Cautionary Tales about Seth Laam!

[Bounce]

I sure wouldn't risk it.

Sure sounds like the wacky of the 2 Mayer brothers.

 

[Geezer]

A business like custom motorcycle seats is very dependent on word of mouth for their success. With the internet, that word of mouth is very fast and loud. A seat maker that makes promises and doesn't keep them is not going to be in business very long unless his product is the only one of it's kind. Based on Seth's response to Ionbeam about trying to get the seats to him along his route indicates that he understands that. I hope he is able to get his scheduling and 'promising' problems straightened out quickly. It is better to tell a customer that he can't deliver by a certain date than to miss the date and fail to deliver as promised.

 

[RossKean]

The best thing that could happen is for Seth to lose 20% of his business! Remaining customers would be much happier when they get their high-quality seat at the promised time. Might give Seth an opportunity to have a good look at the business and decide how to work smarter, not harder. As essentially a one-man-show, he will never get anything other than frustration and more work than he can do. He has to take the business to the next level with trained, competent staff and a professional outlook. The alternative is a failed business within a year or two at the most.

 

[MCRIDER007]

The best thing that could happen is for Seth to lose 20% of his business! Remaining customers would be much happier when they get their high-quality seat at the promised time. Might give Seth an opportunity to have a good look at the business and decide how to work smarter, not harder. As essentially a one-man-show, he will never get anything other than frustration and more work than he can do. He has to take the business to the next level with trained, competent staff and a professional outlook. The alternative is a failed business within a year or two at the most.

Good comments but I can't see the business actually failing as long he is making a quality seat at a reasonable price. The last time I talked to him, as he was about to make my 3rd seat, I suggested he raise his prices to reduce his backlog. He did raise prices but they were so low to begin with that it didn't help with the backlog. He needs to learn to just say "NO" when he can't meet a customers schedule and have a more realistic idea of how many seats he can deliver on a consistent basis.

 

[Fred W]

Making custom motorcycle seats is not art. It is a craft, in the same vein as custom work of most any kind.

There are lots of craftsmen in all lines of work that can't run a business or maintain schedules worth a damn.

There are literally dozens of "reality" TV shows that demonstrate this fact (OCC was one of the first) as the "craftsmen" are always behind schedule, always running in "crisis management" mode, and (in the fiction world of TV) always end up meeting the customer's demand in the end.

My folks were building a log cabin home in the woods of Maine a few decades ago, and they spent a great deal of time finding a local mason that did the best fieldstone fireplaces. They had a design for a magnificent fireplace for the center of their home, which would require the fireplace be built simultaneously to us raising the roof of the log cabin. The mason was a true craftsman, but like Seth he didn't cater to his customer's schedules, or make good on his prior commitments too well.

It was a bit dicey going through most of a Maine winter with a big hole in the roof covered by a blue tarp, but the job eventually was completed, and true to his calling, it was a magnificent centerpiece to the home.

Sometimes, getting good, custom made stuff just isn't all that easy.

 

[BigOgre]

The best thing that could happen is for Seth to lose 20% of his business! Remaining customers would be much happier when they get their high-quality seat at the promised time. Might give Seth an opportunity to have a good look at the business and decide how to work smarter, not harder. As essentially a one-man-show, he will never get anything other than frustration and more work than he can do. He has to take the business to the next level with trained, competent staff and a professional outlook. The alternative is a failed business within a year or two at the most.

Good comments but I can't see the business actually failing as long he is making a quality seat at a reasonable price. The last time I talked to him, as he was about to make my 3rd seat, I suggested he raise his prices to reduce his backlog. He did raise prices but they were so low to begin with that it didn't help with the backlog. He needs to learn to just say "NO" when he can't meet a customers schedule and have a more realistic idea of how many seats he can deliver on a consistent basis.

If it was me I'd be listening to these suggestions especially after I acknowledge there is a problem. Be grateful for the complaining customers for they think you're worth taking the time to talk to. As the old adage goes: for every one customer that complains there's maybe ten others that won't bother and simply go somewhere else. BUT, it's not about me. This is Seth's business.

"He has to take the business to the next level with trained, competent staff and a professional outlook."

Why? Again if it were my business this is the way I'd be aiming but is this what he wants? Does he even know what he wants? I guess only those who are personally close to him could answer that. A lot of very good suggestions have been offered for him throughout this thread but I wonder if they're hitting the mark. In my couple of phone conversations with him he clearly was aware of his on-line reputation and actually brought it up early in the first call. You would think this would weigh on someone and make going to work each day less pleasant and more stressful. This can't be making him happy either. Could he be the type who is content just keeping things simple? You know - get up in the morning, stroll out to the garage, talk to a few people, build a few seats, pay a few bills. People he talks to are happy. He's happy. Life is good. Rinse and repeat. Does the business really have to 'grow'?

Yes, no excuse for not keeping promises. He has to should recognize what he wants and what his limits are. But either way losing 20% of his business might actually be "the best thing that could happen" for Seth.

 

[El Toro]

That idea that Seth is an artist is sort of along the same lines as the idea that people who work at Subway are "Sandwich Artists."

Edit: Rest of post was too long. Iggy would not have liked it anyway. Sigh...

 

[RossKean]

My point about taking the business to the next level is based, perhaps, on my own personality. The thought of coming in to work each day with FAR more work than I could manage and being in an adversarial relationship with my customers would drive me crazy. I would constantly have the feeling that I was buried and couldn't even come up for air. Perhaps Seth can just "go with the flow" but I couldn't; at least not long-term. If this is a craft/hobby from which he derives a tremendous amount of satisfaction then maybe it is worth his while to continue in the same fashion.

If I truly loved the job, I would find ways of making it easier on myself while still producing a product that is of high quality and in high demand. I wouldn't do it by working 12 hours a day and constantly working behind a deadline - feeling like I couldn't even take a day off without falling further behind. If you don't want a larger business, raise the price to reduce demand to a level you can manage. If that doesn't work and you don't want to hire staff to take over some of the more mundane parts of the job, you might have to find another way.

Maybe a seat lottery? Figure out how many seats you can or want to build in a period of time and do a draw to see who gets their seat? Or do a hard cutoff, providing customers with a realistic build date. That will pare the work down to a manageable level. It will scare some people away but you won't be pissing people off. If getting your seat in three months (guaranteed) isn't an issue, then great. If it is a problem then the customer can go elsewhere without any need to be angry or bad-mouth the seat builder.

If it is a business, then run it like a business. If it is a craft that you enjoy, then do whatever you want. I couldn't work that way! (I have done YEARS of 70+ hour weeks and no matter how much you like it, it ain't worth it!)

 

[Bounce]

Somewhere (here or elsewhere when someone was complaining about deadlines missed) I compared this to any custom craft. Guns, knives, furniture, or anything all takes time if it's meant to be a quality piece. In the case of many of these craftsmen, they are years behind on delivery dates. HOWEVER (here's the kicker), they know this and the backlog is part of the process. They tell their customers up front who either buy into the process or walk. When that custom knife comes in, all wait times are forgotten.

This is not the craftsman you pick when you have a personal deadline.

Heck, I just ordered some high-zoot thermos mug that is a new design and it won't be here until march of next year. It's just a hunk of triple-walled metal and other tech that includes a little hand assembly of a few of all the parts. But it's a new startup doing only the products being pre-ordered. I also waited months for my PdP FJR after putting down a deposit for a bike sight unseen. The trick to avoid frustrations is to understand what you're getting into and walking in with your eyes front-and-center.

 

[juniorfjr]

I'm hoping my seat turns out well. The stock pans will arrive in Redding Wednesday. From filling out the order form online to Kaaren emailing me a production time and confirming the process it has all gone smoothly. Fortunately I have no real timeline to get them done and by the time they come back my season might be over. In my business we make products custom for every customer and sometimes they go sideways, it happens. It's what you do after they go sideways that will make a difference in a business. It was disappointing to hear of the others problems and made me waffle for a bit, but it was the product I wanted. So I wait.

 

[dcarver]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Ignacio" data-cid="1338374" data-time="1474309520"><p>

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="wheatonFJR" data-cid="1338367" data-time="1474308835"><p>I think LAAM's new tagline will need to read, "Great seats, when you don't give a shit when you get it."<br />

<br />

I like my LAAM seats...but I feel like they're tainted now.</p></blockquote>

<sarcasm>Whoa to the aggrieved! How can forum dwellers possibly survive the injustice? </sarcasm><br />

<br />

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<br />

<em class='bbc'>The first-world problem hand-wringing is starting to get <strong class='bbc'>cloyingly thick</strong> in this thread...along with a few that are appear to be jumping on a bandwagon with pitchforks. Please keep it civil folks and try to attack the <span class='bbc_underline'>problem</span> and not the vendor please. Thanks.</em> <img src='https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_emoticon' /></p></blockquote>

 

[mikerider]

Hahaha! Yes. When I saw people calling him an 'artist', I just couldn't stop laughing.

I'm an oil change artist myself... (specializing in FJR)

That idea that Seth is an artist is sort of along the same lines as the idea that people who work at Subway are "Sandwich Artists."
Edit: Rest of post was too long. Iggy would not have liked it anyway. Sigh...

 

[Spud]

I'm an artist too. The stock seat I still ride on is my slab of granite waiting to be sculpted into something beautiful one day.

 

[bigjohnsd]

Craftsman certainly, Artist ? Depends on your definition.

Having met Seth, I think that as long as he has work to do, and he has lots;

beer in the refrigerator, and he has and consumes lots;

life is PFG and I don't think he really gives a shit much beyond that and getting out to ride his dirt bike occasionally.

Just my observation

 

[wheatonFJR]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Ignacio" data-cid="1338374" data-time="1474309520"><p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="wheatonFJR" data-cid="1338367" data-time="1474308835"><p>I think LAAM's new tagline will need to read, "Great seats, when you don't give a shit when you get it."<br />

<br />

I like my LAAM seats...but I feel like they're tainted now.</p></blockquote>

<sarcasm>Whoa to the aggrieved! How can forum dwellers possibly survive the injustice? </sarcasm><br />

<br />

.<br />

.<br />

<br />

<em class='bbc'>The first-world problem hand-wringing is starting to get <strong class='bbc'>cloyingly thick</strong> in this thread...along with a few that are appear to be jumping on a bandwagon with pitchforks. Please keep it civil folks and try to attack the <span class='bbc_underline'>problem</span> and not the vendor please. Thanks.</em> <img src='https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_emoticon' /></p></blockquote>

Carver,were you tryin to say something?

Don't worry...with a few more posts under your belt I'm sure yewl get this posting thing figgered out.

 

[juniorfjr]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Ignacio" data-cid="1338374" data-time="1474309520"><p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="wheatonFJR" data-cid="1338367" data-time="1474308835"><p>I think LAAM's new tagline will need to read, "Great seats, when you don't give a shit when you get it."<br />

<br />

I like my LAAM seats...but I feel like they're tainted now.</p></blockquote>

<sarcasm>Whoa to the aggrieved! How can forum dwellers possibly survive the injustice? </sarcasm><br />

<br />

.<br />

.<br />

<br />

<em class='bbc'>The first-world problem hand-wringing is starting to get <strong class='bbc'>cloyingly thick</strong> in this thread...along with a few that are appear to be jumping on a bandwagon with pitchforks. Please keep it civil folks and try to attack the <span class='bbc_underline'>problem</span> and not the vendor please. Thanks.</em> <img src='https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_emoticon' /></p></blockquote>

Carver,were you tryin to say something?

Don't worry...with a few more posts under your belt I'm sure yewl get this posting thing figgered out.

OK, so it wasn't just me.

 

[ionbeam]

We received the Laam seats today in Knoxville! The seats were drop-shipped to my mothers residence. We have them on the bike, it was a tight fit but they are on. The build quality looks good. We have ridden on the seats for 1.2 miles so the final evaluation isn't quite done yet.

Sordid details below, read only if bored out of your mind

====================================================================================

We left home on the stock seats which work well for some people, I'm not one of them. The whining and crying from the driver about the stock seat was awful. The candy-ass wimp massively interrupted the flow of the ride from NH to VA with lots of butt-breaks and messed up the ride for everyone else with us.

I had a message on my cell phone from Seth that the seats were done Thursday of last week so I called him back before noon Redding time. There was an issue with the post office not recognizing my mother's address. Seth had a melt-down over it because I couldn't solve the issue while standing on the road side in the middle of a ride. Hysterics and accusations flew from the other end of the phone. He told me he was going to explain the problem to be 6 times so I would understand what he was saying, and then proceeded to do just that, repeating exactly the same statement 6 times. I finally handed the phone to Good Pillion to deal with the screams and tears coming from Redding. He hung up on her before she had a chance to explain how to resolve the problem.

That afternoon I got a message from USPS showing that the seats were shipping second day -- to our house in New Hampshire. While I was out drinking hard and telling tales visiting with the EOM crowd unbeknown to me Good Pillion called Seth and told him the seats were going to the wrong address. Seth says it was the fault of the incompetent shipper (who would that be?

). She wasn't sure if he had time to correct the shipping address so she didn't mention the call to me. It looks like the call that Good Pillion made did the trick. I'll keep 'er

The promised return shipping label to return the stock seats to NH wasn't in the seat box, but at this point I really don't care a lot.

It will probably be Tuesday or Wednesday before the seats get the first real day long use. We are looking forward to the real objective of this whole debacle to prove it was worth it. The ride back to NH is beginning to show hope of being much more pleasurable than the ride down.

 

[El Toro Joe]

Wow...holy crap

 

[Bounce]

What a mess.

 

[Fred W]

Yay!! Really glad that you guys got the seats. Whether they turn out to be "all that" or not, we were all hoping that you'd catch a break on this and be able to ride home somewhat comfortably. Enjoy the rest of your vacation time, and put some salve on those tender parts before you head back north!

PS - Great job Helen!!