Fork maintenance failure

[BackintheSaddle]

Looks like Forum member extrememarine is parting out a 2009 on the "For Sale" page. He is not selling his upgraded forks but he indicates that he may end up with a spare set of forks once he swaps out those on his replacement bike. Probably worth a look-see and a PM.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Forgive my ignorance but have you considered contacting one of the better suspension re-builders? GP, Traxxion, or some of the others? Is it possible they might have ideas, parts, a cheaper or more effective fix? Surely they must have seen pretty much anything that could possibly go wrong inside a set of forks by now.

You might consider losing some weight. You have probably overloaded your suspension with your morbidly obese carcass. Since I know you stand about 6 foot 6...

 

[gixxerjasen]

Looks like Forum member extrememarine is parting out a 2009 on the "For Sale" page. He is not selling his upgraded forks but he indicates that he may end up with a spare set of forks once he swaps out those on his replacement bike. Probably worth a look-see and a PM.

Thanks for pointing that out but I'm one step ahead of you. I ran a search (Gasp! Who does that?) and found he's like the only one parting out a Gen II. I shot him a PM earlier this afternoon.

Forgive my ignorance but have you considered contacting one of the better suspension re-builders? GP, Traxxion, or some of the others? Is it possible they might have ideas, parts, a cheaper or more effective fix? Surely they must have seen pretty much anything that could possibly go wrong inside a set of forks by now.

I may give them a ring. I'm telling you though, this sucker is stuck and stuck bad. And the guy working on them comes highly recommended among the TWTex group. They might have some parts laying around they can sell but I'm not holding my breath.

You might consider losing some weight. You have probably overloaded your suspension with your morbidly obese carcass. Since I know you stand about 6 foot 6...

Yea, springing for new forks on my NBA salary should be easy, right?

 

[Redfish Hunter]

If it makes you feel any better I just spent $665 for a new ECU on my Honda. I was soooo close to trading it in on a 2014 FJR. Mrs. Redfish even gave her approval. When they come out and I get to see what that color looks like in person...

At any rate, it is always difficult to justify the money spent on our motorcycles. I hope this works out for you. You also mentioned you were moving in a couple months. Where are you going?

 

[extrememarine]

Sorry, forks from my '09 went to the PNW crew along with the motor, final drive, and some parts some time ago.

Looks like Forum member extrememarine is parting out a 2009 on the "For Sale" page. He is not selling his upgraded forks but he indicates that he may end up with a spare set of forks once he swaps out those on his replacement bike. Probably worth a look-see and a PM.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Thanks EM for the update.

RH, just moving within town. We were hoping to stay in our rental home one more year and then be in a position to buy, but our landlord is moving back into town and wants to move back to his old house now, so we'll be looking in this or one of the surrounding towns for the time being.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Some pic's of the two upper bushing on my GenII forks as promised earlier.

It seems as though the lower bushing takes the most abuse. There doesn't seem to be any wear on the upper

two bushing on the inside. Least I couldn't see any. what that all means I will leave to the friction theorist.

good night all

Dave

 

[900gc]

I will try and get some pic's of the inner side of the busings. I keep everything that comes off or out of my bike. Don't ask me why.
Dave

Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and....keep collecting stuff. It's OK Dave, a lot of us are members of the club. I'm still trying to figure out why on earth am I holding on to worn out brake pads from 8 years ago. Surely I'll need sintered material for something some day!

 

[900gc]

(Sigh) I cannot believe that none of you understand the reasoning behind the engineering change. Once again, I will have to set you all straight on this.
Yamaha designed the original FJR as a SPORT-tourer. A big sportbike with luggage carrying ability. It was intended to be ridden and played with in a lively sporty manner. Lots of wheelies, intense cornering and high speed riding. The fork damping was calibrated for high speed. The forks were expected to do a lot of flexing and the extra bushings would create stiction. Therefore, only two bushings were utilized.

The 2nd Gen was designed more as a Gentleman's Sport-Tourer. Longer swingarm, and a softer ride. The suspension calibration was aimed at the older more relaxed crowd, the ones who were actually able to afford this bike. The damping needed to be set up for high and low speed and fork flex was not supposed to be an issue. The use of 3 bushings would not create more stiction with the more relaxed riding style that Yamaha was expecting to see from FJR riders.

Of course all of that I just typed is 100% Pure BullShit. Don't believe any of it. I made it all up on the spot. But, looking back and reading it now, it almost makes sense.

None of which fixes our friend Jasen's problem. I know what will fix it though. The solution comes in Candy Red and will be at your friendly neighborhood Yamaha dealer very soon.

Oh, I almost forgot. Hugs and kisses my friends!

Oh crud. I've been riding my bike way outside it's Gen II fork design parameters! Dang it!

 

[Fred W]

Some pic's of the two upper bushing on my GenII forks as promised earlier.

It seems as though the lower bushing takes the most abuse. There doesn't seem to be any wear on the upper

two bushing on the inside. Least I couldn't see any. what that all means I will leave to the friction theorist.

good night all

Dave

Hmmm... more of that inarguable, empirical evidence.

It appears that the upper and middle bushing are essentially unscathed while the lower is FUBAR. And this was after how many miles, Dave?

I would guess that the uppers are in such good shape because they are riding on the mirror finish of the inner fork tubes. I'd also guess (contrary to my own position about removal) that they benefitted by there being two of them to split the support duties.

The lower bushing is sliding on the inside bore surface of the lower fork legs, which is (probably) more porous and less microscopically smooth than the polished inner tubes, so naturally it would wear the teflon layer off faster.

This is not in keeping with what I had seen from other 2nd gen owners who had all of their bushings knackered at low mileages. Sort of shoots a big hole in my 2 bushings is better than 3 hypothesis.

 

[FJR Flyer]

Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:48 AM

MCRIDER007, on 01 Oct 2013 - 19:08, said:

Fred, for the record, I totally reject your complete rejection of my flex theory but you are correct that RaceTech does not install the middle bushing. I saw that with my own eyes when I helped disassemble a set of forks at the last tech day. However, the owner of those forks was rather pissed at RaceTech since he said he was charged for the middle bushing.

Hmmmm......I had the local RaceTech rep do my forks about a year and a half back, new springs, gold valves, bushings and seals. He, too, charged me for the middle bushings. Now I'm wondering if they were installed. He did say that the old bushings are pretty much destroyed during removal.

Now, if they weren't installed, is that a good thing or bad thing. Whichever, it feels a lot better than the OEM internals.

Something to be said for old school damper rod forks.  At least for low tech garage maintenance.  I rebuilt the forks on my FJ without any issues.  Of course, you pay the price when you want the suspension to actually work well.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Just think, if you didn't do the wrenching yourself you wouldn't find out about all these cool things.

Dave

 

[gixxerjasen]

Just think, if you didn't do the wrenching yourself you wouldn't find out about all these cool things.
Dave

Not very reassuring, but I guess I'll get new forks, and then when it's time for maintenance I'll just hop on the bike and ride to one of those famous PNW Tech days. At least I'll get to ride, right?

 

[MCRIDER007]

The lower bushing is sliding on the inside bore surface of the lower fork legs, which is (probably) more porous and less microscopically smooth than the polished inner tubes, so naturally it would wear the teflon layer off faster.

This is not in keeping with what I had seen from other 2nd gen owners who had all of their bushings knackered at low mileages. Sort of shoots a big hole in my 2 bushings is better than 3 hypothesis.

My experience to date is that the upper bushings are always in good shape, doesn't matter if it is an GEN1 or GEN2, but the GEN2s are definitely beat up more on the outside by the time they are removed. I'm wondering if the real cause of the quicker wear of the GEN2 lower bushings is that the inner bore surface of the fork legs is not machined as smooth as the GEN1s and subsequent lower bushings will last longer after the first bushing smooths out the surface. I should add that the last time I was at GP Suspension they said the lower bushing on every GEN2 they had serviced showed significant wear irregardless of mileage, including one with only 400 miles, so it appeared the wear was immediate.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Hmmmm......I had the local RaceTech rep do my forks about a year and a half back, new springs, gold valves, bushings and seals. He, too, charged me for the middle bushings. Now I'm wondering if they were installed. He did say that the old bushings are pretty much destroyed during removal.
Now, if they weren't installed, is that a good thing or bad thing. Whichever, it feels a lot better than the OEM internals

I think the forks I was referring to were serviced by RaceTech's main office in California but I would guess that your local RaceTech rep probably received guidance from that office not to install the middle bushing. You probably would not be able to tell a difference unless you could compare your bike to another GEN2 with the same RaceTech internals and even then the changes would only be noticeable under riding conditions that was putting a lot of stress on the forks.

 

[Fred W]

Interesting.

Now you are going to make me look at my old bushings. Yes I too am a packrat parts saver...

So here is my empirical evidence:

These are the bushings that I removed from my 1st gen forks earlier this year after 75k miles. The teflon surfaces on these bushings (inside surface of the narrower upper bushings and outside surface of the wider lower bushings) are still perfectly intact and serviceable.

I kept the bushings as spares because I noticed that they looked almost as good as the new ones did. And, FWIW one set (top and bottom bushing) were removed from one of the fork legs and then reinstalled once, and used for a few more months when I found that I was missing some parts for the GP valve upgrade while I was waiting for the missing parts.

Also FWIW, those oil seals still work great when removed. I replaced these parts proactively, because of the mileage. In retrospect they could have gone a lot further.

 

[MCRIDER007]

That is a remarkable lack of wear for 75K miles, I'm guessing you changed your fork oil on a frequent basis.

 

[Fred W]

No, not crazy often. Every 25k miles or so.

And you may also recall that my inner fork legs are slightly tweaked after smashing into a deer at about 40k miles.

 

[MCRIDER007]

No, not crazy often. Every 25k miles or so.
And you may also recall that my inner fork legs are slightly tweaked after smashing into a deer at about 40k miles.

Surprising, I had more wear on my 05 at 20K when GPSuspension rebuilt my forks.

 

[Fred W]

Well, here is one thing that may be different: The forks had their first "overhaul" during the tenure of the bike's prior owner. At that time he replaced the stock springs with much stiffer Sonic straight wound springs, replaced the suspension fluid, but did nothing else to them.

Other than the springs they were completely stock up until almost >75k miles. I've been using Motul Light 5W suspension fluid, FWIW. Not particularly expensive either.