Dead FJR - no starter engage/spin

[GMAK]

I think OP has bailed out of the troubleshooting and brought it to a shop.

Yes, as the OP, that's partly true. I have bailed, but not gone to dealer as yet.

I've just done as usual. I left the FJR parked in the garage, and haven't touched it much since my earlier participation in this thread. That's probably been around a week or so. But, a couple of days ago(3/14, 3/15), I did shuffle out there, turn on the ignition, and start the bike twice. Actually, in terms of circuit activity, you could say that I started it thrice. Because the first attempt was shorted by my own early release of the start button, before starting. Not that it's ever a prolonged starting requirement, I just didn't expect to get an engine spin, and prematurely released the button in anticipation. In reality, everything worked just like nothing had ever been wrong. I came back to this thread because I was on the site looking for any gen 3 issues. Possibly, in anticipation of a replacement. During that research, I came across https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=134725 and I've been reading through that item.

I have an awaiting commitment right now, but I'll return this evening with more details.

Thanks,

Gary

 

[Fred W]

That linked thread very well may be your problem too. The fact that both your problem and the OP in the other thread's are intermittent is a clue.

I think where we went off track here was when you reported (correctly) that you heard the fuel pump while holding down the starter button. After going all the way around the mulberry bush, it appears that the fuel pump does normally runs while the starter button is pushed, but who knew (since we can't hear it over the starter motor).

The important observation is that you heard the starter relay click, but the starter motor did not turn. I apologize for sending this off track. Hopefully your intermittent start problem is just the starter relay too, as that is a cheap and easy fix.

 

[RossKean]

There was, as far as I could see, no mention of whether there was a "click" when the starter button was pressed. We might have ended down a different path (or not). It is sometimes hard to tell what might be important in a diagnosis - particularly a diagnosis via Internet forum when the bike isn't sitting in front of you. We got a little lost in interpreting sounds that someone very familiar with the bike would know right away (i.e. pump vs unloaded starter etc.). Anyway, I hope that the relay is the issue. A couple of other people have also had this happen and it is a moderately easy (and low cost) fix.

 

[eflyguy]

.. and a defective relay isn't all that uncommon - not necessarily on the FJR, perhaps, but it happens quite a bit.

 

[GMAK]

.. and a defective relay isn't all that uncommon - not necessarily on the FJR, perhaps, but it happens quite a bit.

OK, here's my progress, as of moments ago:

At the prompt from one of my biker peeps, I stepped out in the garage and ran through 5 quick start sequences.

The bike started just fine on all sequences. I used the kill switch to terminate/begin the next sequence. The battery, while probably not happy about this exercise, was quite strong, with no degradation, no starter drag, and certainly no failure to engage(aka bendix engagement).

This is my assessment of the situation:

The bike original failed due to a slight battery poll connectivity fault. This problem provided just enough CCA limitation to deny the starter engagement, but still spin the starter. (My fuel pump activation assessment was just stupid).

I pulled the battery, and cleaned the connections thoroughly, but did not clean/dry my battery work before reinstall.

The starter spin failure persisted.

I made the FJR set in the garage for ~3 days, lonely, until it was ready to operate correctly.

I formulated my original post here, with follow on discussion(s).

I did the 3 start tests(where the first was really just a starter engage test), and the latter 2 started just fine.

I provided forum update #60. And then further waited until today.

I did the 5 quick start sequences successfully, without any noticeable battery drain, starter drag, starter fail, or anything else considered abnormal.

I'm thinking that the wet battery, that failed immediately after cleaning, either succumbed to a continued faulty connection, that disappeared after allowed to more fully dry. Or something else occurred which I either can't recall, or I am unaware.

I will say, that the battery posts were cleaned with a new toothbrush, water, and a little Comet/BonAmi type stuff. In addition, lightly coated with Dr. Pepper( because I had no Coke). This, and a few drops of soda pop on a battery terminal, has been my practice for years. To break/avoid a corrosion impasse. And, I have rescued countless cars with this tactic, that were otherwise stranded with dead batteries. I should clarify.... I've used Coke only to help liven a battery given up as dead. The water and cleanser were used only because I'd removed the battery for complete cleaning.

It's nice weather here, and I'll probably ride sometime this weekend. I'll report further on my permanent progress, and if I get stranded somewhere.

Thanks,

Gary

 

[RossKean]

I hope all is solved but I am a little sceptical. A "wet" battery isn't going to be unable to produce starting current.

Five solid starts in a row may or may not mean things are OK. The nature of an intermittent failure of a high current contact (start relay or ignition switch) is such that you could be OK for a time but symptoms are likely to reappear. Good luck with it!

 

[GMAK]

I hope all is solved but I am a little sceptical. A "wet" battery isn't going to be unable to produce starting current.
Five solid starts in a row may or may not mean things are OK. The nature of an intermittent failure of a high current contact (start relay or ignition switch) is such that you could be OK for a time but symptoms are likely to reappear. Good luck with it!

I rode last night, ~21:00, about 15-16 miles, nonstop, without problem. I'm getting ready to ride to the same area, but stop for gas. Of course, this will require an engine start leaving the garage, and again, leaving the gas stop. The bike did well last night, and ran like it was new.

I understand your comment on "wet battery". I should have been more clear. Based on my recent riding, I'm beginning to think this was just a nasty corrosion type buildup, that impeded adequate current flow from my battery. Of course, my record on diagnosis thus far, is pretty dismal. That was really what I meant with the "wet battery" comment. That was meant to suggest that perhaps I hadn't allowed enough time to pass after the battery cleaning(and specifically, the soda pop application to dissolve any unseen corrosion patches). Because, although the problem continued after the battery reinstall. After waiting untouched for ~12 hours,

the start problem has not returned. In summary, I'll post my results with this short ride today.

And, if this does eventually show t be nothing more than corrosion interruption(albeit, a very very nasty one), I sincerely apologize to all here concerned, for not being able to determine that via extended testing. I'm sorry to have broken the relative solitude here, with a quasi problem, that appears could have been solved

personally, with more perseverance.

Thanks,

Gary

 

[GMAK]

I just returned from my gas stop that I mentioned in #66. Everything went flawlessly, and the starts were quick and strong. as far as I can see, this whole interruption was nothing more than a very bad case of battery connection corrosion, that could not be observed.

Also, once again, thank you everyone here for your helpful suggestions and contributions. I've learned a lot with this problem, like there's just no limit to the depth of a problem that can be caused by a battery compromised in some way. I've also learned to be better at the ability to stand back and assess the situation objectively/intelligently, before squealing to others for help. But, I must admit this problem had the strangest set of parameters that I've ever experienced.

Thanks again,

Gary

 

[rbentnail]

I just returned from my gas stop that I mentioned in #66. Everything went flawlessly, and the starts were quick and strong. as far as I can see, this whole interruption was nothing more than a very bad case of battery connection corrosion, that could not be observed.

Also, once again, thank you everyone here for your helpful suggestions and contributions. I've learned a lot with this problem, like there's just no limit to the depth of a problem that can be caused by a battery compromised in some way. I've also learned to be better at the ability to stand back and assess the situation objectively/intelligently, before squealing to others for help. But, I must admit this problem had the strangest set of parameters that I've ever experienced.

Thanks again,

Gary

I think you're over thinking it. We're really good at over-anal-yzing and overcomplicating even the simplest things, beating dead horses, and overstating the importance of even the minutest of minutia.

 

[Fred W]

100 good starts doesn't help explain what happened during the 1 bad start. It's a waiting game.

 

[GMAK]

No speller deployed here. Read at your own risk. <g>

OK, this is my FJR "won't start" Yamaha dealer repair final summary.
Sorry it took so long, but I had to stress over which dealer to select,
and then arrange for transport. Etc., etc., etc.

As some here suggested, the final diagnosis was the starter relay.
I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised, only because I would
have expected "no spin" at all from the starter if the relay faulty.
But, either the start button circuitry is sufficient to carry the "spin
starter" load before engage, or the starter relay is dual phase for
1. "spin starter", 2. engage & start. I'm not an engineer/technician,
so I really don't know.

Anyway, I wanted to wait for the completion so I could reference
the part number(s). Reading from the invoice, it appears this is
the only part replaced.
. 4YR-81940-02-00 - Starter Relay Assy.

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/p/yamaha/4yr-81940-02-00/starter-relay-assy-rc19-018

"#5, Right next to the battery(#1)"

I will also say that in my 50+ years of automobile/motorcycle
operation, I've never been stranded like this by intermittent
failures of this starter relay. Of course, in hindsight, if I'd have
just checked the bike into the ER initially, I would have saved
the new Yuasa battery installed, and countless hours of frustr-
ation with repair attempts, strandings, and road rescues.

Thank everyone here for their attention/contributions. Lets
just hope that if someone else here has this/similar problem,
they can be a much quicker/smarter study than I was.

 

[GMAK]

Sorry, my 11:16am post somehow dropped some information.

Two URL's were back to back, but only one appears. This is

hopefully how it should have appeared.

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/p/yamaha/4yr-81940-02-00/starter-relay-assy-rc19-018



"#5, Right next to the battery(#1)"

 

[GMAK]

OK, that didn't work any better. Let's try the tinyurl alternates.

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/p/yamaha/4yr-81940-02-00/starter-relay-assy-rc19-018

https://tinyurl.com/ybtt2oo8


https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/50045b50f8700209bc794079/electrical-2

https://tinyurl.com/y972emva

"#5, Right next to the battery(#1)"

 

[GMAK]

Now, they all worked? That's OK. As you see, there are dual URLs for each reference.

Thanks again.