Am I wrong to be upset

[radman]

I understand if things go the wrong way, it's all my fault, and I promice not to burden anyone with my woes.
My fingers are crossed and I refilled my Xanex 'script so hopefully all will be right with the world.

Tim

Bull. If it is indeed the tic, or for that matter any warranty-able matter, Yami picks up the bill, the whole bill, that is the deal. If the dealer wants you to pay some extra cash, thats exactly what it is-and you should not have to pay it, or he's blowing his deal with Yamaha. Period. Don't be laying any of that woe is me **** on us-you go in with an AK attitude if that be the game-and that doesn't stand for ***-kissin. And don't worry about WC, in fact, best not to mention his name when talkin with Mama Yami-they have, um, history.......

 

[MCRIDER007]

We had a very civil and pleasent conversation on the phone about our feelings on the billing issue for the valve service. As it stands, I am still responsable for only two hours, Yamaha is footing the bill on everything else. He claimed he was going to work with me to get Yamaha to cover the other two, but said it would be best for me to call them again.

Maybe this has been covered elsewhere, but 4 hours just to remove the valve cover and check the valve clearances really sounds excessive -- especially when they didn't even have to put it back together again. I haven't pulled the valve cover in a FJR yet but I think a good mechanic should be able to verify the clearances in less than 2 hours -- it sounds like you are paying the entire bill for the time they have spent so far.

 

[FJrider1]

OH-- FJrider1-- Sorry I dissed ya on those hand guards. But I had to give them back to Nick(of FarkleMasters). He wanted to see if they would work on his ST1100. I may see him this week end. If he didn't use them, I'll PM you.
Tim

No problem Tim as long as it's Nick getting them...

I'm going to have to agree with Radman on this. If they are covering it under warranty then the whole thing should be there nut. Tell them this is being watched closely on the net and the outcome determines there future. h34r: B) h34r:

 

[Tim05fjr]

OK Rad,

If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

The only thing that I have going for me is the fact that the dealer never had me sighn a work order. So in my book that shows that I never gave him authorization to do a valve adjustment in the first place.

What are your thoughts?

Tim

 

[Bounce]

OK Rad,
If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

The only thing that I have going for me is the fact that the dealer never had me sighn a work order. So in my book that shows that I never gave him authorization to do a valve adjustment in the first place.

What are your thoughts?

Tim

Get a lawyer.

Short of that, pay for your raping and chalk it up to a lesson learned the hard way.

 

[radman]

OK Rad,
If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

  The only thing that I have going for me is the fact that the dealer never had me sighn a work order. So in my book that shows that I never gave him authorization to do a valve adjustment in the first place.

  What are your thoughts?

Tim

The other two hours would be considered part of diagnosis/disassembly time in any shop I've ever run. Maybe I'm missing something here (I usually am) but Yami has been footing the bill on quite a few of these, there is no mystery here, they know the deal and whats involved. Something smells here, and I don't see TDub hangin' round, sooooo..........

 

[SkooterG]

We had a very civil and pleasent conversation on the phone about our feelings on the billing issue for the valve service. As it stands, I am still responsable for only two hours, Yamaha is footing the bill on everything else. He claimed he was going to work with me to get Yamaha to cover the other two, but said it would be best for me to call them again.

Maybe this has been covered elsewhere, but 4 hours just to remove the valve cover and check the valve clearances really sounds excessive -- especially when they didn't even have to put it back together again. I haven't pulled the valve cover in a FJR yet but I think a good mechanic should be able to verify the clearances in less than 2 hours -- it sounds like you are paying the entire bill for the time they have spent so far.

This is an excellent point.

But......(always that but!)............

You were kinda right and kinda wrong.

On both my valve checks I was charged 4 hours labor. The "book rate" or whatever its called. So it is a 4 hour deal, but that is to do the whole job.

Since they are not putting everything back together, it should only be about HALF the normal time, or approximately 2 hours.

So you throw that in their face as to why you shouldn't have to pay for two hours.

I don't know all the info obviously, but from what you have said, your dealer may be being straight with you about the deal he initially worked out with corporate. Regardless, it is un-adulterated ********!

If it was me, I would be on the phone with Yamaha customer service at least once a day raising all kinds of ****. Ask for supervisors!

CUSTOMERS DON'T PAY TO HAVE THE WELL KNOWN "BAD VALVE GUIDES" CONDITION REPAIRED.

Tell them you are on this forum and that you have never heard of a customer paying anything for the repair of "the tick", yet you know of many examples where Yamaha has covered the entire repair.

Your FJR is still under warranty for cryin out loud!

And if none of that works, pay the damned 2 hours of labor which is still relatively cheap in the great scheme of things, and count it as a lesson learned.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

I had to sign a work order for estimated time I think for about $350. Went through the same BS but was told that Yamaha would not charge if found to be the tick. It was so I don't have to pay but I was never asked or told that they need to do the valve adjust first. Sure is frustrating and is much easier to comment than to have a ticker and go through the BS process. Mine is being fixed so the end result will make me happy. Until it ticks again. Please please don't tick again. Knock on wood!! :huh: :huh:

 

[SkooterG]

Parts are on order and the dealer says that if he gets the parts by midweek it "might" be finished by the end of the week. I'm not going to hold my breath, but if so, that would be nice. I know there has got to be a machine shop involved at some point and I know how they could be at times.

Don't be surprised if it takes a while for them to get all the proper parts. History has shown that parts can be on backorder and take weeks to arrive.

I would also verify that they ordering new head bolts, as those will need to be replaced, and has been overlooked by dealers in the past.

 

[MCRIDER007]

You were kinda right and kinda wrong.
On both my valve checks I was charged 4 hours labor.  The "book rate" or whatever its called.  So it is a 4 hour deal, but that is to do the whole job.

Since they are not putting everything back together, it should only be about HALF the normal time, or approximately 2 hours.

Actually, SkooterG, what you said validated my statement. I said less than 2 hours to "verify" the valve clearances, that would not include the most timeconsuming part of the job, carefully putting everything back together again.

Is the 4 hour book rate for a valve check or valve adjustment? It seems high for a valve check but maybe low for a valve adjustment since the adjustment requires cam(s) removal and changing shims.

 

[Tim05fjr]

Scooter,

That's why I'm just going to play it cool for now, stay medicated, and wait for the bike to get finished before I start making too much noise at the dealer. He's gonna want to get paid. That won't happen until the job is done and I sighn off on a work order for him to submit to Yamaha.

I'll make my call to Yamaha tomorrow, make sure everything is cool on that end, sit and wait till it's finished (per my inspection and approval), then I'll make the noise.

Tim

Tim

 

[SkooterG]

Is the 4 hour book rate for a valve check or valve adjustment? It seems high for a valve check but maybe low for a valve adjustment since the adjustment requires cam(s) removal and changing shims.

I don't think they distinguish between a "check" and an "adjustment". All the same procedure.

I don't know that for sure however, maybe lotecredneck can give us the correct info on that.

Scooter,That's why I'm just going to play it cool for now, stay medicated, and wait for the bike to get finished before I start making too much noise at the dealer. He's gonna want to get paid. That won't happen until the job is done and I sighn off on a work order for him to submit to Yamaha.

I'll make my call to Yamaha tomorrow, make sure everything is cool on that end, sit and wait till it's finished (per my inspection and approval), then I'll make the noise.

Tim

Tim, I understand your point of view, however...............While I agree I would not be making a big stink with the dealer right now, I WOULD be making a big stink with Yamaha corporate every day until they say they are going to pay for it. Become a thorn in their side, so they will pay for the stupid two hours of labor just to get you off their back.

One thing I have found true in life - The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Fastfar]

Well, here is what yamaha did to me: the fixed my ticker at 18k but only after getting me to authorize a valve adjustment check. When the valves were in spec, I had to authorize some other ******** that might be the problem...when it was confirmed to be a ticker, Yamaha warranteed everything EXCEPT the oil change...I did not pay any of the diagnostic and I still have the receipts.

If you end up with a lawyer, I can send copies...

I think the dealers can screw with tick-fixes even tho corporate says "fix em"...they want to get an extra buck out of it somehow.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I don't think they distinguish between a "check" and an "adjustment".  All the same procedure.
I don't know that for sure however, maybe lotecredneck can give us the correct  info on that.

Thanks for the feedback but I think a valve adjustment on a FJR is quite a bit more complicated (and timely) procedure because it involves removing the camshafts. Removing the camshaft doesn't take much skill but putting it back together requires aligning the camshaft with the crankshaft and knowing where the marks are to do it. A backyard mechanic like myself really can't screw up very much as long as I am just turning the crank and sticking feeler gauges between the camshaft and rocker arms but a misaligned camshaft can lead to a disaster.

If you were charged 4 hours of labor to do an valve adjustment that actually involved changing a shim then a simple valve check should take less time. Don't know how much less, maybe someone who has actually removed a cam can tell us.

 

[user 1521]

If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

Is this legal? Does the mechanic shop have the right to hold the vehicle as collatoral in a dispute?

Probably varies country to country, but the only right of this type that I ever heard of is, if you don't show up to pick up the bike and pay within 3 months of the finish date, they can sell the bike to recover their costs. (general services company law, same for dry cleaners for example).

If you dispute a bill, they have the legal right to persue payment, through the courts, and then normal debt collection. I don't know anything that says they can seize or hold your property.

 

[radman]

If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

Is this legal? Does the mechanic shop have the right to hold the vehicle as collatoral in a dispute?

Probably varies country to country, but the only right of this type that I ever heard of is, if you don't show up to pick up the bike and pay within 3 months of the finish date, they can sell the bike to recover their costs. (general services company law, same for dry cleaners for example).

If you dispute a bill, they have the legal right to persue payment, through the courts, and then normal debt collection. I don't know anything that says they can seize or hold your property.

Mechanics lien. Pretty much standard across the country. Most work orders (that thing you signed before a thorough reading) gives them the right.

 

[twowheelnut]

If Yamaha says that they won't pay for the other two hours. And I refuse to pay the dealer. He is going to tell me he won't release the bike to me. As I would never have given a customer back their vehicle after I done work on it.

Is this legal? Does the mechanic shop have the right to hold the vehicle as collatoral in a dispute?

Probably varies country to country, but the only right of this type that I ever heard of is, if you don't show up to pick up the bike and pay within 3 months of the finish date, they can sell the bike to recover their costs. (general services company law, same for dry cleaners for example).

If you dispute a bill, they have the legal right to persue payment, through the courts, and then normal debt collection. I don't know anything that says they can seize or hold your property.

Mechanics lien. Pretty much standard across the country. Most work orders (that thing you signed before a thorough reading) gives them the right.

Yeah, but they have to paperwork it through the local gubermint authority. Most have time limits - many must be filed prior to the work being done. Simply by signing the workorder with the lien language doesn't give anyone the right to lien. It simply advises that they will lien for non-payment.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Hey are they just doing the exhaust side or is Yamaha doing the complete valve job. Yamaha just has told my dealer they are only doing the exhaust side. They had to heat the head to extract the seal. Won't this screw up the intake side as well? And if they do nothing to the head won't that compromise the whole job? Help!!!!!! :huh: :angry: :dribble:

 

[Tim05fjr]

Alright, here's my update as of yesterday.

I spoke with Yamaha and they are going to cover the entire thing. Diagnosis, and the repair.

As I understand it. They will replace the exhaust valves, guides, and seals. The woman I spoke to didn't have any information about parts availability. So I guess if there is some kind of back order I will find out soon enough. I did mention to the dealer about the head bolts and he said thet he would look into it when ordering the parts.

I feel much better now, but my worries won't be completely gone until my trusty steed is back.

As far as the whole dealer issue :

Let me just say that I totaly understand the fact that he wanted to get paid for his time. I feel that he needs to work on his people skills a little bit. During the past few days, at no point did I feel the he was on my side. Instead of saying to me," well at 15,000 miles, your due for a valve adjustment." He should have said, " even though the factory does'nt recommend a valve adjustment at this time, I feel we should check them, and if they are within spec. I'll take it up with Yamaha and see what they will do about it."

At least that way I would have felt he was working with me. He left all the leg work up to me. I should never have had to call Customer Service.

I guess I'll just wait and see what the whole final outcome is. Then I'll voice an opinion on the entire experience.

Tim

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

I had a similar experience. They need Yamaha's approval for everything. I was told this is bigger than Yamaha has figured and is costing them plenty. They are getting a little freakish about all the repairs. I don't know what my holdup is. The head is having done to it what is necessary. Have no idea if the parts are in or what and I just talked to the dealer yesterday but kindof got sidetracked on why they have to do something on the intake side so they need more approval from Yamaha. Hope it doesn't cost me.