Cautionary Tales about Seth Laam!

[El Toro]

If nothing is in writing, nothing was ever said. There should be no confusion, mistaken hearing or failure to recall when there is a written paper trail. It may not change the outcome but it will sure improve the odds of success.
Russell told me they were busy. I went someplace else. The someplace comes with a pretty good reputation for near Russell satisfaction for the seats and a nightmare reputation for not providing the seats anyplace near a scheduled date on some orders, others are right on schedule. I hope that personal conversations on the phone backed up with emails that document the phone discussions will help. Based on my job, I find that when you actually talk to people they are a lot less likely to lie to you or try to deceive you. Less likely, not never

Well, another one of those lessons.

I don't think Laam thinks they are deceiving you. They believe what they tell you when they tell it to you.

You'll notice that these days they're not telling you anything .... so they're not lying or deceiving. They're just not honoring their commitment. And this is because "Things Change."

Contracts and agreements only have teeth to the extent that there is pain associated with not meeting your end of the deal.

Seth appears to be careful to not take money until the deal is finished, so that will generally keep him out of small claims court.

Small claims court in northern California is an unlikely destination anyway. Customers are "from all over the world." It's not worth it to go look him up, and even if you did, all you'd be doing is delaying someone else's seat.

If you want a written agreement to be honored, there have to be penalties and in the Laam seat case, there really aren't any, other than that you will take your business elsewhere. That's a good one to remember.

What I can't get over is that this is sort of like the old adage that "any publicity is good publicity ... just spell the name right."

I'll bet Seth has gotten 20 additional orders off of this thread .

 

[Bounce]

Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two. Sigh...

The 3-legged stool of project management.

Time

Cost

Quality

If you decrease time, you increase cost or decrease quality to compensate. If you decrease cost (or keep it lower than the competition) then you have to increase (delivery) time if you want to maintain quality. It's the nature of all projects.

So, if you're picking Laam because he's cheap and of high quality, then (delivery) time can't be critical.

If delivery time and quality are critical, then you have to go to someone else who charges more (to pay for a larger staff).

 

[ionbeam]

The day is done. The package hasn't arrived. Laam doesn't answer the phone and hasn't replied to my messages.

This is becoming another cautionary tale

 

[El Toro]

I am really feeling your pain.

I wish I could do something that would help. Sorry for being a post whore on this thread lately.

It just really makes me angry when a vendor doesn't do what they say they'll do ... and then it makes me even angrier when people chime in and support the SOB.

Sigh...

 

[TomInPA]

Rick Meyer followed this same path, and Seth knows it because they worked together. I hope he sees the value in bringing in strategic employees so he can avoid this. Rick went to the dark-side of outright theft and failure to deliver at all. I don't see that happening here.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Making a product people like and having a FUBAR schedule is one thing. Promising someone they will have that product by a certain date is a whole different deal. I have NO sympathy for the business owner. He knows his schedule and his abilities. If he can't meet a deadline, he has to say so. If he promises to meet a deadline, he absolutely has to stand by that promise.

I grew up in my dad's machine shop. Deadlines were NOT missed, and he was known from his work. So much so that government purchasers sought him out. Don't **** over customers. This rule #1.

Still hoping Alan gets his seats on time, or is that day past??

 

[Fred W]

We don't leave until Tuesday AM. Saturday delivery is possible as is Monday.

Otherwise, it's a very good thing that we will be stopping every 2 hours on the way down (for the ladies' bladders) as the 'beam butts will need the breaks too.

Alan, I happen to know a guy with a really ugly, 2015 matching, assfault gray, faux sheepskin who would let you have it free if it is of any use.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Hey, I haven't been to this thread for a while. Just catching up. I will gladly volunteer my RDL seats for the trip if Allen is interested. I have a second set I can use in the meantime. PM me if interested. I believe my Gen2 seats will fit his Gen3. Hell they will even match his color.

Dave

 

[Fred W]

Very nice offer, Dave!

I guess this means that your back is not feeling up to the challenge this year?

 

[08FJR4ME]

Taking a pass on EOM this year. You are correct, I have another doctors appointment on Monday. I have a herniated disc, L4-5 I had my MRI last week and there isn't any fluid in that disc. The rest seem to look O.K. for now. It seemed to be getting better the last few days. Today I split 3/4 of a cord of wood and stacked it. Now I am paying the price. I couldn't sit around and watch movies any longer. Shit needs to get done around the house. Motrin is my best friend lately. If Allen wants to borrow the seats that's fine with me. They are comfy.

Dave

 

[dcarver]

Very nice offer, Dave.

 

[FJReady]

Great offer Dave! Hope the 'beams can take advantage of your generosity.

 

[ionbeam]

Thanks for everyone's offers. It's really too late in the game for us to be able to accept any of the offers. We really do appreciate everyone's willingness to help us out!

I was originally told by Kaarin that she would do what ever it took to get us our seats by 9/12. Then Kaarin said last Monday (9/12) adn said they would be shipping the seat 3rd day at their expense to arrive no later than the end of last week. Late Wed evening (9/14) Seth called and and left a message asking for information that sounded like a request for build info, like the seat hadn't started the build yet. I called both Seth's cell phone and the business phone. I got no answer from Thru through Sun. There was no response to my messages. There was no email like I requested. Today, one day before we leave I'm waiting for the sun to rise on Redding Ca and will try to call one more time to see what the status of the seat really is. Mostly because I no longer want the seat shipped until we get back from EOM so a big box won't sit on our front steps for a couple of weeks. As if the seat would actually be done anyway. This pessimist still holds out optimism that today Kaarin will tell me that the seat is out for delivery today. Ya, sure....

After today it really doesn't matter a whole lot if the seat is delivered between 10/1/16 and 4/1/17 other than to just get the damn thing while yet another set of seat pans go to Russell. Even with Russell's months long wait list the Russell seat may arrive before the Laam seat in spite of Laam accepting my order in July and getting my seat pans in early August.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Thanks for everyone's offers. It's really too late in the game for us to be able to accept any of the offers. We really do appreciate everyone's willingness to help us out!
I was originally told by Kaarin that she would do what ever it took to get us our seats by 9/12. Then Kaarin said last Monday (9/12) adn said they would be shipping the seat 3rd day at their expense to arrive no later than the end of last week. Late Wed evening (9/14) Seth called and and left a message asking for information that sounded like a request for build info, like the seat hadn't started the build yet. I called both Seth's cell phone and the business phone. I got no answer from Thru through Sun. There was no response to my messages. There was no email like I requested. Today, one day before we leave I'm waiting for the sun to rise on Redding Ca and will try to call one more time to see what the status of the seat really is. Mostly because I no longer want the seat shipped until we get back from EOM so a big box won't sit on our front steps for a couple of weeks. As if the seat would actually be done anyway. This pessimist still holds out optimism that today Kaarin will tell me that the seat is out for delivery today. Ya, sure....

After today it really doesn't matter a whole lot if the seat is delivered between 10/1/16 and 4/1/17 other than to just get the damn thing while yet another set of seat pans go to Russell. Even with Russell's months long wait list the Russell seat may arrive before the Laam seat in spite of Laam accepting my order in July and getting my seat pans in early August.

Man, did he screw the pooch, or what!

Sorry this happened to you Alan. FOCK!

 

[Burnspot]

After today it really doesn't matter a whole lot if the seat is delivered between 10/1/16 and 4/1/17 other than to just get the damn thing while yet another set of seat pans go to Russell. Even with Russell's months long wait list the Russell seat may arrive before the Laam seat in spite of Laam accepting my order in July and getting my seat pans in early August.

Sorry about the pain with the LAAM; I had good luck with him a couple years ago.

Regarding the Russell; I sent in an order last Monday...my build date is October 17th, so the wait is not all that long (I had figured a few months too).

 

[Solomookie]

I was originally told by Kaarin that she would do what ever it took to get us our seats by 9/12.

Even with Russell's months long wait list the Russell seat may arrive before the Laam seat in spite of Laam accepting my order in July and getting my seat pans in early August.

Wow. I did not need to hear this today. My wife is having serious health issues, and I have been spending a lot of time in the hospital every day. Looking forward to getting my seat back for some wind therapy has helped keep me sane. Kaarin has promised me my seat by this Friday. But judging from this string, my odds are not good.

In the past, three things have been constants: 1) Seth Laam makes a very comfortable seat 2) He is lousy at communication, and 3) he struggles to make ship dates. Number 1 is still true. For number 2, he hired Kaarin, and at least communications do get responses (although their accuracy can be called into question). Unfortunately, it appears that number 3 is still a major issue. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Like others have mentioned, why even say you have a "production schedule" if that schedule is entirely fluid? It puts me in mind of a Seinfeld episode, where a rental car company did not have the car that Jerry reserved. The conversation went like this:

Representative: Sir, we know how to do reservations.

Jerry: No, you know how to take reservations; you just don't know how to keep reservations!

 

[ionbeam]

Regarding the Russell; I sent in an order last Monday...my build date is October 17th, so the wait is not all that long (I had figured a few months too).

In June Russell told me October or November. It sounds like they got things under control since June. After EOM I'll be shopping for yet another set of Gen II seat pans for a Russell winter build because this is what I really wanted all along.

Kaarin has promised me my seat by this Friday. But judging from this string, my odds are not good...1) Seth Laam makes a very comfortable seat...3) he struggles to make ship dates

Best of luck getting your seat this Friday! I'd like someone to get their seats on schedule. Wish your wife well from the 'beams, sick sucks. Hope she gets better! Daily visits to a hospital is a sign of Bad Things and tough treatments.

I went into this knowing that Seth can't schedule (he's not bad at it, he simply can't do it at all) but he was one of the best alternatives to Russell for seat comfort. If there was anyway that Russell could have met a delivery date before EOM I would have done that for sure. Russell made it clear I couldn't expect a seat by September, and Laam said no problem, and Kaarin said she would personally shepherd the process to ensure it would happen without fail by 9/12. Kaarin has 7 hrs to make good via UPS or 2 hrs to make good via USPS which she said they would use. Mail comes to my house in 2 hrs and UPS doesn't deliver to our house past 5:00 (Easter DST). Tick, tick, tick.

30 minutes until Laam's phone starts ringing..... Will'e pickup? Will she pickup? Will I get email like I requested? It's always an adventure

 

[mikerider]

I wish you the best. I had the exact experience as yours when I had mine built by Seth. I was so frustrated that I told him to send my seat back without building it and I'd pay for the return shipping. As soon as he got my message, he called me and said he would start building. Eventually I got it, but it shouldn't be this hard.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I want to hear good news. Fingers crossed. If it doesn't show in time, I'd refuse delivery, pan-be-damned, and get a Russell. But my patience has been used up on other projects this year.... You are calling the number that ends in 43, correct?

 

[ionbeam]

I just talked with Seth. He hasn't started building the seats. He says he called me last Monday through Wednesday and I didn't return his calls. The call log on my phone disagrees. Kaarin told me the seats were shipping on last Monday via USPS 3 day. Seth says he called me on Monday and left me a message that he will start the seats as soon as we talk about the build, no mention that I had called THEM on Monday. My call log only shows my call TO Kaarin on Monday and since she said she was shipping our seats I didn't expect to hear from Laam again. I did leave messages on Thursday and left a request to email me so we could be sure I didn't miss a message. No reply to my phone messages and no email from Laam. As mentioned previously, no response to my calls on Thursday through Sunday either.

Seth is pissed at me because it's my fault for not replying to his phone message which I didn't get and now I've got an atti-tude. I did say that I didn't really give a shit when he does the seats now because I needed them starting tomorrow. Amidst an increasingly hysterical conversation from Redding, Seth now says that if I have an address someplace along the way he will ship the seats to me to a hotel or wherever I'm staying. I'll be at EOM two nights, every other stay will be one night and there are no plans as to where we may end up for the night.

If I tell Seth to build the seats and ship to EOM for Friday or Saturday, what are the odds the seat will arrive at the hotel while I'm actually staying there? If he builds on Tuesday and ships 3 day on Wednesday that would give him precisely one target day to get the seat to me. You've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

Edit: Yes the phone number being called ends in 43. Seth made sure that was the number I had and used.