Drivetrain lack of lubrication

[Intech]

Took mine apart this weekend. I did take pictures, but have not uploaded them yet. Mine looked almost identical to Allen's except that I had a little more grease on the splines and only had that spot of corrosion on the spline end in the same spot as yours. The rest of it looked like it could be new.

 

[Allen_C]

Took mine apart this weekend. I did take pictures, but have not uploaded them yet. Mine looked almost identical to Allen's except that I had a little more grease on the splines and only had that spot of corrosion on the spline end in the same spot as yours. The rest of it looked like it could be new.

Not bad for a 7 year old bike with over 70k miles. For my 6 month old bike with 7.5k miles, not so good...but workable.

Still waiting to hear from other Gen 3 owners...

 

[Geezer]

If you understand the basic principle that all splines have clearances that allow them to be assembled, will allow them to move longtitudinally and radially..... and the basic principle that metal on metal movement generates heat and wear......... and that corrosion will prevent such movement where movement was intended, thus potentially stressing the adjacent component (U-joint)......... why the heck would you not lube splines at least once, to satisfy yourself that it was done right at least once, and that if you used a good quality stuff, it might last a long time before you have to do it again........
Who among us is willing to wash away the existing if any, lube and run them dry... I'd like your report on how long they last please....... yup, I don't think I'm about to get many volunteers...........

I have to agree with Ray on this one. Not only is there intentional clearance between the male and female spline surfaces but also the machining process would have tolerances and each spline would not be perfect, so I believe that lubrication helps minimize wear to the splines themselves from radial forces as well as protection from corrosion.

And, although there is no need to fret about surface rust on the non-splined length of the shaft, I prefer to keep a light coating of grease on there as well, just to keep the corrosion to a minimum.

 

[Fred W]

Anyone have any pictures, or accounts for that matter, of a failed drive-shaft spline on an FJR? Not talking about one that rusted and cant be separated. Looking for one that has actually failed. Striped splines. No more drive.

With as many FJRs as there are running around out there, many that have accumulated sizable amounts of mileage, and knowing well that they come from the factory with nearly no grease on that spline coupling, and also realizing than not every owner is as fastidious about maintenance as the nut cases that frequent these forums... it just goes to reason that there would be some failures if this is really a wear item.

In case anyone is wondering about my contrarian position on this, it is mostly devil's discipleship. I do have grease on my splines. I'm one of the fastidious forum nut-cases.

 

[Allen_C]

Anyone have any pictures, or accounts for that matter, of a failed drive-shaft spline on an FJR? Not talking about one that rusted and cant be separated. Looking for one that has actually failed. Striped splines. No more drive.
With as many FJRs as there are running around out there, many that have accumulated sizable amounts of mileage, and knowing well that they come from the factory with nearly no grease on that spline coupling, and also realizing than not every owner is as fastidious about maintenance as the nut cases that frequent these forums... it just goes to reason that there would be some failures if this is really a wear item.

In case anyone is wondering about my contrarian position on this, it is mostly devil's discipleship. I do have grease on my splines. I'm one of the fastidious forum nut-cases.

I think what it comes down to us "nut-cases" is given the option, do we want grease on our splines or are we willing to ride with it dry? You just answered that question for yourself, as many others have. No worries about you appearing to be Devil's advocate; we need contrarian viewpoints to keep our minds working so do not all become copies of each other.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Anyone have any pictures, or accounts for that matter, of a failed drive-shaft spline on an FJR? Not talking about one that rusted and cant be separated. Looking for one that has actually failed. Striped splines. No more drive.

Rusted and seized to me would be almost as bad.

 

[FJReady]

I was already to post-up about preventative maintanence and how I lube my splines, etc., but that photo KJ put up make me lose my train of thought. Thanks KJ.

 

[Fred W]

Anyone have any pictures, or accounts for that matter, of a failed drive-shaft spline on an FJR? Not talking about one that rusted and cant be separated. Looking for one that has actually failed. Striped splines. No more drive.

Rusted and seized to me would be almost as bad.

Not in a joint that never moves.

Just answer the damn question!

 

[Bounce]

Not in a joint that never moves.

But the Ujoint DOES move. At a minimum during assembly and dis-assembly. You're saying you don't mind a seized spline in the event the motor ever needs pulled (or any other maint requiring pulling the shaft from the bike)? I don't accept that.

 

[Ignacio]

Not in a joint that never moves.

But the Ujoint DOES move. At a minimum during assembly and dis-assembly. You're saying you don't mind a seized spline in the event the motor ever needs pulled (or any other maint requiring pulling the shaft from the bike)? I don't accept that.

Gawd I can't believe I'm posting on this. I agree with Bounce in there is a small amount of movement of a splined joint as u-joints do their job. Think super short masturbation stroke that's every-so-slightly-bigger if the the suspension is in compression or deflection from the static position.

But to FredW's point, so what? Has there ever been a failure of a spline joint because it was so rusted so that the splines failed or somebody wasn't able to get the two splined parts apart because they were so encrusted in rust that a beater wouldn't do the job? Inquiring minds want to know SoCalFJR1300. Just answer the question!

I will in the meantime. I've heard of two and they were both u-joint related...not specified about rust levels.

Having spent some of my early life in the seat and on the business end of an 1958 Farmall I've always looked at the FJR spline and thought, "Hey, this reminds me of a mini version of the PTO on the old tractor....except lots less rust than the agricultural cousin." And I remember Dad telling me, "Don't worry about greasing that thing son...it's not as important as the other 27 bajillion other zerk fittings you must grease at least once a day on the tractor and baler....or I'll beat you." (he didn't actually say the last part, just inferred it as he loved that old tractor and baler) And it would seize up on the tractor after a good thorough use of the baler for 3 days straight. But, a few pounds from a 4 pound sledge always loosened it right up and off the shaft.

And it was out in the open without even a shroud over it. My God Man.....I could have been killed as tetanus-laden shrapnel grenaded through my spleen! Not.

So, I'm one of those that greased my '05 because it was on FJRTech.net when Warchild was feeling pretty saucy about the manifesto he wrote, but I've come to believe there's a LOT more to worry about on the FJR than this bit of overly-engineered steel. And I haven't greased it since. I think there's even a little rust on it. Should I care? If so, what brand of grease should I use?

...I feel all NEPRTY!

 

[Fred W]

...I feel all NEPRTY!

Who wouldn't be, if not you, Matt?

PS - MJ, I reject your lack of acceptance. It's not that I don't care about a rusty spline (even if that were the eventuality) it's just not what we are debating talking about here. We're talking wear, man. Please pay attention.

PPS - for any modern, sensitive types out there (you know, you are the ones who don't enjoy a little controversy) that think that those of us jabbering about such minutiae are getting overly serious about any of it, you need to realize that conversations (or debates) where everyone agrees on the original premise are a lot like self flagellation: It's just freaking boring.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Good gawd, this thing is still going?? Some of you guys need to learn how to lube a woman.

 

[Geezer]

Good gawd, this thing is still going?? Some of you guys need to learn how to lube a woman.

They always seem to self-lubricate for me. You must be doing something wrong there 'zilla.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Did another Aussie Forum member's bike yesterday.

Getting quite good at it, hopefully a sign of my post op improvement.

A 2010 with approx 30K kms, all was AOK.

The previous owner must have been a member of one of the Forums.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Anyone have any pictures, or accounts for that matter, of a failed drive-shaft spline on an FJR? Not talking about one that rusted and cant be separated. Looking for one that has actually failed. Striped splines. No more drive.

Rusted and seized to me would be almost as bad.

Not in a joint that never moves.

Just answer the damn question!

Do I personally have evidence of one that failed?

No, but you're saying one that's rusted to the point it's seized isn't a problem?? Just to keep it from rusting it should have some lube IMOP.

Fred, what do you mean the spline doesn't move? It turns doesn't it?

there were pics in a thread either on this forum or on the other FJR forum from a rider in England where his shaft drive was seized together with rust.

Took him awhile to get it separated and clean it all up. (I'm sure he rode a lot in the rain though)

 

[HotRodZilla]

Anyone see the irony of Fred saying the splines don't need lubed, but he lubed his? Its not who you are underneath, its what you do that defines you. Fred is a luber, so playing Devil's advocate is just wasting space.

Here is RFH putting Fred in his place. Spoiler: Fred is wearing the tie:

 

[Ignacio]

Do I personally have evidence of one that failed?
No

Thank you for finally answering the question.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Do I personally have evidence of one that failed?No

Thank you for finally answering the question.

But could excessive wear do to non lube cause a noise that would create another neprt here? I'm betting yes.

Several over the years have squawked aboot strange noises while operating...

Could excessively worn dry splines cause this? Hard to say as me, as well as others , have chased those who's questions seem illogical.

Away.

Pretty simple though.. Metal to metal without lube is a bad idea.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Do I personally have evidence of one that failed?

No

Thank you for finally answering the question.

Finally?

Didn't know I was "required" to answer a general question that wasn't even directed at me personally.

Took me 2 whole posts though oh the humanity!

and just because I "personally" don't know of any doesn't mean it doesn't happen does it?

It's a good thing that it doesn't seem to happen often, but you don't have to me a mechanical engineer to know that metal to metal parts will last MUCH longer with some type of lube every so often.

 

[Fred W]

Not in a joint that never moves.

Just answer the damn question!

Do I personally have evidence of one that failed?

No, but you're saying one that's rusted to the point it's seized isn't a problem?? Just to keep it from rusting it should have some lube IMOP.

Again, we are talking about the spline joint wearing out or failing due to lack of lubrication.

When it is rusted together (seized) with the U-joint side of the spline joint it will still couple the drive power to the rear wheel very well, it just can't be disassembled easily.

Imagine this: You insert the splined shaft into the U-joint half of the splined joint fully and then weld the two halves together. How well would that work as a drive-shaft?

Obviously it would be difficult to disassemble should you want to do that in the future (which is the only reason that they don't just make it all as one piece) but would that cause the drive-shaft to fail?

Fred, what do you mean the spline doesn't move? It turns doesn't it?

Turns in reference to what? In reference to the U-joint half of the spline joint? No there is no significant motion in that joint. In reference to the rest of world, yes it turns, but that is no significance to that spline joint.

It's a good thing that it doesn't seem to happen often, but you don't have to me a mechanical engineer to know that metal to metal parts will last MUCH longer with some type of lube every so often.

Very often? My assertion is that it never happens.

There is only a need for lubrication of metal to metal parts contact if there is relative motion of the two parts. Without any motion, there is no friction to be reduced by the lubrication. And no, I am not a mechanical engineer.

Is it ironic that I have greased my drive shaft splines but say that they do not need to be regularly lubricated? No. I've already said that it will help protect the joint from corrosion which makes it easier to disassemble, should you need to do that in the future. But I do not go in and re-grease that joint on any sort of a regular basis because I know that the joint doesn't need lubrication.

Furthermore, I do not regularly re-grease the rear wheel hub splines either. I greased them once a long time ago (for corrosion protection) and now every time I take that wheel off to change the tire that same grease is still there doing its job of limiting corrosion. There is no motion in that joint either, so I see no need of religiously re-lubricating it (and ending up with grease splayed all over the rear wheel).

As an aside, let's try to keep the ad hominem attacks down and try to be civil. If you want to participate in this discussion, as banal as it may seem, that's great. But there is no need to get confrontational about it. If you think the discussion is just too stupid, you can always just unsubscribe from it.