the downhill mode while changing altitude and the starting of applying throttle usually around the 2 - 3 thousand foot elevation level. And as soon as Yamaha comes out with a fix, if they do, I'll be ready to fix my surging 2006 FJR. And if they want to exclude my 06, then my 06 wheel becomes real squeeky, but that's a whole nuther problem.....PM. <><
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Mick
Member
Del,
I think you are correct in most of your assumptions but I hope Yamaha isn't working on a solution for a minor surge problem.
This (when it happens) is an almost total loss of throttle control. I also believe it is an overly RICH condition and not a lean condition. Most riders who have watched their instantaneous fuel mileage when the bike is acting up see numbers down in the 12-20MPG range. When these bikes go "off the map" they are almost unrideable.
Mick
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ELP_JC
Well-known member
This is absolutely true at least on my bike. I cranked up the CO levels on my bike (to +7), and it surged even worse. And at the end of my mountain run, the cans had so much soot that it looked like my engine had 100K miles, not 400. Definitely an overly rich condition.
And it's not only an ECU issue; it's a combination of issues. A much faster ECU might make things much better, but it's almost impossible IMO to read altitude changes fast enough and accurate enough with just the MAP sensor. Yamaha simply made too many radical changes at once, and didn't test them enough before production. The ECU still has the baro sensor input, and that sensor can be put anywhere, so IMO that's the cheapest and easiest fix, along with an obvious ECU reflash. But that still might be a hard sell with the bean counters. We'll see. No official word from Yamaha, and that's bad news to me. Only unofficial speculation, but what they're doing, and at which stage of the fix they are is a mystery. More often than not manufacturers focus on fixing the problem on the next model run, and the affected bikes are 'forgotten', especially when they're not that many affected; hope that's not the case here. Later gang.
JC
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Longrider
Well-known member
Keep in mind that all things related to emissions and pollution controls are driven by the requirements in California. Only VERY minor changes can be made by the manufacture without having to be re-certified by California. The ECU, sensor systems, etc all fall under this. It is bad enough that Yamaha has to add a evaporative canister and special sticker to the California models. If they made changes to anything else it would open up the whole issue and probably have to be certified by the EPA at the Federal level. That could be why Yamaha is moving slowly and being careful. I'm sure they are working on it and try to find a fix without having to re-certify.
pegscraper
Mr. Photog
Yep, I've had the surge issue since I picked the '07 up in January. I haven't had the opportunity to take it on any major elevations but only at lower levels around San Diego and Riverside Countys. It occurs when holding the throttle steady on slight inclines, usually at the same spot when riding to work in the mornings. It happened again when riding double in the hills on an incline in San Diego County Rte 79. It seems to correct itself when I get hard on the throttle.
I reported it to my Yamy dealer at the 600 mile service and they said they could not duplicate the issue.
We do hope mother Yamy makes the surge fix soon. It is a great machine. :blink:
I reported it to my Yamy dealer at the 600 mile service and they said they could not duplicate the issue.
We do hope mother Yamy makes the surge fix soon. It is a great machine. :blink:
mikerider
Well-known member
Any more news about a fix?
catman2
Member
Mikerider, Ya I sure hope Yamaha gets to it. I talked with their Tec about a week ago and he said that he had just that day heard good news ref a fix, but they would not give him specifics, but they are thinking within the next two months at the most. I feel sorry for the guys that have suffered with this for almost a year as my bike is just coming out of the box. Hope it comes soon as my riding in Mexico involves tight turns, passing crappy trucks and frequent altitude changes. Riding two up with a bad surge would be dangerous at best. If you hear anything keep me posted thank. catman2
