"FJR market is drying up"

[evil_henchman]

Since we've morphed into the sport of baiting and tormenting salespeople here's one of my favorites.

I hate unsolicited sales calls at work. I'm always getting calls from salesmen trying to sell parts and services and they always assume I have nothing better to do than drop what I'm doing and shoot the s**t with them. So I go back and forth with 'em for a bit then I'll hang up in mid sentence. They'll always call right back and I'll say wow that was weird now where were we and then hang up in mid sentence again. Most of 'em get it by then but I've had some call back 4 or 5 times and get seriously pissed before they get it. Yes, I'm an *******. :lol:

 

[madmike2]

Since we've morphed into the sport of baiting and tormenting salespeople here's one of my favorites.
I hate unsolicited sales calls..... I'm always getting calls from salesmen trying to sell services and they always assume I have nothing better to do than drop what I'm doing and shoot the s**t with them. So I go back and forth with 'em for a bit then I'll hang up in mid sentence.

B-b-b-but you're supposed to say, "What part of I'm not interested do you not comprehend? Take me off your stupid list!"

Then hang up.

 

[evil_henchman]

Since we've morphed into the sport of baiting and tormenting salespeople here's one of my favorites.
I hate unsolicited sales calls..... I'm always getting calls from salesmen trying to sell services and they always assume I have nothing better to do than drop what I'm doing and shoot the s**t with them. So I go back and forth with 'em for a bit then I'll hang up in mid sentence.

B-b-b-but you're supposed to say, "What part of I'm not interested do you not comprehend? Take me off your stupid list!"

Then hang up.

You're absolutely correct for telemarketers. I was talking about legitimate companies selling parts and services in my industry. I have the misfortune of being listed in some who's who in the industry lists and I go to trade shows and conferences and hand out business cards, ect. So I get a lot of calls and sometimes I like to have a little fun at their expense.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Since we've morphed into the sport of baiting and tormenting salespeople here's one of my favorites.

Who has a link to an audio clip, circulating the 'net, about an unfortunate telemarketer. His 'victim' claims to be the detective at the crime scene of the intended call-ee's murder. Assuming that the telemarketer has some link to the victim, he becomes an accessory and needs to be interviewed ASAP by his local PD.

It's obviously a set-up, but if you pretend a little, it's hilarious.

Jill

 

[evil_henchman]

Since we've morphed into the sport of baiting and tormenting salespeople here's one of my favorites.

Who has a link to an audio clip, circulating the 'net, about an unfortunate telemarketer. His 'victim' claims to be the detective at the crime scene of the intended call-ee's murder. Assuming that the telemarketer has some link to the victim, he becomes an accessory and needs to be interviewed ASAP by his local PD.

It's obviously a set-up, but if you pretend a little, it's hilarious.

Jill

I've heard that it's from a radio show. Hilarious!

Edit: Here it is Link

 

[SBNFred]

Well I feel the love here already

Yes its me.. Fred from Chicago Cycle...

So now I guess I need to backup my "drying up" comment.

FJR1300 has been a GREAT bike for Yamaha. For many years. Back in 2004 and 2005 they where the hottest sport tourers around. I couldnt keep them on the showroom floor. Speaking of which. Showroom floor. Yes. Chicago Cycle forked over the $500 deposit and pre orders these bikes so the customer didnt have too. This way the bikes would be on the floor for purchase when your ready. Not when Yamaha was ready. Or better yet you could compare the ST1300 to the FJR1300.

Now my customers most of the time would take the FJR1300 over the ST1300 (Boy now the ST1300 people will be on my case) but it was my customers and I guess how I spoke about the FJR1300. Yes I can be a little biased since I am a die hard Yamaha owner myself. From FZR600 to YZFR1..

Now. Chicago Cycle did order a bunch of 2006. However sales was slow on these units. Sure some of you will say its because of pricing and such. But this isnt the case most of the time. We will always work a great price on ALL units. If you feel you are not getting a fair deal. Speak to a manager. A sales guy is not your final word. But that is another story. The FJR1300 market in general has slowed down. Guys I also own Sportbikes.net. I can tell what is hot and what is not. What is being talked about. What people are looking for. Sportbikes.net is not a magazine. Its a website just like this one with information to share.

Also, Warranty has been brought up. ANYONE.. that has bought a FJR1300 from our store gets the full 12 month warranty from the date of purchase. This is something the owner of Chicago Cycle has told me.

Guys, I will give you all the information I can give. I have NEVER been nor will I ever be a pushy sales person. I am not like that. If that was the case I would have said yes I have the FJR your looking for.. come on in and do the sales dance. I own wouldnt do that to anyone. My main job here at Chicago Cycle is Internet Manager. Why? Because everyone is shopping for the best price. If I can do the best price I will do it. I dont work on commission. I am here to provide the best customer service I can provide.

Anyways I hope this clears up a few things. If you guys have any questions, concerns, or anything. PM me.. email me.. call me. Doesnt matter. Ill be more then happy to help you any way I can.. .

 

[Bounce]

Well I feel the love here already
Yes its me.. Fred from Chicago Cycle...

So now I guess I need to backup my "drying up" comment.

FJR1300 has been a GREAT bike for Yamaha. For many years. Back in 2004 and 2005 they where the hottest sport tourers around. I couldnt keep them on the showroom floor. Speaking of which. Showroom floor. Yes. Chicago Cycle forked over the $500 deposit and pre orders these bikes so the customer didnt have too. This way the bikes would be on the floor for purchase when your ready. Not when Yamaha was ready. Or better yet you could compare the ST1300 to the FJR1300.

So your dealership lied to Yamaha corporate to defraud the PdP process buy buying bikes through the a process that was meant to be for the actual owner? By buying bikes under the names of buyers who didn't exist (or were employees of the dealership who never intended to take delivery), you got the warranty clock ticking once the bike was delivered. The PdP has always given the dealership 15 days from date of delivery to the time the documents have to be completed and sent back to Yamaha to show that the bike actually went to the person on the PdP forms. Failure to do so forfeits the $500 deposit.

1. No way you could have submitted the same name under the PdP as was eventually bought off you as a "floor display" on spec by an impulse buyer.

2. It would sit on the floor and wait for some poor schlep who impulse-bought at retail for a (in Yamaha Corporate's opinion) 2nd-hand bike.

3. (iirc), there's an additional $500 end-of-year bump back to the dealership for each PdP bike properly processed.

4. That being the case, no dealership would eat $500 - $1000 per just to floor a bike without "adjustments" elsewhere.

Nice. What was it about some dealerships that make people pissed off so much?

Now what was this about "drying up" a market which only existed in your alternate reality from the beginning?

Also, Warranty has been brought up. ANYONE.. that has bought a FJR1300 from our store gets the full 12 month warranty from the date of purchase. This is something the owner of Chicago Cycle has told me.

Then the owner is extending a single-shop warranty for the balance. Yamaha's warranty starts no more than 15 days after a PdP bike reaches a dealer. That's because Yamaha's PdP program process meant that the actual owner had pre-ordered and that the dealership should be able to hand over that bike to the owner within that 15 days. If the name on the PdP isn't the same as the person who actually buys it, then Yamaha sees the real buyer as a "2nd owner" (or at least did under the PdP program). That single-shop warranty might be okay for local yokels, but it ain't worth squat out on the road when the unsuspecting 2nd owner needs warranty repair at another Yamaha shop somewhere else. It also means that an extended YES warranty is from the end date of Yamaha's original warranty (no more than 15 days from the bike's delivery to the dealership). Those days, weeks, or months spent sitting on a showroom floor (under PdP) domino down through every variation of YES contract the 2nd owner might choose to buy.

I personally see any potential "slow down" in '06 as (primarily) a direct result of Yamaha sending out only EAs to the mags for review when the new models came out. Their performance numbers (for the types of tests mags focus) were down and the squid kiddies wanting only those numbers were discouraged from buying the A model. Perhaps the perception of slow down was a local effect. Clearly a forum focused on sport bikes will be a less-than-optimal bellweather for a sport-touring bike. The biggest group to complain about the weight and performance of the FJR has historically been from the people who prefer pure sport bikes.

All reading of entrails by salesmen aside, I see the rest of this thread as being pretty "aware" of the actual issues whirling around your teapot tempest.

 

[SkooterG]

Your info on the 12 month warranty is incorrect. Unless that is, your dealership itself is specifically providing it. But then it still wouldn't be a factory warranty. When your dealership ordered extra bikes under the PDP in employee's names, it was in violation of Yamaha's PDP program. One of the things Yamaha did to try and stop dealerships from doing this was start the warranty as soon as the FJR was delivered. Since it was supposed to be delivered directly to the customer who ordered it, the warranty registration was automatically done in the name of the person who ordered it (in your case - employee names) and started right away. Now the name can be transferred to the true customer who eventually bought the FJR, but the 12 month warranty clock started at delivery. Period.

Sorry Fred, but this info is well known to those of us that are truly familiar with the PDP program. It also has been verified by other Yamaha dealers/sales people who are members of this forum, and are also well versed in the PDP program.

I do give you credit for having the cajones to come here and endure the eventual abuse you are about to receive.

Now, about the "pricing". Why should I go haggle for your "best price" with a salesman at your dealership when there are several dealers known to this forum and it's members who have excellent reputations, and advertise one price in advance, and don't add any B.S. fees such as freight, set-up, and whatever. Why even bother going through the hassle when I don't have to?

As for demand drying up, I appreciate your unique perspective on this, but based on the traffic on this forum, I would say interest in 2006 FJRs far exceeded previous year models. You're either wrong on this, or Chicago Cycle was just an anomaly.

Welcome to the collective!

 

[SBNFred]

No this is me as a fellow sportbike rider talking since I spoke the way I need too for Chicago Cycle.

I understood the PDP program was for pre orders. Yes.. its a garunteed way to have a bike sell so you dont have it stuck in a warehouse. Hell look at Honda and the VTX1300. They had to offload thousands of them because they made to many. This in turn made resell value on this bikes to nill.

Now as a fellow sportbike rider I would rather see and sit and touch something before I would purchase. Just like the FJR1300. Honestly I never gave that bike a second look until I was able to take one out for a test ride over the weekend on stage coach road in Galena, IL. Great bike. I love it. But I would have never even thought about purchasing one until I got to see it. Sure I saw it at the Yamaha show years ago. But hell I get to see every bike before it hits the mass's because of my website. But your average consumer doesnt have this option.

Both replies I have heard is all about breaking the PDP agreement with Yamaha. Do you guys work for Yamaha? Honestly, as a sportbike rider, wouldnt it be nicer if you can see the bike on the floor before you purchased it?

Ok the Warranty issue. If I am able to sell a bike to someone keep the warranty intact for the 12 months of purchase isnt that a good thing that its being honored by that dealership? Then again it isnt a Yamaha and doesnt have really any warranty issues so to speak.. (Ohhh and recalls dont count )

Growth of a website. Ohh now your talking my language.

Now this is my Webmaster speech.. has nothing to do with Chicago Cycle. Yes I have multiple personalities I guess in this reply

Growth of a website means NOTHING about people having interest in the FJR1300. Just because they are interested in the FJR1300 doesn't mean they are a consumer.

So why can I say the FJR1300 is fading away? Well lets see. I have 70,000 registered members on Sportbikes.net. I get invites to ALL events and shows. I work closely with hundreds of advertisers, sponsors, manufactorers. I listen and read what people are saying.

Yes the hype last year was the new AE. But guys I am not a e-zine of any sorts. Fact is the AE bike just felt wrong. I guess its because I am old fashioned and still like using the clutch. Last year they didnt say anything about the FJR1300A model since nothing was really done to it. Why push something everyone knows?

So do I have a leg to stand on saying the FJR1300 is fading. I didn't say fading away. But its not as hot as it used to be.

Understand when I make that statement that I am not saying the bike is bad. The bike is GREAT! Hell more people should look at the FJR1300 then the Goldwing in my opinion. But I guess what it really comes down to is this. Its my opinion. Will I share my opinion with customers. Sure. Did I make the statement to the first poster about this topic to push a sale? Nope. I said it as a blanket statement that I have found through my research that FJR1300 is down. But as it has been said so has the entire motorcycle market. Chicago Cycle is the first and only dealership I have worked for. Before I have worked for large fortune 500 companies. I needed to do something that I love and that is why I ended here. Sure people can say bad stuff about Chicago Cycle. But there are many good things.

The main reason why I signed up to this board was to defend my name. That was pretty much it. People calling me a moron and whatever else. Or that I am pushing a sale. Well I just wanted you guys to know its not who I am. My job doesn't define who I am. I define who I am. Yes its very difficult to work at a motorcycle shop and own a very large and successful website. But at the same time its a good thing. I have had a lot of members get some great deals on there bikes. Its something I can do to help members of my website. I will still continue to help as much as I can and give information that I have found to be true.

I will still be a Yamaha guy.. Well Suzuki peaked my interest last year with the new GSXR600 and 750.. and Ducati with the 1098. But hell I would be switching bikes every 6 months if I kept purchasing what I wanted.

I am not here to get anyones business. Sure many of you guys have followed the PDP program and your very happy with your purchase. But does that mean a guy that has been off a bike for a few years and knows nothing about the FJR1300 doesn't have the right to see it before purchasing? Either being right or wrong dealerships and Yamaha should be worring about the PDP program. Not the consumer. But heck thats my opinion yet again

Let me get my jacket on since I am sure someone is going to flame me again

 

[SBNFred]

Ohh and BTW.. here is the post on my website since I had to share this with members of SBN.

I dont believe in talking behind each others back so here is a link

https://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=339740

 

[automag928]

This thread turned from almost worthless down to a steamy pile of dog turd...Fred, by posting on your "home turf" so to speak, you've now started a flame war between SBN and FJR...

From my standpoint this was never FJR forum vs. SBN, it was about a consumer vs a sales guy...YOU brought in SBN to the spotlight...

So now there is a flame fest of people posting on SBN about how all us on the FJR forum are a bunch of whiney cry babies, and the FJR guys here are going to flame you for saying what you said and how your dealer broke company policy esp when it will screw potential owners out of warranties.

This reminds me of the teenagers on the local import car forums having it out with the "older" domestic car local forums...Just dumb....

 

[SBNFred]

From my standpoint this was never FJR forum vs. SBN, it was about a consumer vs a sales guy...YOU brought in SBN to the spotlight...

Sales Guy who's name is Fred. Who I am known very well in many different places. I have a right to back myself up. Consumer has not spoken to me but decides to call me a Moron..

Yes brought it into the spotlight.

See the problem is this. I dont know what your complaining about. Is it me and my comment that the FJR1300 sales have slowed down? Is it the problem from dealerships and Yamaha and the PDP program which has nothing to do with you the consumer.. Or is it the Warranty from the date of purchase?

I have no idea what the problem is. If its the Warranty and we already stated that any FJR1300 bought from Chicago Cycle has a 12 month warranty on it from date of purchase. Its a statement that I can stand behind from the owner of the Company.

So other people have had problems with there warranty at other dealerships. Fine.. but it has nothing to do with Chicago Cycle.

I stand behind what I have said. I stand behind the company I work for. I am not here to sell you a bike. I am standing up for myself. I think I have a right to do that

 

[Jkern1]

I will not even respond to the sales guy because he hs basing his comment on no real data, just a gut feeling to sale a slow moving bike on his floor. But, lets look at this from another perspective that i feel is a good one. What is the total "SAM" of rider that are in the market for a sport-touring bike? Also what are the buying habits of that type of rider? Out of the overall riding community sport-tours make up a very small percentage, so the number of people that are even considering these type of bikes is limited. Also most people that buy ST bikes hold on to them for a while, they do not flip them every year for the next best thing. So the number of units sold will slowly decrease to the extent that the FJR grabs more market share, or the potential buying base increases. There is one major factor that can offset this, which is competition. The ST space is getting very crowded.(THIS IS A GOOD THING) You have bikes like the, ST1300,FJR,k1200gt,new concourse,R1200rt,Sprint st, ECT. ECT. The point being there are many good choices for ST bikes on the market, so it will fragment the overall ST market even more. Yamaha knows this, and that is why they did the PDP. But, with the success of the PDP they may have over estimated what the true demand will be in the market place. Because the bubble of early adaptors have probably already bought their FJR and will not be buying another bike for 3-7 years. So i believe that in 2007 or 2008 we will see many FJR sitting on showroom floor, with heavy discounts, not because it is a bad bike, but because of the over saturation of the ST market. So in conclusion is the FJR market drying up? Maybe, 2007 will be a year where we can really see if that is true.

Just a different way to look at this question which i find very interesting.

 

[SBNFred]

I will not even respond to the sales guy because he hs basing his comment on no real data, just a gut feeling to sale a slow moving bike on his floor. But, lets look at this from another perspective that i feel is a good one. What is the total "SAM" of rider that are in the market for a sport-touring bike? Also what are the buying habits of that type of rider? Out of the overall riding community sport-tours make up a very small percentage, so the number of people that are even considering these type of bikes is limited. Also most people that buy ST bikes hold on to them for a while, they do not flip them every year for the next best thing. So the number of units sold will slowly decrease to the extent that the FJR grabs more market share, or the potential buying base increases. There is one major factor that can offset this, which is competition. The ST space is getting very crowded.(THIS IS A GOOD THING) You have bikes like the, ST1300,FJR,k1200gt,new concourse,R1200rt,Sprint st, ECT. ECT. The point being there are many good choices for ST bikes on the market, so it will fragment the overall ST market even more. Yamaha knows this, and that is why they did the PDP. But, with the success of the PDP they may have over estimated what the true demand will be in the market place. Because the bubble of early adaptors have probably already bought their FJR and will not be buying another bike for 3-7 years. So i believe that in 2007 or 2008 we will see many FJR sitting on showroom floor, with heavy discounts, not because it is a bad bike, but because of the over saturation of the ST market. So in conclusion is the FJR market drying up? Maybe, 2007 will be a year where we can really see if that is true.
Just a different way to look at this question which i find very interesting.

OMG.. if I could have said it like this I wouldnt be in this mess. You hit the nail on the head! Good lord.. I wish I could have said this in the first place.. this was the point I wanted to make.. but of course I took offense to me being called a moron very quickly.

Thank you for posting this!

 

[automag928]

I stand behind what I have said. I stand behind the company I work for. I am not here to sell you a bike. I am standing up for myself. I think I have a right to do that

Fred - I have NO problem with you coming on here defending and explaining...actually I LIKE it! It allows consumers and sales guys, or two different people to bridge the gap, get better understanding, possibly work through things to make it better in the future...Who knows, you may have gotten that 07 AE sold to someone on here thats waiting that saw your response to the thread?!? I've seen weirder things...

What I don't approve of, is you posting on YOUR site, and then linking it back here, almost throwing it in our face. I mean what do you expect when you, the webmaster, owner, huge participant over there posts about being bashed on another board? Of course your board members are going to get your back, and post crap about the FJR guys. I've seen it soooo many times with all the boards I belong to. I'm surprised none of them have registered over here just to jump on all the bashing.

 

[automag928]

I wanted to substantiate my previous post ---

These are the comments on your board which are basically flaming piles of dog doodoo and do absolutely NADA to help anyones cause:

They're just miffed because someone implied that the motorcycle they ride isn't popular anymore.
Oh the huge manatee!

get ready for an FJR invasion....

<--- See this guy knows what I'm talking about, you guys are expecting FJR retailation on your site now....

I mean how many grown *** men does it take to look like a ******* temper tantrum party in there?

Oh, and make your introduction simple. You're representing chicago cycles when you post. I wouldn't mention, in your introduction, that you're here to flame the f@gs posting stupid **** in that thread. hahaha

First the dealer is a d-bag, then the dealer is ripping off Yamaha. Those FJR owners are just a bunch of bloddy ******s looking for an excuse to vent their stress resulting from ED-induced mid-life crises. Not worth the time IMO.

None of that is productive...hence why then need to post THAT thread here?

 

[TejasFJR]

Sure does seem like we're the ones who quickly escalated the tone on this one though. I know we all hold the FJR near and dear to our hearts, but at least to me it seems like we made it personal pretty quickly.

 

[automag928]

Sure does seem like we're the ones who quickly escalated the tone on this one though. I know we all hold the FJR near and dear to our hearts, but at least to me it seems like we made it personal pretty quickly.

Thats fine, and I AGREE with you...however, Fred could have come on here, said his piece and we probably all could have had a group hug and been happy with a great resolution...He may have earned some sales business even! I respect the fact he came on here and posted what he had to say. He seems like an honest guy, I know the position he's in being that I did IT work and sold a few mortgages in the process. By no means was I a mortgage broker but I know the field and can do a mortgage if you want. My mainstream income was always IT.

Jusst to keep this on FJR topic -- I love my FJR... :yahoo:

 

[TejasFJR]

I'm sure he would have if he had been made aware of the issue and likely posted pretty soon after finding out. All that said, we all know the FJR is the shiznit.

 

[SBNFred]

I stand behind what I have said. I stand behind the company I work for. I am not here to sell you a bike. I am standing up for myself. I think I have a right to do that

Fred - I have NO problem with you coming on here defending and explaining...actually I LIKE it! It allows consumers and sales guys, or two different people to bridge the gap, get better understanding, possibly work through things to make it better in the future...Who knows, you may have gotten that 07 AE sold to someone on here thats waiting that saw your response to the thread?!? I've seen weirder things...

What I don't approve of, is you posting on YOUR site, and then linking it back here, almost throwing it in our face. I mean what do you expect when you, the webmaster, owner, huge participant over there posts about being bashed on another board? Of course your board members are going to get your back, and post crap about the FJR guys. I've seen it soooo many times with all the boards I belong to. I'm surprised none of them have registered over here just to jump on all the bashing.

I see what your saying and do understand this. If you noticed that when I first registered I didnt read the rules and it took one of my own members to show me I had to say hello before I could post anywhere else.. hahaha

Honestly what got me the most upset is when someone started calling me a pushy sales guy.. or a moron. Honestly I have worked very hard to no be that guy. Why I took such huge offense to it. I have always tried to be the guy that is up front and helped people out on getting a great deal. Its a very fine line I have to walk to make sure you (consumer) and the dealership is happy.

SBN guys will normally stick on SBN and keep my back. We dont attack websites.. that being said you can only take what someone says on there with a grain of salt just like the same anywhere else.

I am not here to get business for Chicago Cycle. I really came on here to let you guys know I am not just some punk kid saying a blanket statement and not just another ***** sales guy. Most of this time I have been sooooo focused on not trying to be a morn for a statement but the last guy explained it best. I have said those things with just to much typing. The Sport Touring market is large.. many different bikes..

I can speak from my side of things.. and BTW.. whoever spoke about the sales guy getting 3 tickets story.. hehe Im still trying to find out what sales guy that was.. so far I am having no luck

Every month I see on websites about dealerships are bad.. etc etc.. its hard to find a good dealership you have faith in.. BTW.. i used to buy all my old Yamaha's at Woodfield cycle until my sales guy quit.. I was handled with respect. service was great and I got great deal on parts. Why I bought so many bikes from them. How did I end up at Chicago Cycle? Well long story short my old parts sales guy ended here. Got me a job. And the rest is history.