Avon Storm AV55 Front

[Scab]

The web site touts the high-silica content of the compound. Perhaps there was an isolated batch problem or a curing issue. I guess time will tell. If such is the case, this problem should disappear rather soon.

 

[SkooterG]

I did 1220 mile trip from Phoenix across Utah 12 - 24 -&95 & back thru Monument Valley this weekend (Sat night to Mon eve). My last trip on front Storm with about 8000 + miles, a bit of scallop effect from braking but just generally to the wear bars. My second rear Storm is near done with 5000 miles ( same as first tire). I love the handling & "feel" of the Storms & will be putting a new set on soon. . . .

Sounds like you had a fun trip you bastage!!!

What concerns me is the life you are experiencing with the front Storm. I have never gotten below 13,000 miles with a front Azarro, and up to 18,000.

 

[Scab]

I have never gotten below 13,000 miles with a front Azarro, and up to 18,000.

Yeah, but your tires don't even touch the ground. It's hard to wear them out when they are airborne accross the Playa.

 

[twowheelnut]

Yeah, but your tires don't even touch the ground. It's hard to wear them out when they are airborne accross the Playa.

No, the issue is more that skoot runs lots of straight roads as compared to most of us. He doesn't believe that his type of riding puts a lot less stress on the tire that results in a greatly improved tread life. Now, if I could get the boy on my roads for 6k miles, I'd be able to get my point through that thick, pointy skull of his.

 

[Scab]

I'd be able to get my point through that thick, pointy skull of his.

If not, try flattening out the point with a hammer.

 

[sprint_st]

Just got back from ESTN07. There were 10 to 12 FJR's there. Guy on 04? said he had two cases of high speed wobble on way to Sparta. One of the incidents was so severe he believe he was lucky that it didn't pitch him into the weeds. I also experienced the problem on my 06. Tires were very new with less than 500 miles. I flat ran the heck of them on world class twisties for three days with absolutely no problem and they handled great. That said I can replicate the wobble with a 100% replication rate. Deceleration slowly on a downhill from a speed in excess of 50mph in a straight line. Take your hands off the bars and as the bike drops below 50 the vibration begins and become more violent with time. Grab the bar with one finger or more and the vibration stops. Above 50 nothing. Below 40 nothing.

 

[twowheelnut]

Just got back from ESTN07. There were 10 to 12 FJR's there. Guy on 04? said he had two cases of high speed wobble on way to Sparta. One of the incidents was so severe he believe he was lucky that it didn't pitch him into the weeds. I also experienced the problem on my 06. Tires were very new with less than 500 miles. I flat ran the heck of them on world class twisties for three days with absolutely no problem and they handled great. That said I can replicate the wobble with a 100% replication rate. Deceleration slowly on a downhill from a speed in excess of 50mph in a straight line. Take your hands off the bars and as the bike drops below 50 the vibration begins and become more violent with time. Grab the bar with one finger or more and the vibration stops. Above 50 nothing. Below 40 nothing.

Suspension set-up. Mine is dead stable and planted like an oak tree with the Storms. I did alter the set-up upon changing from PR's to the Storms, so I have no idea what you guys are doing/not doing, but it ain't the tires.

 

[Fred W]

What skooter is referring to is matching the lite tire spot to heavy rim spot. You will need to dismount the tire, find the heavy spot on the rim by balancing just the rim. Then remount the tire, air up and pop the beads. Rebalance the assembly finding the new balance point and then break the beads and rotate the tire to match. The object is to minimize the weight necessary to balance the assembly.

I'm not willing to do that much work. I change tires too often to spend that much time mounting/dismounting/re-mounting. IMO Avon should put a damn dot on their tires like everyone else.

You don't have to remount the tire. You do it this-a-way:

Pull off the old tire. Remove any old weights and clean up the wheel.

Put the unshod wheel on the balancer and find the lightest spot.

Temporarily add weights to light spot to balance the wheel without the tire. Stick the weights on with masking tape or something similar.

Use a sharpie or magic marker to write down the weights and mark their locations on the outyer-most surface of the rim (would be inside of the tire when mounted). This is so you don't have to balance your bare wheel again next time.

Mount the tire and air it up a little. Now use balancer to find the heavy spot. Since you just balanced the wheel the heavy spot is from the tire only. Mark the heavy spot with white-out.

Air down the tire and break the bead. Spin the tire on the wheel so the heavy spot coincides with the light spot on the rim.

Air up the tire and remove the temporary weights. Now balance the wheel and you will use much less (if any) weight.

 

[sprint_st]

Suspension set-up. Mine is dead stable and planted like an oak tree with the Storms. I did alter the set-up upon changing from PR's to the Storms, so I have no idea what you guys are doing/not doing, but it ain't the tires.

Kind of a blanket statement there dude and based solely on your experience with one set of tires. In theory, changing the suspension settings should have absolutely no effect what so ever that would produce this situation IF the wheel and/or tire were OK. If it were just one person having this issue, that might give some credence to your position, however the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process. These cases include people who mount the tire themselves and who have had them mounted by dealers.

Also, I just got an email from Avon that they want to contact me about warrantying out this tire. When you factor in liability issues, that doesn't really prove anything. I'm not sure I want to go through the warranty exchange business especially pulling the thing off during prime riding season. If I keep my hands on the bars there isn't a problem. If it is on the level or up hill there isn't a problem and it only happens in one speed range. I will be putting in new fork springs next week which will give me an opportunity to recheck the balance of the tire and I think I'll check the steering head bearing tomorrow BUT, that is BUT, AGAIN, the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process and we guys aren't doing/not doing anything to cause this.

 

[twowheelnut]

Kind of a blanket statement there dude and based solely on your experience with one set of tires. In theory, changing the suspension settings should have absolutely no effect what so ever that would produce this situation IF the wheel and/or tire were OK. If it were just one person having this issue, that might give some credence to your position, however the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process. These cases include people who mount the tire themselves and who have had them mounted by dealers.
Also, I just got an email from Avon that they want to contact me about warrantying out this tire. When you factor in liability issues, that doesn't really prove anything. I'm not sure I want to go through the warranty exchange business especially pulling the thing off during prime riding season. If I keep my hands on the bars there isn't a problem. If it is on the level or up hill there isn't a problem and it only happens in one speed range. I will be putting in new fork springs next week which will give me an opportunity to recheck the balance of the tire and I think I'll check the steering head bearing tomorrow BUT, that is BUT, AGAIN, the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process and we guys aren't doing/not doing anything to cause this.

Huh? How do you figure that tires won't affect suspension? If the profiles are different or the OA height is different, or airing, etc., they sure as hell will affect suspension. Also, other brands of tires have created the EXACT same head shake scenario being described here. Most with the Azaros, but I've seen reports with other brands, too.

As for solely mine own experience, only a few of you are having issues. The majority are not. Still, there has not been one, single documented and proven defective Storm that I am aware of. That fact alone puts more weight on my theory being more toward the correct side of the scale.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

was that case me? If not, 2

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Suspension set-up. Mine is dead stable and planted like an oak tree with the Storms. I did alter the set-up upon changing from PR's to the Storms, so I have no idea what you guys are doing/not doing, but it ain't the tires.

Kind of a blanket statement there dude and based solely on your experience with one set of tires. In theory, changing the suspension settings should have absolutely no effect what so ever that would produce this situation IF the wheel and/or tire were OK. If it were just one person having this issue, that might give some credence to your position, however the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process. These cases include people who mount the tire themselves and who have had them mounted by dealers.

Also, I just got an email from Avon that they want to contact me about warrantying out this tire. When you factor in liability issues, that doesn't really prove anything. I'm not sure I want to go through the warranty exchange business especially pulling the thing off during prime riding season. If I keep my hands on the bars there isn't a problem. If it is on the level or up hill there isn't a problem and it only happens in one speed range. I will be putting in new fork springs next week which will give me an opportunity to recheck the balance of the tire and I think I'll check the steering head bearing tomorrow BUT, that is BUT, AGAIN, the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process and we guys aren't doing/not doing anything to cause this.

Where are your numbers to support your statement of sheer numbers. From what I have seen on this site of FJR's there are only a few reported problems. I will bet most of FJR owners cannot properly set up their suspension. I know quite a bit and it took a suspension pro to tune my FJR to it finest since I have had it, almost 5 years now. I have run multiple sets of the 45/46 and never had a problem with any of the sets. I read the same into the Storms from data on this and other sites.

This is probably where the +1 people in support of this product need to weigh in. Sounds like the same numbers you are quoting from somewhere that the tickers brought about. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, all the other lubed parts don't squeak.

 

[twowheelnut]

Suspension set-up. Mine is dead stable and planted like an oak tree with the Storms. I did alter the set-up upon changing from PR's to the Storms, so I have no idea what you guys are doing/not doing, but it ain't the tires.

Kind of a blanket statement there dude and based solely on your experience with one set of tires. In theory, changing the suspension settings should have absolutely no effect what so ever that would produce this situation IF the wheel and/or tire were OK. If it were just one person having this issue, that might give some credence to your position, however the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process. These cases include people who mount the tire themselves and who have had them mounted by dealers.

Also, I just got an email from Avon that they want to contact me about warrantying out this tire. When you factor in liability issues, that doesn't really prove anything. I'm not sure I want to go through the warranty exchange business especially pulling the thing off during prime riding season. If I keep my hands on the bars there isn't a problem. If it is on the level or up hill there isn't a problem and it only happens in one speed range. I will be putting in new fork springs next week which will give me an opportunity to recheck the balance of the tire and I think I'll check the steering head bearing tomorrow BUT, that is BUT, AGAIN, the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process and we guys aren't doing/not doing anything to cause this.

Where are your numbers to support your statement of sheer numbers. From what I have seen on this site of FJR's there are only a few reported problems. I will bet most of FJR owners cannot properly set up their suspension. I know quite a bit and it took a suspension pro to tune my FJR to it finest since I have had it, almost 5 years now. I have run multiple sets of the 45/46 and never had a problem with any of the sets. I read the same into the Storms from data on this and other sites.

This is probably where the +1 people in support of this product need to weigh in. Sounds like the same numbers you are quoting from somewhere that the tickers brought about. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, all the other lubed parts don't squeak.

So, you got that sawbuck I sent then, eh? :lol:

was that case me? If not, 2

Your issue is not enough weight on the front end, hence the skidishness. I witnessed no wobble on my short ride.

 

[sprint_st]

Kind of a blanket statement there dude and based solely on your experience with one set of tires. In theory, changing the suspension settings should have absolutely no effect what so ever that would produce this situation IF the wheel and/or tire were OK. If it were just one person having this issue, that might give some credence to your position, however the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process. These cases include people who mount the tire themselves and who have had them mounted by dealers.
Also, I just got an email from Avon that they want to contact me about warrantying out this tire. When you factor in liability issues, that doesn't really prove anything. I'm not sure I want to go through the warranty exchange business especially pulling the thing off during prime riding season. If I keep my hands on the bars there isn't a problem. If it is on the level or up hill there isn't a problem and it only happens in one speed range. I will be putting in new fork springs next week which will give me an opportunity to recheck the balance of the tire and I think I'll check the steering head bearing tomorrow BUT, that is BUT, AGAIN, the sheer weight of numbers point to something in the manufacturing process and we guys aren't doing/not doing anything to cause this.

Huh? How do you figure that tires won't affect suspension? If the profiles are different or the OA height is different, or airing, etc., they sure as hell will affect suspension. Also, other brands of tires have created the EXACT same head shake scenario being described here. Most with the Azaros, but I've seen reports with other brands, too.

As for solely mine own experience, only a few of you are having issues. The majority are not. Still, there has not been one, single documented and proven defective Storm that I am aware of. That fact alone puts more weight on my theory being more toward the correct side of the scale.

Yes, tires absolutely have an effect on suspension; however, if you would read what you said and what I said, the point is if the tires were OK you could change the suspension setting from one end of the scale to the other and NOT produce the wobble. That is not the case. Additionally, changing suspension setting may change how and when the wobble occurs, BUT it does not eliminate it. Now if you don't understand the implication of that I'll explain it. The TIRE caused the WOBBLE. Now for those of you who don't understand numbers, when I say the number of incidents point to a manufacturing problem let me explain. When you have a defect, it doesn't mean you have to have some huge amount of defects to cause a problem. If you ever travel over to the NHTSA site you can see that if they have five or ten candidates out of thousands they can make a recall if it is life threatening. If there are three or four reporting it on this forum there are lots more who are not. I used to think this is a minor issue and not worth the effort, but when a guy has the problem twice in one day and one of them almost caused a crash I began to revise my opinion. There are acceptable levels of defects and everything that is manufactured has defects, but I would submit that we have gone beyond that acceptable limit. If your tire is OK, well good for you.

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I just got off the phone with Keith Ost of Avon. Good guy. He believes that we should keep our hands on the bars. Tough to argue with that point. He went on to say that ball bearings in the steering head contribute to the situation because a ball has much less contact area than tapered roller bearings. That's valid too and will probably be a winter project for me. Last but not least he discussed the shape of the front tire. He said it was purposefully pointed to dive in more because of the construction of the rear tire which tended to be harder to turn in. He recommended experimenting with air pressure on a rider by rider basis. What I got out of all of this is that it is neither a manufacturing problem nor a suspension problem. It is mainly a setup problem that is exacerbated by the rider themselves and the steering head bearings.

 

[twowheelnut]

I just got off the phone with Keith Ost of Avon. Good guy. He believes that we should keep our hands on the bars. Tough to argue with that point. He went on to say that ball bearings in the steering head contribute to the situation because a ball has much less contact area than tapered roller bearings. That's valid too and will probably be a winter project for me. Last but not least he discussed the shape of the front tire. He said it was purposefully pointed to dive in more because of the construction of the rear tire which tended to be harder to turn in. He recommended experimenting with air pressure on a rider by rider basis. What I got out of all of this is that it is neither a manufacturing problem nor a suspension problem. It is mainly a setup problem that is exacerbated by the rider themselves and the steering head bearings.

OK, I can buy this reasoning also, but what are you inferring 'set up problem' to mean?

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

was that case me? If not, 2

Your issue is not enough weight on the front end, hence the skidishness. I witnessed no wobble on my short ride.

You didn't get to ride on the tire that was replaced under warranty.

 

[Geezer]

I guess I'm in the middle of the road on the Storm issue. My front tire wobbles, particularly during deceleration. I aired both tires up to 42 and found the wobble to be eased to the point where I am comfortable and the way the tires stick to the road adds a lot to the plus side of the equation.

 

[sprint_st]

OK, I can buy this reasoning also, but what are you inferring 'set up problem' to mean?

What I mean by "set up" problem is that the Storm seems to be much more sensitive to balance and pressure than most. This has been the topic of several threads as well. Avon doesn't have a red dot for a balance point for whatever reason. Keith Ost recommends you balance your rim marking the heavy spot. Then you put on the tire and if the weight exceeds, I don't remember the exact amount, to rotate the tire on the rim to put the heavy wheel spot opposite to the heavy tire spot. When mounting mine the weight started to climb, so I broke the bead and did the rotation stuff which significantly dropped the amount needed. Once you have that done, your not done. You should play with the air pressure to what works for you. Keith talked about that reactive footprint technology requiring a front tire designed to work in conjunction with it. What that really means is that the front is real pointy and you have to play with air pressure to get it where you like it. To make a long story even longer, too many of us trust someone to put the tire on and we assume it was done right. This tire just isn't one that can be slammed on and you ride into the sunset.

 

[warsw]

My Storms ran really good for the first 2000 miles and I was more than pleased. I have always run 40psi in the front. The front tire started to develop a low speed thump and wobble shortly after the 2K mark. Now, with 4000 miles on the tire you can see the distortion and the strange wear pattern. The wobble and thump is definitely from the front tire, not the steering head bearings or suspension. Plan and simple "bad tire".

 

[twowheelnut]

My Storms ran really good for the first 2000 miles and I was more than pleased. I have always run 40psi in the front. The front tire started to develop a low speed thump and wobble shortly after the 2K mark. Now, with 4000 miles on the tire you can see the distortion and the strange wear pattern. The wobble and thump is definitely from the front tire, not the steering head bearings or suspension. Plan and simple "bad tire".

Piccie please...