FJRF009.0: Ground Spider Research

[Ignacio]

e

I think it's outrageous that owners have had to modify/add to the wiring harness to make it viable for the long term.

Oh, so you're talking about the ground spider issue then.

Moving to the correct place for this discussion then.

And my answer then to your original question is that I think you, the thread starter, and others are trying futilly to make this into some moral issue where you're trying to shame Yamaha into doing something when you still haven't rallied enough troops to report the issue to NHTSA.

Rhetoric with inflammatory thread titles and size 5 bolded fonts don't work that well in my experience. In fact, I think they turn companies off and make them lawyer-up unnecessarily.

Actually doing the homework, characterizing the issue, and reporting the issue objectively work far better. Sugar vs. honey.

It may also be true that supplying what seems to be such an effective after-market alternative may make Yamaha slower to respond, but I doubt that's true of NHTSA. What have you and the affected group actually done with NHTSA?

My $0.02.

 

[bramfrank]

IMHO the key is that the manufacturers will only listen to the NHTSA and Transport Canada.

Given that (as I wrote) probably only about 10% of FJR owners come here with any regularity and looking at the number of reported failures, the reality is likely that the majority of the FJR riding public has no idea that thei machines are potential death traps for reasons beyond the usual 'it's dangerous to ride a bike' excuse.

And, like I plead; If your S4 decides to shut the bike down while you are passing someone on a relatively busy 2 lane road you are not going to be able to merge back into traffic and will likely come to an unreasonably early end.

That makes it a safety issue.

And the mandate of the NHTSA is to make certain that ALL discovered safety issues are resolved by the manufacturer - he is not allowed to leave defective product with dangerous defects out on the road, one reason why your dealer wouldn't let you ride your bike home until the work was done after the ignition switch recall was issued - but just the day before you'd have been laughed out of the shop with the excuse that 'it is all in your mind'.

Canada seems to be taking this seriously. The US seems not to be quite so driven - I know that if I was a US FJR riding citizen I would be asking the NHTSA what they are doing to earn their salaries, considering how slowly they are acting.

Large Bolded text may not spur people into action but, like my very bright modulated brake lights and HID driving lights, the excuse that "I didn't see him/it' simply cannot be believably applied.

SO GET OUT THERE AND CONTACT YOUR NHTSA OFFICE AND ASK THEM WHAT THEY"RE DOING FOR YOU.

 

[Harald]

I'm a spider bite victim and have filed with the NHTSA.

Due to Bamfranks persistant large type-font calls for calling the NHTSA, I decided to call them to see what the status is on my report. I was told that nothing would be done based on my single report - what they looks for is a large enough quantity of similar reports.

So if you've been bit by a spider and haven't filed yet,

GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND FILE ! WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV

 

[ffejtable]

I'm a spider bite victim and have filed with the NHTSA.

Due to Bamfranks persistant large type-font calls for calling the NHTSA, I decided to call them to see what the status is on my report. I was told that nothing would be done based on my single report - what they looks for is a large enough quantity of similar reports.

So if you've been bit by a spider and haven't filed yet,

GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND FILE ! WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV

What number did you call? (whoops, when I went back to look for my confirmation number, it lists the phone number in that email -- By phone: 1-888-327-4236 8:00AM to 10:00PM Monday-Friday)

Perhaps NHTSA haven't been able to correlate the reported issues as all being the same issue, so lets help them by getting a list of all the submissions. I'll start by adding my own..

Your Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10328649

 

[MartyA]

My Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10347411

 

[64Y80]

What's the ratio of people who have a spider problem vs those that have not had a problem?

 

[bramfrank]

If you check the site you'll find that the first explanation we ever got was from a member who is also a Yamaha tech in Atlanta who indicated that they were seeing lots of machines starting to come in with the problem . . . .

I believe that there were roughly 12,000 Gen-II bikes sold during the period and that perhaps 10% of owners actually show up here from time to time. We have more than 190 responses to the poll. but I know that some of these were posted by people who responded to the poll first, then realised it was only for owners who had suffered the failure. So lets be conservative and assume that 175 of the poll responses are valid.

175/1200 = 14.5% TO DATE And that is a VERY significant percentage.

 

[ffejtable]

If you check the site you'll find that the first explanation we ever got was from a member who is also a Yamaha tech in Atlanta who indicated that they were seeing lots of machines starting to come in with the problem . . . .

I believe that there were roughly 12,000 Gen-II bikes sold during the period and that perhaps 10% of owners actually show up here from time to time. We have more than 190 responses to the poll. but I know that some of these were posted by people who responded to the poll first, then realised it was only for owners who had suffered the failure. So lets be conservative and assume that 175 of the poll responses are valid.

175/1200 = 14.5% TO DATE And that is a VERY significant percentage.

*BUMP* I still need more case/incident numbers. If I am going to follow up with NHTSA on this issue, and there truly have been 175 incidents of this happening, and being reported here then I am going to need a bit more than 3 numbers to give them.

If only 10% of FJR owners actually visit this site, then thats 90% of owners that know nothing about this problem and are at risk. That's very disturbing. A recall is the only way to make sure owners are aware of the issue. Not only for their own personal safety, but for the financial reasons as well. I had to shell out about $475 out of my own pocket for towing expenses that Yamaha failed to cover.

 

[bramfrank]

I took the time to pick through the database - some of the reports are real interesting, I must say. But there could well be more, since I found a whole bunch of reports on issues with Yamaha ATVs filed in the database under FJR1300 and FJ13 - but this took me enough time and I'm not about to scan their entire database looking for misfiled reports.

For all of the people who said they had (or would) file reports there are all of 22 on the NHTSA web site. Interesting that there are NO 2008 models at all. They didn't have details on whether the bikes were AEs or not after 2007

Having said that, be it known that Toyota implemented an 800,000 unit recall based on 4 reports and without any proof that there was a problem . . .

Here is the list as of this morning:

2006 AE 10340268 15-Jun-10

2006 AE 10310359 10-Mar-08

2006 AE 10300368 05-Jun-09

2006 AE 10299664 09-Jan-10

2006 AE 10298026 24-Apr-09

2006 A 10358153 25-Sep-10

2006 A 10345209 17-Jul-10

2006 A 10341924 07-Jul-10

2006 A 10340971 19-Jun-10

2006 A 10302106 20-Apr-09

2006 A 10298909 15-Jul-08

2006 A 10298656 03-Jan-10

2006 A 10298155 24-Mar-09

2006 A 10291767 10-Nov-09

2007 10362226 13-Oct-10

2007 10360312 20-Sep-10

2007 10349031 22-Jul-10

2007 10347411 01-Aug-10

2007 10298043 21-Dec-09

2009 10336786 27-May-10

2009 10328649 02-May-10

2009 10290823 29-Oct-09

The dates are those of the reported failures.

As of about a month ago the Canadians had six reports on file. Using simple logic and based on the fact that there should be ten times as many FJRs in the US than there are in Canada I'D HAVE EXTECTED TO SEE ATLEAST SIXTY (60) IN THE DATABASE - and even that wouldn;t represent anywhere near the total number of affected biles owned by forum members, let alone the public at large.

And yes, one of the key points I have been harping about is that 90% of the owners have no idea that their machines can fail in this manner - not that it'd make a big difference if it happened while passing someone on a busy 2 lane highway with oncoming traffic and no left side shoulder . . . and even then.

You want it dealt with? You have to file a report. Otherwise they will continue to claim that it doesn't happen.

 

[Harald]

Here is the list as of this morning:

2006 AE 10340268 15-Jun-10

2006 AE 10310359 10-Mar-08

2006 AE 10300368 05-Jun-09

2006 AE 10299664 09-Jan-10

2006 AE 10298026 24-Apr-09

2006 A 10358153 25-Sep-10

2006 A 10345209 17-Jul-10

2006 A 10341924 07-Jul-10

2006 A 10340971 19-Jun-10

2006 A 10302106 20-Apr-09

2006 A 10298909 15-Jul-08

2006 A 10298656 03-Jan-10

2006 A 10298155 24-Mar-09

2006 A 10291767 10-Nov-09

2007 10362226 13-Oct-10

2007 10360312 20-Sep-10

2007 10349031 22-Jul-10

2007 10347411 01-Aug-10

2007 10298043 21-Dec-09

2009 10336786 27-May-10

2009 10328649 02-May-10

2009 10290823 29-Oct-09

I see that mine is on the list.

 

[bramfrank]

I scrolled through a few pages of this and found where at l;east two members with '08s were impacted - roadrunner II and Grit - neither seems to have posted to the NHTSA, unfortunately. There are certainly more. It would be nice if the system coud give us a list of all of the members who answered thepoll because THEY are the people who should be filing complaints.

 

[ffejtable]

I scrolled through a few pages of this and found where two members with '08s were impacted - roadrunner II and Grit - neither seems to have posted to the NHTSA, unfortunately. There are certainly more. It would be nice if the system coud give us a list of all of the members who answered thepoll because THEY are the people who should be filing complaints.

Hey thanks for the list above.. Wasnt aware that we could search like you did.. I will research this further and compile a list and contact NHTSA on this.

 

[El Cajone]

......As of about a month ago the Canadians had six reports on file.....

Hey Bram,

Didn't Transport Canada give Yama Canada a deadline to report back a few weeks ago with a response to their initial inquiry? Have you heard anything about that?

 

[bramfrank]

They did their original report, which the inspector found 'lacking' and sent them back to the drawing board. I have them pencilled in for a followup call on the first week of November.

 

[El Cajone]

They did their original report, which the inspector found 'lacking' and sent them back to the drawing board. I have them pencilled in for a followup call on the first week of November.

Looks like the inspector is doing his job.....so, there's some good news in that at least.

 

[Grit]

I did file mine.

But honestly, I enjoy riding too much to wait for it to happen again. It was disturbing.

And working with the local Yamaha dealer was something I don't want to do again either.

The replacement harness was the same part number.

I lost confidence in Yamaha, so I traded it in on a non-Yamaha as soon as it was fixed.

I sure hope they come through for you guys,

Grit

 

[dbx]

And, like I plead; If your S4 decides to shut the bike down while you are passing someone on a relatively busy 2 lane road you are not going to be able to merge back into traffic and will likely come to an unreasonably early end.

That makes it a safety issue.

Safety issue, indeed, but one of the things that disturbs me is if the scenario above actually happens and the rider is killed, who would ever link it back to this issue? I don't think it would happen, unfortunately.

 

[JamesK]

I did file mine.

But honestly, I enjoy riding too much to wait for it to happen again. It was disturbing.

And working with the local Yamaha dealer was something I don't want to do again either.

The replacement harness was the same part number.

I lost confidence in Yamaha, so I traded it in on a non-Yamaha as soon as it was fixed.

I sure hope they come through for you guys,

Grit

I hope your next/new bike is perfect, but I certainly doubt it. Most bikes even the over priced and over hyped BMW have critical issues many of which can be easily and permanently fixed. Take for example the problem (not to mention the final drive issues) with the BMW K1200LT, where the plastic fuel petcocks would tend to break off, spewing gas all over the engine and rider's legs, and there are plenty more examples with nearly every make and model...

The "fix" for the GenII spider problem is readily available now thanks to the great work done by a number of forum members which permanently eradicates this problem. Actually there are now two plug-and-play solutions available.

I've put on over 35k miles on my GenII since doing the "manual" version of this fix (before the plug-and-play solutions were available) with zero problems and none expected with this fix in place. The FJR is a great platform, which, like most bikes has teething issues, IMHO as long as there is a simple and inexpensive fix I'm just fine with it.

 

[06Feejer]

I had the grounding snafu recently on my 06 FJR1300A. 37,500 mi

Just symtec heated grips, airhorn and SAE for GPS installed

Typical dash indicator lights reported, flashing fuel meter, turn signal indicators stuck on, high beam, etc. No juice to starter

Got it towed $110 to dealer, they talked to Mamma Yamma who in turn knew right away what it was but said they only have a few reports of this happening. They wanted dealer to send them pix of fried ground which they did. Said Yamaha USA will ship pix and info to Yamaha Japan and we will see what happens next. I filed with NHTSA and report # is 10362995

I should mention there were 39 reports at NHTSA in front of mine on this issue as of 10/30/2010.

It appears about 200 guys have filed on this poll??? WOW and I would imagine that is only a FRACTION of the bikes this has happened to.

Yamaha NEEDS to step up to the plate before somebody gets killed. Its safety recall time.

BTW, my dealer soldered wires together and grounded them. Said the bike started up but they were trying to figure if Yamaha would want to replace the entire wiring harness or not.

 

[bramfrank]

Actually, there were 38 reports on various subjects ahead of yours for your year and model - if you actually read the text of them you will find that many of them were for the ignition switch issue. Other were for such issues as 'prone to stalling because the idle was too low', 'the mirrors don't stick out enough' and so on. Someone complained about the mileage he got from his tires.

I did the count earlier this week by actually selecting each year and each model (for the '06 and '07 years, where they actually had separate entries) and read them - so unless people have been prolific in the last couple of days, your report will be number 23 on the topic.

Thanks for filing.