Cautionary Tales about Seth Laam!

[ionbeam]

I just pulled in the front driveway and saw the Big Brown Toy Truck pulled up to our back driveway! Oh boy! Streak into the house and see two boxes, one little 'un and a big 'un! Oh Boy! Little one has the expected electronics... On to the big 'un! Slash & rip like a 4 year old at Christmas -- and there IT is -- pillion's new riding cloths. No third box? Nothing else from USPS? Seen FedEx? Pillion asked UPS to be sure there wasn't another box for this address. Nuttin.

The sun will come out tomorrow
So you gotta hang on
'til tomorrow, come what may!
Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow
You're always a day away!

When I'm stuck with a day that's grey and lonely
I just stick up my chin and grin and say oh

The sun will come out tomorrow
So you got to hang on 'til tomorrow, come what may!
Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow
You're always a day away

 

[wheatonFJR]

FOCK!

 

[Geezer]

Well, I hope your seat arrives soon, but even more, I hope Mrs. Beam is called back to work or finds new employment soon.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I'd send you mine if it could get there in time. Brand new.

 

[Bugnatr]

This sucks Allen

Make a promise and deliver. Doesn't look like Seth will get that simple business rule figured out.

Geez, if I were looking for a business to get into custom motorcycle seats may be the way to go ....or not.

 

[dcarver]

That aint good.

 

[mikerider]

Vote with your money...

 

[Hammer Down Brown]

My experience with Seth was great. He had my seats about three weeks and I got them back in early August of this year. He called me for the consult and at that time I asked when he wanted me to pay him. He said he would call me after I got my seats back and determined I was happy. I got the seats and they make the bike a completely different ride.

Seth called me about ten days after I received them and I gave him my credit card number. If something happened to my seats, I would not go shopping. I have Seth's business and mobile numbers in my phone and that's the call I would make.

 

[El Toro]

It sounds like he just randomly picks them out of the pile, and when your number's up, your numbers up.

Maybe he's like UPS. Once you've waited for two months for your seat, you're already P'd off, and rather than make other people unhappy too, you just stay at the bottom of the pile until he gets a round to it.

And what could possibly make his seat better than someone else? I remember the Rick and Rocky battles, and the arguments about what makes a seat work or not work. I wish ol' Bill were still alive. He'd have probably sold there more seat companies to real businessmen, and there's be a plethora of Russell Day Long style seat suppliers out there (not using the Russell model that Bill sold to Russell, but different models that Bill could have invented himself had he lived). Too bad Bill wasn't better at transferring good business skills to those boys.

Bill knew what he was doing on seats though. The chain of guys who have owned the Russell Day Long company have always known what they were doing. The knowledge transfer from Bill on down has worked. And you don't see 20 guys leaving Russell and starting their own seat companies using the Russell model, so maybe RDL requires a noncompete agreement to teach you how to make their seats. I've never seen anyone dissatisfied with either Russell's quality, Russell's performance, or Russell's original purchaser customer service. Sometimes you hear stories about people who are angry with Russell because of the cost to rework a seat for a new rider.

I dunno.... but defending Seth Laam reminds me of the people who did not get food poisoning at Chipotle explaining to the rest of the people that their experience was good and they'll go again. Anyone want to buy some Seth Laam gift certificates?

 

[Bounce]

I'd send you mine if it could get there in time. Brand new.

Still not a custom seat, though. Custom for you, but not for him. He could go buy an different off-the-shelf seat from any of many sources; like Corbin.

 

[ionbeam]

^^^^ I do appreciate the offer, lots of good peeps here. In all honesty, a custom seat not made for me specifically is still probably better than the stock seat for >8 hr days for the 3k miles we will be traveling. I wouldn't buy someone else's custom seat for the long haul though, unless they are shaped and sized like me (Neanderthal, XL).

From the first contact with Laam until today I have approached the seat order neutrally, as if I hadn't heard that there were some 'glitches' in responsiveness, customer service and late seat deliveries. I have protected myself as best I can by getting specific times, dates and expectations spelled in writing between us. I'm giving Laam every opportunity to do their job and meet their commitments. I will compose a letter to them with some suggestions as to how to make their customer experience better and it is necessary for them to do this to even maintain the business they have today. I'm sure I'm not the first customer to offer the suggestions they will receive. It's unfortunate that the first real seat test we can do will be when we leave on Tue morning for EOM, unless the heavy rain holds off over the weekend.

 

[RossKean]

In the meantime, you can bungee a 2 x 6 to your current seat and enjoy at least a slight improvement. Watch out for splinters.

 

[bergmen]

I'll take a different view and look at things from Seth's perspective for a minute (having been there and watched him work and have some exposure to his operation).

He is the only person that builds the seat. Each one takes about 3 hours to do. Seth takes no breaks and works as fast as I can imagine anyone can without errors or reworks. It makes me tired just watching him go like heck. He works more than eight hours a day and 6-7 days a week.

He has an assistant that finishes up the seats after the major build and cleans and trims, packages and makes ready to ship. He has on offsite assistant (Kaarin) that attempts to orchestrate logistics, but does so in average fashion. This is an issue with the business, Seth is objective about it but has no time or resources to improve this. He makes some efforts after hours but cannot contact anyone during the build days, no time to do this.

He is flat overwhelmed with orders from all over the world. There are hitches and delays that complicate the flow of things (parts on back order, changes to the seat order in the middle of construction, customer service responsibilities, dealing with difficult customers, etc, etc.). This work load typically requires a small, very efficient and capable staff to manage the business but that is not the case here. Priority management is extremely complicated under the circumstances even under the best of conditions.

I'm not suggesting sympathy for Seth as much as I am hoping for understanding of the situation. I can certainly empathize with the frustration being expressed here. In my case I arranged my schedule to meet his. His is not the type of business model that is best equipped to handle requirements to a customer's schedule although he tries mightily to do so.

Just my perspective.

Dan

 

[wheatonFJR]

I get the craftsmanship part of it...

...but that has nothing to do with what you promise. Be a man of your word.

If you can't do something, don't promise it will be done by such and such.

I love my LAAM seat, don't get me wrong. I didn't have a hard and fast deadline when mine was built.

I just hate when my friends get shorted because someone specifically promises they can have it done by a certain time...then doesn't...and doesn't communicate.

 

[El Toro]

The whole idea that Laam won't teach others to build a seat because he is afraid they'll take the skill and start their own company is another joke.

Anyone who has the mental accuity to be taught to build a seat and who also has the business sense to plan production and logistics is going to be smart enough to buy or otherwise find a Laam seat, take it apart, and figure it out. It's not like you have to have a nuclear collider to figure out what's inside.

Getting stuff in writing does nothing either. For some people, a written agreement is gold. For others, it's just something else to be ignored. If this were not the case, 75% of the lawyers would be starving.

The first time I realized that "having it in writing" is often worthless was when I was dealing with a guy whose perspective was "Things change." If a written agreement is going to be honored, then it's probably not necessary to have one.

If it's not going to be honored, why bother? And if it's not going to be honored, and there are no clear consequences that anyone would care about, then you have to ask yourself that question again. Why bother?

Laam is problematic. You will probably get a seat. It will probably be a good seat. It might come in three weeks. It might come in three months. It might come in three quarters of a year. And it will be at low cost compared to people who actually have customer focused business models.

I am reminded of the plaque in the shop.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two. Sigh...

I am just angry on behalf of Ionbeam. He does not seemed angry enough, so I'm taking on his burden and providing anger . It's Cheap and Fast, but probablly not Good.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

I'll take a different view and look at things from Seth's perspective for a minute (having been there and watched him work and have some exposure to his operation).
He is the only person that builds the seat. Each one takes about 3 hours to do. Seth takes no breaks and works as fast as I can imagine anyone can without errors or reworks. It makes me tired just watching him go like heck. He works more than eight hours a day and 6-7 days a week.

He has an assistant that finishes up the seats after the major build and cleans and trims, packages and makes ready to ship. He has on offsite assistant (Kaarin) that attempts to orchestrate logistics, but does so in average fashion. This is an issue with the business, Seth is objective about it but has no time or resources to improve this. He makes some efforts after hours but cannot contact anyone during the build days, no time to do this.

He is flat overwhelmed with orders from all over the world. There are hitches and delays that complicate the flow of things (parts on back order, changes to the seat order in the middle of construction, customer service responsibilities, dealing with difficult customers, etc, etc.). This work load typically requires a small, very efficient and capable staff to manage the business but that is not the case here. Priority management is extremely complicated under the circumstances even under the best of conditions.

I'm not suggesting sympathy for Seth as much as I am hoping for understanding of the situation. I can certainly empathize with the frustration being expressed here. In my case I arranged my schedule to meet his. His is not the type of business model that is best equipped to handle requirements to a customer's schedule although he tries mightily to do so.

Just my perspective.

Dan

Maybe he should take less orders to match his capacity - Russell will flat out tell you that your seat will take 3-6 months and if you cannot live with that, will tell you to go elsewhere

Saying he is busy with orders from all over the world doesn't excuse not delivering when he promised in my book.

 

[ionbeam]

So far I'm not hurt. That could change in 3-4 hrs.

I'm not the OP in the Cautionary Tail, I'm just another adventurer that is posting in a topic already open on this topic. I will follow up with a review of my experience and results when there are results.

If nothing is in writing, nothing was ever said. There should be no confusion, mistaken hearing or failure to recall when there is a written paper trail. It may not change the outcome but it will sure improve the odds of success.

Russell told me they were busy. I went someplace else. The someplace comes with a pretty good reputation for near Russell satisfaction for the seats and a nightmare reputation for not providing the seats anyplace near a scheduled date on some orders, others are right on schedule. I hope that personal conversations on the phone backed up with emails that document the phone discussions will help. Based on my job, I find that when you actually talk to people they are a lot less likely to lie to you or try to deceive you. Less likely, not never

 

[bergmen]

I get the craftsmanship part of it......but that has nothing to do with what you promise. Be a man of your word.

If you can't do something, don't promise it will be done by such and such.

I love my LAAM seat, don't get me wrong. I didn't have a hard and fast deadline when mine was built.

I just hate when my friends get shorted because someone specifically promises they can have it done by a certain time...then doesn't...and doesn't communicate.

Very good point and I agree with it completely. A committed goal must be kept or otherwise do not commit.

Dan

 

[bergmen]

Maybe he should take less orders to match his capacity - Russell will flat out tell you that your seat will take 3-6 months and if you cannot live with that, will tell you to go elsewhere
Saying he is busy with orders from all over the world doesn't excuse not delivering when he promised in my book.

Yes, agree completely.

Dan

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Offer still stands. If you figure out how to get it from Georgia to you, it's a free loan until you're done with it. I'll pay shipping to you to compensate you for breaking them in.