Am I wrong to be upset

[Tim05fjr]

O.K. so my bike started ticking. I took it to the dealer and they confirmed that it is making noise. They called Yamaha and was told to do a valve adjustment as " it is over due" . I asked the service manager that if the valve adjustment doesn't fix the problem, do I have to pay for it. He said , yes, because it is a required service.

I disagreed,showing him the service interval chart in my owners manuel. It clearly shows 26,000 miles.

I leave him the bike and tell him to go ahead and do it, but if it doesn't make the noise go away I will take it up with customer service. I understand that he has to get paid for his time.Whether it be me or Yamaha.

So today I called customer service. Just to get a hold of the situation. The lady I spoke to seemed to be aware of the issue. She said that I was responsable to pay for the valve adjustment and if that didn't take care of it they were going to give the go ahead to replace the exhaust valve gudes and seals under warranty. But I still have to pay for the valve adjustment. I told her that I don't understand how I'm supposed to pay for diagnostic labor. If the valve adjustment solves the problem, then fine, it's fixed, I pay and I'm on my merry way. But if it's indeed a warranty issue, Yamaha should pay for diagnostic time and the repair. She then put me on hold while she called the dealer. When she returned she said that the dealer wants four hours labor ( at $85.00 hr) to do the service,Yamaha will pay for half regaurdless of the outcome. Then they will pay for the vale guide replacement if need be.

I don't know. maybe I'm jumping the gun, but from the noise I don't feel that a vavle adjustment is going to do ****. And I'm going to be out $170.00 for the dealer to have a learning experience. Or am I wrong , should I be happy that it is going to get fixed for $170.00 no matter what.

Please tell me your feelings on this, maybe I'll sleep better tonight.

Tim

 

[SkooterG]

I consider that to be total ********.

They are telling you you need a non-regular type service or maintenance to fix a specific problem. Valve adjustment interval is 26k as you stated. If they say you need one before that, that is on their dime because it is due to a defective product that they sold you. IMHO.

I would continue to raise hell with Yammie corporate.

 

[Windjammer]

Question you could ask:

Why do I need an unscheduled maintenance procedure to troubleshoot a known problem on what is essentially a brand new product? 15K is NOTHING by modern vehicle standards.

If all else fails, tell them even your Harley went more than 15K before the valve train went to ****.

If even that fails, tell the dealer to do nothing. Take your bike back and ride it 'til oil comes out the exhaust. Then ask them if they still need a valve adjustment to determine what the problem is.

Or, just go to a dealer that doesn't give you the runaround.

 

[skyway]

I will not pay anyone a dime for warranty work. Suggest to your stealer that you are going to verify with the Better Business Bureau about the upcoming cost of unscheduled maintenance.

It looks as though you have 3 options

Pay the stealer (I wouldn't give that maggot 1 dime of your money, let alone mine)

Find another dealer who is more sympathetic to your issue (much better option)

Ride the MOFO until it pukes (As suggested above. Much better option)

Heck I won't even send you a bill either.

Since it is extremely unlikely that this problem would leave you stranded on a lonely highway, I would ride on. Provided you will still be under warranty in the meantime.

 

[Toecutter]

It sounds like the dealer is trying to bend you over. Maybe they are trying to get money out of you, even though Yamaha is paying them to do the valve adjust. On mine, at 22,000 miles when I took it in, the same Yamaha authorized my dealer to do a valve adjust, because the bike wasn't due for another 4,000 miles.

Ask them for the phone number they are using and the name of who they are talking with so you can verify their story, then see if their tune changes. If it does, run like hell.

 

[skyway]

So today I called customer service. Just to get a hold of the situation. The lady I spoke to seemed to be aware of the issue. She said that I was responsable to pay for the valve adjustment and if that didn't take care of it they were going to give the go ahead to replace the exhaust valve gudes and seals under warranty. But I still have to pay for the valve adjustment.

Are we talking about Yamaha at Cypress?

When my bike first ticked, it was on my dime until all requested checks from the tech line were within spec. When all requested checks came back within spec, Yamaha picked up the entire tab for all diagnosis and repairs.

 

[zzkenoman]

O.K. so my bike started ticking. I took it to the dealer and they confirmed that it is making noise. They called Yamaha and was told to do a valve adjustment as " it is over due" . I asked the service manager that if the valve adjustment doesn't fix the problem, do I have to pay for it. He said , yes, because it is a required service.I disagreed,showing him the service interval chart in my owners manuel. It clearly shows 26,000 miles.

I leave him the bike and tell him to go ahead and do it, but if it doesn't make the noise go away I will take it up with customer service. I understand that he has to get paid for his time.Whether it be me or Yamaha.

So today I called customer service. Just to get a hold of the situation. The lady I spoke to seemed to be aware of the issue. She said that I was responsable to pay for the valve adjustment and if that didn't take care of it they were going to give the go ahead to replace the exhaust valve gudes and seals under warranty. But I still have to pay for the valve adjustment. I told her that I don't understand how I'm supposed to pay for diagnostic labor. If the valve adjustment solves the problem, then fine, it's fixed, I pay and I'm on my merry way. But if it's indeed a warranty issue, Yamaha should pay for diagnostic time and the repair. She then put me on hold while she called the dealer. When she returned she said that the dealer wants four hours labor ( at $85.00 hr) to do the service,Yamaha will pay for half regaurdless of the outcome. Then they will pay for the vale guide replacement if need be.

I don't know. maybe I'm jumping the gun, but from the noise I don't feel that a vavle adjustment is going to do ****. And I'm going to be out $170.00 for the dealer to have a learning experience. Or am I wrong , should I be happy that it is going to get fixed for $170.00 no matter what.

Please tell me your feelings on this, maybe I'll sleep better tonight.

Tim

where is this dealer?

 

[motorgod]

I say run until 26k..do the valve adjustment, its due anyway, and let the dealer fix the ticking on his dime. If you have a good relationship with your dealer, they may only charge you for shims if needed. They'll have the cams off anyway for the fix and will need to do an adjustment then. The ticking only sounds like **** anyway. I have never heard of anyone being stranded because of it.

 

[Warchild]

I don't know. maybe I'm jumping the gun, but from the noise I don't feel that a vavle adjustment is going to do ****. And I'm going to be out $170.00 for the dealer to have a learning experience. Or am I wrong , should I be happy that it is going to get fixed for $170.00 no matter what.
Please tell me your feelings on this, maybe I'll sleep better tonight.

Tim

Do these two things:

1) Retrieve your bike from this dealership. Just go get it back. Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Do it now.

2) Tell us who this dealer is, so others don't suffer your fate.

These dealerships are going to eventually learn - one way or another, sooner or later - that the power of the internet has changed the way they must conduct themselves with a consumer armed with knowledge. Not hear-say. Not rumor. But demonstrated, repeatable facts and evidence.

You know your bike is ticking. You know precisely what the problems is. You have excessive valve guide clearance, primarily on the exhaust valves on cylinders 1 & 2. You know what needs to be done to fix it.

The first thing to do is to get your property away from this ******* dealership before your **** is damaged.

If it was me, I'd be at their doors when they were unlocked first thing tomorrow morning, and retrieve my bike. Never look back, and never darken their doorway again.

 

[Ramblin Man]

Now THAT'S good advice!

 

[Tim05fjr]

Thanks for the advice.

I am going to the dealer this morning with helmet in hand.

I'm going to tell him that I'm not happy with the way It's being handeled on both ends. Theirs and Yamaha's. Hopefuly nothing has been taken apart yet.

Then I will call Yamaha again and ask if there is another dealer in my area that has dealt with this issue already.

My warranty is up May 30th. I think it is in my best interest to get a Y.E.S. plan at this point.

The dealer I went to is North Shore Motorsports, Commack N.Y.

This is the 2nd bike I've bought from them in three years. And the last.

Tim

 

[NoCage]

My warranty is up May 30th. I think it is in my best interest to get a Y.E.S. plan at this point.

I thought I heard of some tickers being fixed that were out of warranty... true or false? Anyone?

 

[SkooterG]

My warranty is up May 30th. I think it is in my best interest to get a Y.E.S. plan at this point.

I thought I heard of some tickers being fixed that were out of warranty... true or false? Anyone?

True.

So far, haven't really heard of any that have been out of warranty that haven't been fixed by Yamaha on their dime.

 

[Toecutter]

These dealerships are going to eventually learn - one way or another, sooner or later - that the power of the internet has changed the way they must conduct themselves with a consumer armed with knowledge. Not hear-say. Not rumor. But demonstrated, repeatable facts and evidence.

I made mention of the amount of information available online about this issue to the service manager at my local dealer yesterday. His response was something like "It's mostly ********. We've sold about 15 of these". So I mentioned that it's pretty well known that it's a common problem in about 1 in 10 FJR's. He agreed. And they're now working on fixing their second one, so the numbers are hard to deny. Then I mentioned a concern about assembly lube (based on Jestal's comments on the issue). He may mention it to the tech or it may not be an issue at that shop, but I did all I could. Hopefully, they will learn, little by little. Don't count on it. I don't think they care much. Last weekend, we went car shopping. At three dealerships, I knew more about the car I was looking for ('07 Camry) than any of the salesmen we spoke to.

A wise man once told me- Lesson #1. Nobody cares. Lesson #2. The extent to which they appear to care is governed exclusively by their own self-interest. I haven't found much evidence to contradict this.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

You know it could be that Yamaha might slightly be changing its policy as it sees that the tick is more prevalent than they thought. With the internet more people are aware. Doing a valve adjust before Yamaha specified milage at your cost is not good.

 

[Just Plain Dave]

Do these two things:
1) Retrieve your bike from this dealership. Just go get it back. Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Do it now.

2) Tell us who this dealer is, so others don't suffer your fate.

These dealerships are going to eventually learn - one way or another, sooner or later - that the power of the internet has changed the way they must conduct themselves with a consumer armed with knowledge. Not hear-say. Not rumor. But demonstrated, repeatable facts and evidence.

You know your bike is ticking. You know precisely what the problems is. You have excessive valve guide clearance, primarily on the exhaust valves on cylinders 1 & 2. You know what needs to be done to fix it.

The first thing to do is to get your property away from this ******* dealership before your **** is damaged.

If it was me, I'd be at their doors when they were unlocked first thing tomorrow morning, and retrieve my bike. Never look back, and never darken their doorway again.

[SIZE=21pt]+1+1+1 That says it all![/SIZE]

 

[Apex]

My FJR started ticking at about 15K miles. I took it to my dealer, who didn't think the noise was unusually loud at that point. However, the ticking got louder over the next several thousand miles, and the exhaust valves, guides and seals were replaced (at no charge to me) at about 20K.

The dealer did say it would check the valve clearances before performing any further work, but there was never any suggestion that I should have to pay for a valve adjustment. The reason for this is simple: even if the ticking was being caused by excessive valve clearance, this still would have been a warranty item, as the first scheduled valve adjustment was not until 26K+ miles.

Bottom line, if it is ticking, Yamaha should (and in my case DID) fix it free of charge.

Incidentially, one of the reasons I knew that my ticking noise would not be stopped by a valve ajustment was that the ticking was most pronounced at a specific RPM. In my experience, ticking from misadjusted valves is present at all RPMs.

I hope this helps.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

QUOTE (Warchild @ Feb 21 2006, 11:04 PM)

...dealerships are going to eventually learn - one way or another, sooner or later - that the power of the internet...

toecutter Posted on Feb 22 2006, 10:54 AM

I made mention of the amount of information available online about this issue to the service manager at my local dealer yesterday. His response was something like "It's mostly ********."

I found this to be a common sentiment among service managers -- they're repeatedly hit with comments from customers about what they read on the 'net. I had one hold up his hand and tell me, "I don't want to hear it!" I think that, maybe, in the case of the FJR, only Yamaha 5-star dealers can be trusted with this issue? There may be a few other "professional" shops out there? It'd be good to know who they are.

Remember, "Trust but verify...."

 

[radman]

There are so many dynamics at work here. Jaded service managers, ditto customers who are true enthusiasts, not just walking net repeaters, ignorant salespeople (almost always the case, they are hired for the ability to sell, not spout specs) poison the whole process of ownership, hence the reason so many like me have become advanced DIY'ers and learn the machines better than even the designers, as they rarely have the kind of seat time we take for granted. Poor service managers have had so many moron "all knowledgeable from the net" idiots acting smarter than they are, spouting facts that aren't, they no longer are able to tell the wheat from the chaff, are tired of even trying. So we all fall into the same category. This is one of the best reasons to establish a relationship with a dealership that seems to have at least most of the traits of a good business-this way when you come to them with a ticker and are forearmed with knowledge of the situation, they take you seriously rather than lump you in with the wannabes. The whole customer vs service department fiasco is not unique to motorcycles, Yamahas, or motor homes, the whole industry is rampant with similar tales, because too many people approach the service scene ready for a fight, and find too many burned out (or outright fraudulent) service managers ready to do battle. Believe me, if you are a motorhead that occasionally requires the services of a professional, finding that right person is truly a testament to there being a higher power, and you should embrace this individual like a brother/sister. And some nuts at Christmas wouldn't hurt either.....