"FJR market is drying up"
- Thread starter IndianaTom
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SBNFred
Member
Well like I said I mainly came here because the whole Fred is a moron bit. As you have noticed I love the FJR1300. I still do. And I have said it many times in my past posts.. of course long winded and misspelled most of the time..
I know many members here have a dealership they love and hold true to their hearts.
But for the ones that have purchased a FJR1300 from Chicago Cycle I wanted to let them know it does have a 1 year warranty from the date of purchase. Its what the owner has told me. And yes he said it is Factory warranty.
Now that all being said since I think i repeated myself 100 times now.. lets move forward and get ready for the 2007 riding season..
I know many members here have a dealership they love and hold true to their hearts.
But for the ones that have purchased a FJR1300 from Chicago Cycle I wanted to let them know it does have a 1 year warranty from the date of purchase. Its what the owner has told me. And yes he said it is Factory warranty.
Now that all being said since I think i repeated myself 100 times now.. lets move forward and get ready for the 2007 riding season..
SBNFred
Member
Before I forget.. The PDP program with Yamaha.
Did you know Yamaha grabbed that program from there snowmobile line. They did the same thing for those units.
Chicago Cycle worked around the PDP program for one reason.. the consumer. So the consumer had the chance to touch, feel, and test ride the bike before they purchased it. Many dealerships did the same thing. Why so the consumer could see the bike before they purchased it.
This is benifiting you guys. Why would a consumer worry about a dealership working around a PDP from with Yamaha. This gives the consumer a better chance to get a better deal then paying full retail price.
Russ Haehn the owner of Chicago Cycle and Giant Motorsports told Yamaha that the PDP program was terrible. Many dealerships fought the program. What about the Warranty? Well I cant talk about any other dealership but Chicago Cycle will stand behind the FJR1300 warranty for 12 months after the date of purchase.
Now the PDP program is gone.. 2007 models dont require a deposit. Why? Because no dealer was going to put money down on a saturated market. "Sport Touring" was the kiss of death years ago. Less then 2% of the market in the UK was Sport Touring Models. Then the rush of Sport touring models. Now the market is flooded with them. Different models. We had a little over 50 FJR1300's come to us. I am not sure what our other dealership received..
Not only did FJR1300 sales slow down. ST1300's have just been at Honda Auction because Honda made to many. Guys.. most everyone that wanted a FJR1300 has one.. why? Because most of you guys are older adults that have that kind of money to buy something now then later. Your a educated buyer. With what these dealerships have done is made it simpler for you to see a FJR1300 before you purchased one.
Did you know Yamaha grabbed that program from there snowmobile line. They did the same thing for those units.
Chicago Cycle worked around the PDP program for one reason.. the consumer. So the consumer had the chance to touch, feel, and test ride the bike before they purchased it. Many dealerships did the same thing. Why so the consumer could see the bike before they purchased it.
This is benifiting you guys. Why would a consumer worry about a dealership working around a PDP from with Yamaha. This gives the consumer a better chance to get a better deal then paying full retail price.
Russ Haehn the owner of Chicago Cycle and Giant Motorsports told Yamaha that the PDP program was terrible. Many dealerships fought the program. What about the Warranty? Well I cant talk about any other dealership but Chicago Cycle will stand behind the FJR1300 warranty for 12 months after the date of purchase.
Now the PDP program is gone.. 2007 models dont require a deposit. Why? Because no dealer was going to put money down on a saturated market. "Sport Touring" was the kiss of death years ago. Less then 2% of the market in the UK was Sport Touring Models. Then the rush of Sport touring models. Now the market is flooded with them. Different models. We had a little over 50 FJR1300's come to us. I am not sure what our other dealership received..
Not only did FJR1300 sales slow down. ST1300's have just been at Honda Auction because Honda made to many. Guys.. most everyone that wanted a FJR1300 has one.. why? Because most of you guys are older adults that have that kind of money to buy something now then later. Your a educated buyer. With what these dealerships have done is made it simpler for you to see a FJR1300 before you purchased one.
Cdogman
Bad Boy
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
It was a contract between Yamaha and U.S. motorcyclists -- a contract that you (and Chicago Cycles) undermined. There were several facets to the PDP -- some for us, some for Yamaha; thanks to greedy U.S. dealers we, the riders, have little say in the matter anymore.
Interesting perspective, Fred -- do you know the difference between excrement and a popular shoe-shine substance?? :huh:
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Dammit! It's not Dog Pile Friday, yet!
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slapnpop
Rest in Peace our Forum Founder
Fred, I hope you're still reading this thread
From your site:
The reason so many FJR owners get upset about falsing the PDP order is twofold.
#1 is the warranty issue. I know what the owner of your dealership told you, and that somehow may hold true. Our collective experience has been the exact opposite in every previous case. We have had several issues with people's warranties being started when the dealer received the bike. In fact, I have not seen a post by a user to the contrary. Your comments are the first I've heard of a full warranty on a falsely-pdp'd bike.
#2 is that for the first few years, we had lots of users who's bike deliveries were late in the PDP, meanwhile mega-dealers like Chicago cycle had bikes on the floor with no customer. Even though falsing the PDP could be construed as good for your customer, it just makes other people who followed Yamaha's protocol wait longer.
I personally have no horse in this race. I just wanted you to know why people get upset about it, because we HAVE had dealers lie to us in the past about these issues.
From your site:
Most have us have dis-liked the PDP from the beginning. I bought a used '03 rather than waiting on the '04 PDP.
The reason so many FJR owners get upset about falsing the PDP order is twofold.
#1 is the warranty issue. I know what the owner of your dealership told you, and that somehow may hold true. Our collective experience has been the exact opposite in every previous case. We have had several issues with people's warranties being started when the dealer received the bike. In fact, I have not seen a post by a user to the contrary. Your comments are the first I've heard of a full warranty on a falsely-pdp'd bike.
#2 is that for the first few years, we had lots of users who's bike deliveries were late in the PDP, meanwhile mega-dealers like Chicago cycle had bikes on the floor with no customer. Even though falsing the PDP could be construed as good for your customer, it just makes other people who followed Yamaha's protocol wait longer.
I personally have no horse in this race. I just wanted you to know why people get upset about it, because we HAVE had dealers lie to us in the past about these issues.
Now, what was that about generic claims about salesmen?
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SBNFred
Member
I can understand people being upset for that reason. But like you said you guys didnt like the program either. Sure there are some that ran into not getting there bike. But at the same time there is a lot of customers that loved the idea that we put the $500 down right away. We did it for our customers.
As far as other dealers accepting the warranty.. well we stand behind the product we stand. And I can see why people would get upset if they didnt have a warranty on there bike. The great thing about the FJR1300.. Its bullet proof. Not many things go wrong with it.
You guys have been honestly a lot of fun to talk with. I learned some things and like to listen to consumers. Plus being a sportbike rider myself it helps keeping perspective on both sides.
You know what gets me. I have 20 2006 Silver AE's in stock right now. I cant give the things away. The owner is willing to take a loss of 11,800 for the bike. No other fee's. No setup.. no freight.. just tax and 57.33 for the title. I figured with all the reviews that bike would have done very well.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Holy CRAP! Is this a real offer? Dang-it, man, I'll take the whole lot!!!! $22,000 and change for 20 bikes is the deal of the century!
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madmike2
Shtirrenuppenmeister
Et ain'a gonna werk. We's all up to figgerin' yer tricks, TWN. En bee'-sides, them thar merdersickles cain't be registered en Kaliforney, ennyhow!
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
So Fred, are you TRULY selling a NEW 07 FJR 1300 for $10,499 Out the door? If sooo.....
And the warranty thing just to chime in.
Fred- YOU are the CONSUMER. YOU go to Chicago Cycles and get a GREAT deal on a PDP FJR. You buy the bike in December 06 off the floor. You ride your bike back home to Florida where all the dealers wanted MSRP + freight,+ setup,+ etc. You saved $big$ by buying from Chicago Cycles. November 07 rolls around and several SS1ks and BBGs later you have 16,000+ on the clock and have a tranny seal blow out and it fries a gear or two (insert BMW here). You are lucky enough to own the one FJR that is not bulletproof. YOU take it to your local dealer for warranty work. The dealer tells you the FACTORY warranty expired in June, BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YAMAHA HAS IT ON RECORD AS BEING DELIVERED TO THE PURCHASER. You Call Chicago Cycles and they say they will fix the bike gratis for you because it is still covered under the DEALER warranty. Now to fix the bike you have to pay to transport the bike to Chicago, Fly back home (this is not a 2 hour fix) and the fly back to get your bike. Or get a Hotel if they can fix you the next day with all the parts needed in stock. Not to mention time off work or away from the family
You still don't understand why someone gets upset after the previous replys? Then the moron statement would apply.
If you don't think someone will travel to save big $, Call D&H cycles in Culman, Al. They have a WALL of thank you letters from ALL over the US. FL, Washington state, Oregon, New York, etc.
And the warranty thing just to chime in.
Fred- YOU are the CONSUMER. YOU go to Chicago Cycles and get a GREAT deal on a PDP FJR. You buy the bike in December 06 off the floor. You ride your bike back home to Florida where all the dealers wanted MSRP + freight,+ setup,+ etc. You saved $big$ by buying from Chicago Cycles. November 07 rolls around and several SS1ks and BBGs later you have 16,000+ on the clock and have a tranny seal blow out and it fries a gear or two (insert BMW here). You are lucky enough to own the one FJR that is not bulletproof. YOU take it to your local dealer for warranty work. The dealer tells you the FACTORY warranty expired in June, BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YAMAHA HAS IT ON RECORD AS BEING DELIVERED TO THE PURCHASER. You Call Chicago Cycles and they say they will fix the bike gratis for you because it is still covered under the DEALER warranty. Now to fix the bike you have to pay to transport the bike to Chicago, Fly back home (this is not a 2 hour fix) and the fly back to get your bike. Or get a Hotel if they can fix you the next day with all the parts needed in stock. Not to mention time off work or away from the family
You still don't understand why someone gets upset after the previous replys? Then the moron statement would apply.
If you don't think someone will travel to save big $, Call D&H cycles in Culman, Al. They have a WALL of thank you letters from ALL over the US. FL, Washington state, Oregon, New York, etc.
sorry for not being clear about it. i didn't give a rats ass about a personal opinion on sales interest in one dealership. i didn't even respond until you hit the site with a shotgun pattern of comments about how your dealership tried to "work" the PdP system. If a franchise dealership is willing the violate the terms of the PdP defined by the Mfgr, what else will they do?
go back and read the replies again. a single-shop warranty means jack to people who ride touring bikes. what will the dealership do when someone breaks down in AZ, NV, TX, FL, or anywhere other than a short tow from their shop? Will they pay another Yamaha dealership back for out-of-warranty repairs needed to get back on the road? it impacts when any YES contract has to be bought (within the first 12 months of the OEM contract - how many of your customers missed that oportunity because they thought they had a factory warranty for 12 months from the date of delivery). it also takes coverage off the end of a YES for any time between delivery to the dealership and purchase by the customer.
Bottom line is that the FJR community has spent the last 4 years wishing that the PdP didn't exist while, at the same time, wanting to PUKE when we read about any owner that had been deceived into thinking they were buying a floor model from a dealership who cheated the system and used false PdP buyers' names. All this did was screw every other FJR buyer who worked within the PdP system; causing delays to their deliveries.
All the rest of the issues can fall by the wayside. Bottom line is that a dealership violated the terms of the PdP with Yamaha. It then puts their ethics in question everywhere else, too. Right or wrong. It's simply the way it is. As someone pointed out elsewhere it could very well be that the owner hard sold the sales people that "working around" or "bypassing" the PdP was a good thing for the impusle buying customer. Bottom line is that the terms of the PdP were well defined the process was explained to dealers. Filling out forms and signing them in under false pretenses is simply fraud and a lie; questionable ethics. No matter how you sugar coat it, there was a process Yamaha established. Dealers could participate or not. To work around the system gives the dealership a bad name.
My guess is that Mr Salesguy doesn't know that using the PdP correctly gained a lot of owners some killer, under-MSRP deals going back to the first wave in late 2002 and continuing through the final PdP year. Many dealers were out there showing that you could get a great price (with no hidden costs) without cheating the system. Not unlike the sales guy who tried to pitch me an RCA Video Disk system years ago, the RCA rep explained that this was the tech of the future and that lasers would die out from lack of support. He believed what his rep told him and passed it on to me to filter through my own understanding of the real world situation. It wasn't the sales guy's fault for taking the hook.
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bramfrank
BramFrank
You REALLY gonna give 'em away? If so, the first one's mine - I'll have to arrange shipping though. You'll have a credit card when I get your contact details. Maybe I'll pay you storage and ride it up when it warms up in about 8 weeks . . . and I have to arrange export documentation, which means a letter of certification from Yamaha that the recalls have been done.
PM me with details
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Don't let them charge you TT&L either, since you're from out of state, they waive that and give you a Certificate of Origin and a Bill of Sale. You then deal with TT&L in your home state.
tripletango
Well-known member
It is simply a matter of choice. The FJR was the first really comfortable ST bike out there. Now there are many. In order for the FJR to survive it needs to meet the competition head on and improve the bike so it wins those comparos again!!! Been getting beat up lately and that not just the French version of the AE 
And this is before the Concours 14 gets here :dribble:
And this is before the Concours 14 gets here :dribble:
TejasFJR
Well-known member
The FJR set a definate slant in the sport direction when it was introduced, but the new Connie is raising the ante. I hope Yamaha responds well to the competition.
Randy
Well-known member
It may have benefitted the 2006 buyers, but, what does it do for the 2007 buyers? I haven't heard you say that the original poster was incorrect in that you 'won't be getting any 07As because the FJR market is drying up'. Where is the benefit for the 2007 buyer if you don't have one on your floor to see/feel/touch? If you don't have any in, then you don't give buyers a chance to buy and you don't give your salesmen a chance to sell. With a shop of that size, it surprises me that you wouldn't get 1 to put on the floor.
I understand you made a projected sales estimate when the 06s were ordered. Perhaps it was a bit agressive (50, I beleive) and perhaps that is what leads you to believe the market is drying up?
As others have said, I applaud you for coming in to defend your name and reputation.
Perhaps your comment about the market drying up can be substantiated by posting the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 sales figures in the US. Does that data exist? Another thing I would like to see, but, understand the data will never exist, is how many 2006 buyers bought through the PDP process and how many bought one preordered from the dealer.
This may be a bit in left field, but, does the possibility exist that the value of the FJR on the used market was dropped as a result of dealers oversaturating the market by overbuying based on projected sales estimates and, in an effort to clear them from inventory, blow them out at outragous prices?
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Fred, thanks for having the balls to stock FJRs
while Yamaha was persisting with there silly
sales program. When I called (from out of state)
to inquire about a purchase (seen your ad in a
local paper). After 2 minutes on the phone with
one of your jerk salesboys, no way would I have
bought there.
while Yamaha was persisting with there silly
sales program. When I called (from out of state)
to inquire about a purchase (seen your ad in a
local paper). After 2 minutes on the phone with
one of your jerk salesboys, no way would I have
bought there.
Somebody pass the popcorn for Pete's sake!
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