Analyses of recent accidents

[Toecutter]

Maybe we should have lunch and talk this out. Now, where to meet Bob? Sonora? Modesto?

I vote Sonora! My ride there is always :good:

A good ride leader rides more with his mirrors than anyone -- it's not easy...

[SIZE=18pt]Big[/SIZE]

 

[exskibum]

That said, my safety briefings and written concerns apparently weren't heard by a few riders that I let go ahead of me mid ride.

I was aggressively tailgaited to the point of having a bike beside me in my lane at 50 mph at times. I understand that riding in groups is new to people, but there are those that won't listen. The beer drinkers that TC mentioned earlier were just doing something they've done for years. I'm sure they had no clue that drinking beer at lunch might concern some of the other riders. You'd figure that wouldn't be too hard to figure out.

The bottom line I have is this: If I brief a rider on safety concerns and they ignore that briefing, I will pull over and ask that rider to move on and I'll wait long enough to ensure we don't catch him. Either that, or I'll just ask the guy to leave the ride. I don't want to be a jerk about stuff, but I also have had my fill of friends going down and I don't want to witness it if possible.

Here you have stated the problem with organizing group rides. I remember we were discussing some of these very points via email last year when I expressed my increasing stress level when organizing rides. The difficulty in enforcing any rule becomes the issue. The rides are open to all who read and post.

It has always concerned me that, even with the best intentions, many riders aren't applying what is outlined during the pre-ride briefing. I mentioned above that I was upset when riding sweep by:

A.) Riders crowding one another.

B.) Riders choosing poor lines through corners (including having their head if not parts of their bike over the centerline).

C.) Riders entering corners too hot and running wide on exit.

And I can't help feeling responsible if I organized the ride.

I real do not want to think we need a "Ride Captain" and a sheriff, but anarchy isn't working.

Since a pre-ride safety briefing has become "fairly normal" for the NorCal groups we should consider "stressing" some points when posting the ride:

1.) No alcoholic beverages when we are going to be riding (including lunch).

2.) We WILL be riding "The Pace". If you lack self-control and bike-control you might want to consider not joining this ride.

3.) Ride your own ride. I know I say this everytime I give "The Pre-Ride Lecture"....yeah, yeah, I like being the Dad...but some still don't "get it". I appreciate Painman realizing his limitations on the FJR, slowing down and riding at the rear of the pack. Great personal responibility!

I really liked the idea of not riding en masse. Riding in 2s and 3s and having set rendezvous points for breaks and lunch is working for me. (Of course, I had a great partner to pair up with. :yahoo: )

Perhaps you're right Andrew, we are just going to have to get "mildly confrontational" for the good of everyone. I know there are riders out there who can ride circles around me but that ability doesn't play well in a group. 2s and 3s let the "fasties" go ahead of the "mildly fast", the "wannabe fast" and the "scenery appreciative".

Your turn. Maybe we should have lunch and talk this out. Now, where to meet Bob? Sonora? Modesto?

[SIZE=8pt]signed:[/SIZE]Sparky

I was there when O'Vale gave that pre ride briefing, and it was s good one, leaning on the Pace and on intervals between bikes. In fact, after he was done, I chimed in about riders paying attention to the riders behind them, noting the example of the bear stop experience TC and Brenda had experienced. I was on my Blackbird that day instead of the FJR. O'Vale led, and I started out in 3d position behind the no. 2 rider on a V-Strom who was too close to O'Vale from the beginning. But, . . . be damned if we didn't have a jack off V-Strom rider (no. 4) playing like a damned jumping jack ass up and back on my ass until I let him by, and then I watched his stupidity until he was all over Andrew's ass heading toward 50 and then going up Icehouse, when Andrew finally pulled over and let those two V-Stroms by. (BTW, Andrew was leading at a brisk pace, especially considering that there was a lot of wet pavement that morning.) At that point, I also stopped and from there on, became the VERY last rider, sweeping even the sweeper, with lots of room where I could finally enjoy the ride. Believe me, Andrew is being kind in saying as little as he did about the jack ass moves behind and beside him. I was Fucking Livid when we pulled over for the first break, but got into a conversation with someone else about bikes and failed to confront the primary idiot (no. 4 on the V-Strom).

It's the Golden Rule of motorcycling: would YOU want to have to deal with THAT in your mirrors?!? As if there wasn't enough to worry about coming at you without worrying about having your margins and options trimmed from behind.

I was seriously put off (even more than before) on large group rides by that Nov. 4 ride. I'm sorry to see BBIII retire, because I've had him behind me a number of times, and I've always been very comfortable with his riding. I'll ride with MadMike any time, same with O'Vale, TC, Ric in Sac, Highlander and the Bluestreeks. Shit, with those guys, I could enjoy even a parade. But they use common sense, courtesy and the Golden Rule. Everyone of them rides their own rides, in such a way as to not interfere with others. It ISN'T a race!! (I'm especially flummoxed when a guy riding a 105 HP V-Strom wants to play race games with me on a 145 HP Blackbird like he did for a stretch on Hwy. 50. WTF?????) Which is more stupid? Turning a group ride on a public road into a race, or ignoring the fact that your bike has NO chance of keeping up if it was a race? (Hint: it's the former.)

Here's my take: if you don't know and haven't ridden with the bulk of the group, your first task is to demonstrate that you're a good and safe rider that won't compromise their safety. As to the folks I've specifically mentioned, I'd ride in a group with them anytime, in any condition, and have a blast feeling like I and my pillion are going to be safe and have a great time.

The main accident prevention issue is common sense, the Golden Rule and common courtesy.

 

[painman]

Very good synopsis exskibum. I after coming to the FJR from cruiserdom I am in the position of really learning how to ride as riding cruisers don't really challenge one as the sport/touring type bike does. This is a whole new ballgame. For one, I have in the beginning found myself caught up in trying to ride with the group instead of doing "my" ride and on a couple of occassions almost bit it due to this behavior. I think many riders fall into this trap due to our competitive nature. But, one must use control and restraint when begininng to learn the ins and outs of this type of bike. If you don't you will have disasterous results! Riding the pace, listening and watching other riders with more experience, knowing when your tired and focus is lacking, and using common sence that God gave us is where it is at. Also reading and practicing up on skills is a must also. Even taking a riding program or school is of great value. So, until I can develop my skills on my bike and ride my ride, smoothly first, then will I be able to build on the details that will make me a better, safer, and maybe even faster rider. I have physical limitations also but even with this I can develop skills that are within the limits of my ability and the conditions I ride in to in the end have an enjoyable, exciting day of riding. Something the cruiser fell short on though it still has its place. I do want to come home in one piece along with my new bike after the ride. I just hope this can help someone starting out. Be Safe! PM. <>< B)

 

[tripletango]

Woops sorry wrong thread. sent reply to fencers post as that was who i was replying too!

Defensive riding pays off though!