Cautionary Tales about Seth Laam!

[TomInPA]

I can feel Seth's pain. He waits to deliver at the last possible second, misses the deadline and yet is totally vested in his work.

Sole proprietor. My life. If only I had the ability to apply these lessons to the last 20 years of my own business.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Wow. Glad you got the seats. Kudos to you for not telling the guy to suck it. Mine are nice. I put the Yamaha Comfort seats back on for my last dealer work to avoid the chance of damage to my new Laam. I really don't find much difference in comfort between the two, both being light years ahead of the stock seat. But more miles may yield different results.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

So? How was the ride back home on the new seats?

 

[ionbeam]

So? How was the ride back home on the new seats?

No ride back yet. We arrived in Knoxville late yesterday afternoon. We put the seats on ~8:00 pm and rode 1.2 miles from my mom's place to a hotel. We will be leaving on Tuesday, more or less, and wandering back home over the next few days.

The seats were great for the 1.2 miles. No discomfort, seemed to fit us well and didn't get hot under us.

 

[RossKean]

So? How was the ride back home on the new seats?

No ride back yet. We arrived in Knoxville late yesterday afternoon. We put the seats on ~8:00 pm and rode 1.2 miles from my mom's place to a hotel. We will be leaving on Tuesday, more or less, and wandering back home over the next few days.

The seats were great for the 1.2 miles. No discomfort, seemed to fit us well and didn't get hot under us.

So I hope they are still good after you repeat the initial test run another 1000 times or so until you get home.

 

[Solomookie]

So? How was the ride back home on the new seats?

No ride back yet. We arrived in Knoxville late yesterday afternoon. We put the seats on ~8:00 pm and rode 1.2 miles from my mom's place to a hotel. We will be leaving on Tuesday, more or less, and wandering back home over the next few days.

The seats were great for the 1.2 miles. No discomfort, seemed to fit us well and didn't get hot under us.

So I hope they are still good after you repeat the initial test run another 1000 times or so until you get home.

I'm betting they will be. I remember my first time I sat on my Laam. It was for my '98 C-10. I remember expecting an "angels singing hallelujah in the background" moment. It was nothing like that. In fact, my first thought was that it felt hard. Then, I took it out for a 2 hour ride, and when I got back, my butt felt the same as it did before I left. That was when I knew I had a winner.

That is why I got my place in the production schedule for one for my FJR within 2 weeks of having purchased the bike. It's on its way to me now; and I fully expect the same result.

 

[wheatonFJR]

We received the Laam seats today in Knoxville! The seats were drop-shipped to my mothers residence. We have them on the bike, it was a tight fit but they are on. The build quality looks good. We have ridden on the seats for 1.2 miles so the final evaluation isn't quite done yet.
Sordid details below, read only if bored out of your mind

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We left home on the stock seats which work well for some people, I'm not one of them. The whining and crying from the driver about the stock seat was awful. The candy-ass wimp massively interrupted the flow of the ride from NH to VA with lots of butt-breaks and messed up the ride for everyone else with us.

I had a message on my cell phone from Seth that the seats were done Thursday of last week so I called him back before noon Redding time. There was an issue with the post office not recognizing my mother's address. Seth had a melt-down over it because I couldn't solve the issue while standing on the road side in the middle of a ride. Hysterics and accusations flew from the other end of the phone. He told me he was going to explain the problem to be 6 times so I would understand what he was saying, and then proceeded to do just that, repeating exactly the same statement 6 times. I finally handed the phone to Good Pillion to deal with the screams and tears coming from Redding. He hung up on her before she had a chance to explain how to resolve the problem.

That afternoon I got a message from USPS showing that the seats were shipping second day -- to our house in New Hampshire. While I was out drinking hard and telling tales visiting with the EOM crowd unbeknown to me Good Pillion called Seth and told him the seats were going to the wrong address. Seth says it was the fault of the incompetent shipper (who would that be?

). She wasn't sure if he had time to correct the shipping address so she didn't mention the call to me. It looks like the call that Good Pillion made did the trick. I'll keep 'er

The promised return shipping label to return the stock seats to NH wasn't in the seat box, but at this point I really don't care a lot.

It will probably be Tuesday or Wednesday before the seats get the first real day long use. We are looking forward to the real objective of this whole debacle to prove it was worth it. The ride back to NH is beginning to show hope of being much more pleasurable than the ride down.

Thanks for sharing. You and Helen deserved better, but that goes without saying. Glad Helen's voodoo on the Seth doll got the seats shipped to Knoxville...

Hope the weather cooperates for your trip back to the Nort'east.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I hope they are better for you than stock. It would be refreshing to read something positive in this thread.

 

[SacramentoMike]

To me, a lot has happened since this thread was born--and it's about to celebrate it's first birthday. First, I replaced my '05 (with a Bill Mayer custom saddle) with a nice red Gen 3--with the stock seat. I've had two Gen 1s, but this was my first time with a stock FJR seat.

Well, this one gave me a pain in the a$$--literally--so when I got back from Red Lodge, and after trying a Laam saddle on the way out, I was sold, and arranged for a ride-in in time for NAFO just a few weeks after Red Lodge. Doubt was expressed that I could get a custom saddle made in that short time, but Seth agreed to do it on short notice; I rode to Redding, had it done, and returned all in the same day, the very week after talking to him. I'm very satisfied with the saddle, as I've said elsewhere.

But here's the thing: he did two saddles the day I was there, both ride-ins, and two seats a day is his limit, whether they come by mail or in person. So none of the seats stacked under his work bench moved up in the queue that day. It was really great for me to get this done that way, but I did feel a little sense of guilt about "jumping the line" like that. Maybe Ionbeam's seat, and even the OP's were under that bench.

I don't know what the best answer is for Seth. If two a day is the limit, then it's the limit. It takes time. And maybe he prefers ride-ins--he gets timely and direct feedback on fit, fabric, and color. There's no packing and shipping. He's paid immediately. And I guess he may like the flexibility of being able to take care of people directly. And of course he has no way of knowing how many calls for ride-ins he'll be getting. If he wants to offer that service, then this is going to happen. On the other hand, after going through this thread, I think I understand now why Russell charges extra for a ride-in appointment. I think it's reasonable that you have to pay extra to bypass the line of customers who've already sent in their seats and are waiting.

So it's his choice, but if you want a Laam seat and can't do a ride-in yourself, you need to know: you could be bumped like that. You could get bumped quite a lot, I suppose, depending on his ride-in volume. I guess I'd say if you want a seat from Seth, understand it will take time, and he can't promise a specific date too easily. I think he'll try. From what I saw and the impression I got of him, he's conscientious and hard-working But you'd better have another seat to use while you wait, and expect to have to be patient.

 

[art miller]

To me, a lot has happened since this thread was born--and it's about to celebrate it's first birthday. First, I replaced my '05 (with a Bill Mayer custom saddle) with a nice red Gen 3--with the stock seat. I've had two Gen 1s, but this was my first time with a stock FJR seat.
Well, this one gave me a pain in the a$$--literally--so when I got back from Red Lodge, and after trying a Laam saddle on the way out, I was sold, and arranged for a ride-in in time for NAFO just a few weeks after Red Lodge. Doubt was expressed that I could get a custom saddle made in that short time, but Seth agreed to do it on short notice; I rode to Redding, had it done, and returned all in the same day, the very week after talking to him. I'm very satisfied with the saddle, as I've said elsewhere.

But here's the thing: he did two saddles the day I was there, both ride-ins, and two seats a day is his limit, whether they come by mail or in person. So none of the seats stacked under his work bench moved up in the queue that day. It was really great for me to get this done that way, but I did feel a little sense of guilt about "jumping the line" like that. Maybe Ionbeam's seat, and even the OP's were under that bench.

I don't know what the best answer is for Seth. If two a day is the limit, then it's the limit. It takes time. And maybe he prefers ride-ins--he gets timely and direct feedback on fit, fabric, and color. There's no packing and shipping. He's paid immediately. And I guess he may like the flexibility of being able to take care of people directly. And of course he has no way of knowing how many calls for ride-ins he'll be getting. If he wants to offer that service, then this is going to happen. On the other hand, after going through this thread, I think I understand now why Russell charges extra for a ride-in appointment. I think it's reasonable that you have to pay extra to bypass the line of customers who've already sent in their seats and are waiting.

So it's his choice, but if you want a Laam seat and can't do a ride-in yourself, you need to know: you could be bumped like that. You could get bumped quite a lot, I suppose, depending on his ride-in volume. I guess I'd say if you want a seat from Seth, understand it will take time, and he can't promise a specific date too easily. I think he'll try. From what I saw and the impression I got of him, he's conscientious and hard-working But you'd better have another seat to use while you wait, and expect to have to be patient.

^^^^+1 I think you have pretty much summed up the situation. I was going to do a ride-in but got lucky and bought a Laam from HotRodZilla. I am using the stock passenger seat as i never ride two-up. The Laam does not marry up with the passenger seat very well. If you are using the same configuration, do you find this as well???

 

[wheatonFJR]

I see what yer saying Mike...and I DO like my LAAM seat.

However, if someone has a deadline issue...needs it by a SPECIFIC time because they are GOING ON A TRIP or something, then you better be a man of your word. Period.

If you CAN'T by the nature of your work provide a product by a hard and fast deadline in that instance, you HAVE to say, "I would love to be able to promise you that, but I can't"...and let the chips fall where they may.

Again, I think the product is good...but what Seth did to Alan and Helen is not good. Period.

 

[El Toro]

I don't think a ride in is the answer. There are reports that his calendar is "unreliable" enough that you might show up and be greeted with something to the effect of "Who the hell are you?"

The solution to Laam is to forget about him.

But if you can't ... then the solution is to order seats, forget about the seats, and when/if they come, you'll be surprised at the least, and possibly even happy.

 

[Fontanaman]

A coworker recently (August 2016) upgraded his seat from FJR stock to a Laam via the mail. He was completely satisfied with the amount of communication and timeliness to return the new seat (about 3 week I believe).

So there is some positive feedback on the Laam seats.

Your experience may vary.

 

[bigjohnsd]

N E P R T !!!!!

 

[Bounce]

Is is definitely heading into the NE part of NE,P,(and/or)RT

 

[Solomookie]

Another thumbs up for Seth. My seat arrived today. Looks great, fits fine. Of course, it showed up on the wettest day we've had in weeks, so I just sat on it with the bike up on the centerstand in my leaky shed. But it feels right, and I'm looking forward to getting out as soon as the rain stops.

 

[Bounce]

Meanwhile... FIX THAT LEAK! Your FJR deserves better.

 

[Solomookie]

Meanwhile... FIX THAT LEAK! Your FJR deserves better.

My FJR and two C-10's; and you're right... they all deserve better. But like Clint said, "Deserve ain't got nothin' to do with it". Short of a total rebuild, the leaks (plural) are impossible to stop. However, I did spring for waterproof covers for all three. Of course, that doesn't help when I'm sitting there on my new Laam seat waiting for the rain to stop.

 

[Bounce]

There's always the living room (at least for the FJR)...

 

[ionbeam]

In keeping with the OP's post, the following is my Cautionary Tale About Seth Laam.

• I called Russell in June asking if they could have seats built for us by mid September. Russell countered with "perhaps late October or probably November". Nope, not good, thanks for the honest reply. Plan B. Knowing about the hit or miss customer service(?) from Laam I decided to dance with the devil. There have been very few complaints about the comfort of the seats he makes, just some occasional really3 bad service. Before diving in with money and an order form I called and talked with Laam Seats.

• After assurances that there would be no problem making seats for us, to be delivered a couple of weeks before we were to leave for EOM I sent in our order form. Over the phone Kaarin said she would personally follow our order and do what ever it takes to see we get our seats on time, well before we leave for our trip.

• There was no acknowledgement of the order, I had to write to Laam for confirm they received the order. Kaarin replied: "I have received your order form. I have your seat scheduled to begin production during the week of August 22nd. Please ship your seats to arrive in our shop as close to this date as possible. Seth will call you personally to discuss your specific needs for your seat. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to call or email anytime. We appreciate your business!
  

Please Note:
If you are preparing for a particular ride that is already scheduled, please let us know and we will do everything in our power to ensure that you have your new custom seat in time for your ride. Also, if limiting downtime is specifically critical for you, please send us an email or phone call to see if we are on schedule before you send your seat. We don't want your seat sitting here longer than necessary when you could be riding your motorcycle!" (In my order form I had given them information about EOM and the date when we needed the seats.)

• I sent this to Kaarin: I shipped my seats via USPS yesterday, scheduled delivery date is no later than 8/18/16. The seats in the box we shipped to you are spare seats, I have a set of OEM seats on my FJR1300 now.
  
  I'm leaving on 9/21 for a FJR event in Virginia and *really* need the seats back in time for this event.
  
  In my order form I mentioned that the rear passenger seat needs some special work if possible.
  
  And, one last thing, I used the shipping address you gave me below but my post office says that the Cedars Ave address doesn't exist and the USPS insisted that it should be Cedars Rd which is no place near Cedars Ave. (I took the post office advice and sent the seats to the address they suggested.)
  

• Kaarin replied to my email: "Thank you for the update. You will have your seats in time for your ride." I never got conformation that they received my seats.

• On 9/2/16 I wrote: "Just a quick check to see if my seats are still on schedule, your build date was scheduled for 8/22/16. In my original order I noted that on 9/21/16 we would be leaving for a motorcycle event, if the seats are delivered before 9/20/16 we would leave a day early and take more rural roads."

• Kaarin replied: "Yes, we are on schedule and you should receive your seat by the 16th or 17th."

• I called Kaarin and we discussed delivery dates. There was the promised dates of the 16th or 17th which I still expected them to meet and Kaarin didn't say there would be a problem meeting. We also discussed 'drop dead' dates, unsatisfactory dates but would still would have us on Laam seats when we leave for EOM.

• I called Kaarin on 9/12/16 and she said that the seats were shipping on this day and they were being sent 3 Day USPS and should arrive no later than 9/16/16. I got no shipping conformation or tracking number but given their track record of not providing acknowledgements or updates this wasn't alarming. I thought it strange that Seth hadn't called for seat details. Since we were told the seats were shipping and given a firm delivery date I didn't follow up. My bad.

• The seats didn't arrive. I called Friday, Saturday and Sunday and left messages asking for a callback and I also asked for email replies, no calls, no email.

• On Monday, 9/19/16 I got phone message from Seth during the day Eastern Time. When I got home from work on Monday I called Seth back. Seth said he was ready to start building the seats and needed information. For the first time I replied to him with a bit of an attitude and said that I didn't give a shit when he built the seats, I was leaving in the morning on stock seats because he didn't perform as promised. That caused hysterics from Seth. Someplace in the ranting and tears he said he was going to build the seats anyway. When he calmed down Helen and I attempted to give him answers to his seat build questions. Instead, we listened to Seth for 20 minutes without being able to provide any information and then he hung up.

• On Wednesday I got a message from Seth sometime during the day while we were on our ride to EOM. Seth said that the seats were done but he couldn't ship them because the USPS said the address I gave him was invalid. (See the text in red earlier in this post about Seth's shipping address.) I called him back from a gas station along the highway a few miles from the Skyline Drive in VA. I told him that this is the address that I have been using for years without issue. He said that the USPS gave him another possible address that sounded weird to me, but I couldn't confirm that it was correct because I had no resources to verify the address while standing along the side of the highway. Seth had a melt-down because I couldn't resolve the issue.

Hysterics and accusations flew from the other end of the phone. He told me he was going to explain the problem to be 6 times so I would understand what he was saying, and then proceeded to do just that, repeating exactly the same statement 6 times. I finally handed the phone to Good Pillion to deal with the screams and tears coming from Redding. He hung up on her before she had a chance to explain how to resolve the problem.

Someplace in the Seth rant he told me that this was all my fault because I was unresponsive to his phone messages and he listed the days he tried to contact me and offered to show me pictures of his phone log to prove his point. I checked my cell phone and home phone call logs and there were no messages from Seth. Maybe he called someone, but it wasn't me. I should have asked him for the log pictures but our ride buddies were waiting for me to get off the phone so we could continue our day's ride. It was interesting that I had called HIM on some of the days he claims to have called me; he never mentioned getting my calls or my messages.

• On Thursday morning, 9/22/16, our third day on the road I got a message from USPS showing that the seats were shipping second day -- to our house in New Hampshire. We broke off of the Blue Ridge Parkway ride with fellow NERDS to get to Wytheville early so we could work on the ongoing Laam mess. While I was out drinking hard and telling tales visiting with the EOM crowd unbeknown to me Good Pillion called Seth and left a message. Unbelievably, Seth called back and Helen told him the seats were going to the wrong address. Seth says it was the fault of the incompetent shipper (Who would that be?
  
  ). She wasn't sure if he had time to correct the shipping address so she didn't mention the call to me. It looks like the call that Good Pillion made did the trick. I'll keep 'er.

• When we got to Knoxville on Sunday 9/25/16 the seats were there, having arrived on Saturday afternoon. Seth did indeed ship second day with the corrected shipping address and got the seats posted to Knoxville as he said he would. The promised return label to ship the stock seats back to NH wasn't in the seat box, but at this point I really didn't care a lot, we had the seats. Barring any alterations I'm done with Seth.

• I wrote to Seth on Sunday 9/25/16 telling him we received the seats and thanking him for drop shipping the seats to Knoxville. Of course there has been no reply, a fitting ending to a Cautionary Tale
  

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Laam seat review:

Unfortunately, I can't yet provide a meaningful seat review. Since receiving the seats in Knoxville we have put 1,300 miles on them. At roughly 800 miles Pillion mentioned that her seat had started to relax and the seat edges were no longer causing discomfort on her legs. By the time we arrived home Pillion said the seat was comfortable in a neutral sort of way and she likes the seat which is real praise. This is in keeping with Seth's seats being reported as comfortable and why I chose to take the risk.

During the 1,600 miles to and during EOM the stock seat murdered the padding under my hips (muscle & skin). The stock seats would 'relax' and cause my bony hips to sit with almost no cushioning over the seat pan. This created two very sore spots which over prolonged contact time actually has done damage which needs to heal. By EOM I was unable to sit on any chair, couch or seat without pain. Even now at home I can't sit without pain.

The Laam seat is significantly better than the stock seat. It positions me well and still lets me mostly flatfoot with the suspension set for two up and with the suspension set for solo I can completely flatfoot under all conditions. These are things that Seth worked to achieve. My hips are so painful from the OEM seats that I can't fairly evaluate how comfortable the Laam seat is. On the way home from Knoxville I was able to ride 100 miles between stops but I had to stop and walk out the pain before we could continue. This is not a fault of the Laam seat, I still can't sit an hour in a chair or couch without having to standup and take a walk; in fact, I'm using our Airhawk whenever I sit, no matter what the chair or seat is. Hopefully I'll be able to appreciate the Laam seat this year before the snow flies. The seat shows good promise of being comfortable. It remains to be evaluated if it is Russell comfortable.

And that's all I have to say about that.