Going to the Dark Side

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WC - I know it's not your bag
No, it's not, I've always thought it was beyond dumb as a practice, but I admit I thought all your initial research was mighty interesting.

just don't quite know why you are on such a mission all of a sudden?
This is the reason:

split.jpg


See any dents anywhere near the crack? I don't. So if a dent didn't contribute.... hmmm....

I fully realize all you Cheapsiders don't want to acknowledge this, I realize it runs counter to all the effort, money and time that went into the CT experiment.... but we do have this little issue that there has never, ever been a reported cracked FJR1300 rim until a Darksider suffered one. Yep, I realize this is hardly statistically significant. But I think I'll go ahead and err on the side of statistics that have produced 0.0 cracked rims over the past bazillion miles, as opposed to the side that managed to somehow produce a cracked rim. :)

I don't believe you've actually taken a ride on a CT equipped bike
How about we fix that next Friday, then? ;) I'll email you, brother...

If you're that concerned about the dangers of CT use, just pull the plug on the whole thread and delete it completely.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no...... no way! This thread is staying! :lol: And not just for the entertainment value - which is significant, by the way - but also to keep around these photos on page 106. ;)

 
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<sigh> Not big on reading comprehension, eh? I didn't even suggest you can't post. I simply said you didn't have anything to say, so you might as well stop posting here. Something you still haven't figured out. Post away. We have lots of post whores on this forum, no problem with more. :thumbsup:
No, I think my reading comprehension is just fine. Your post said this:

So move on and stop posting in this thread.
Don't know how that could be any clearer or any more inconsistent with your reply, unless you're now going to split hairs over "can't post", "may not post" and "should not post", when I simply said that I was going to be the one making those decisions rather than have you tell me what to do.

And thanks for repeating the condescension in an effort to explain that you didn't say what you clearly did say. Jeeze, you gave me grief for posting a perspective that you said has previously been stated in this 112 page thread, but you won't even scroll up the same page to check on what you actually said two hours earlier? :lol:

BTW, the forum member I was replying to is a gynecologist, IIRC. Perhaps he could prescribe something for whatever it is that is your problem today?

It's all good -- I'm glad the CT works for you. :)

 
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Seriously. Why are they not putting car tires on the front?

edit....

I'll pay $250.....

Somebody'll do it...

It'll be a youtube hit.

Come on crazy bastages....

I jus wanna watch...
I'll add $100.00

That's $350.00 - which should really appeal to the frugal nature of the Cheapsider - to slap a CT on the front and show us the wondrous longevity. As it is now with proper tire, many get twice the mileage on the front that they do the rear. So you oughta get close to 100,000 miles from that front CT!

:lol:

edit: to qualify for the $350.00 in this R&D exercise, you must mount the CT on your two-wheeled FJR..... you can not mount it using the sidecar configuration as seen below:

lbs_boxer_FJR-1300-BOB-001.jpg
Yes.

 
Here is the content of the Private Message that Papa Chuy Viejo sent to Bustanut joker: The message was entitled - Bust, Your Chosen People Need You!

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=112537&st=2240 Barry Bro', There are times in the course of human historical events when a brave man steps forth from the crowd and blazes a fiery path that all will follow.

When the USA needed an Astronaut, Neil Armstrong stepped up! When Osama bin Laden needed killing, Seal Team 6 did the job. When Stooges Larry and Moe needed that third Stooge, Curly Joe was there ready to deliver that custard pie to the face! When America needed tacky, we got Snooki!

Well Bustanut joker, you are our Curly Stooge; we, your faithful admirers are strongly standing by waiting for you to deliver. Arkie Goober rushes and that longhaired guy Warchild have issued a challenge I know you are tough enough to never ignore: In their own words they said there is no one bat shit goofy and seriously fucking demented enough to undertake running a car tire on the front of an FJR. I proudly stated that I both knew and admired just such a Whacky Bastard: You!

As an added incentive and a justifiable reward: We are starting a fund for you, if you can run a car tire on the front of your FJR for 500 miles, we are also buying you fifty minutes of sexual pleasure with your fellow car tire gal pal here. We have no idea what you will do with the extra 45 minutes, but we are some very generous sons of bitches here on the FJR Forum!

Cartire.jpg


 
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We have no idea what you will do with the extra 49 minutes and 59 seconds....
Fixed. ;) :lol:

I have no doubt - no doubt whatsoever - that a couple Cheapsiders have already begun researching car tires that approach a 120/70-17... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 
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Bust? A car tire on the front? Does he even ride his FJR? How long will it take him to ride 500 miles? I would like to see the results of the experiment before my lifetime is over.

 
But hopefully these speculations will give a new forum member pause about this CT silliness.
Lets remember that this thread has always been about sharing information so people can make an informed choice to do this, or not. "Silliness" describes a lot of the posts in this thread. :rolleyes: The real value is with the first hand experiences shared here, which includes Doug's tire damage from running on a flat tire and the crack, which can't be shown to be a result of CT use, or a meaningless event that had nothing to do with CT use. The individual readers are left to make that assumption on their own, lacking further information, testing or developments.
I'm not a darksider, but I play one on TV. Actually I should say I'm not a darksider yet. I do plan to try a CT when my supply of PR2s runs out.

This discussion reminds me of one that occurred on a Honda Magna forum. In 1983 when the Magna came out, it had bias-ply tires. In the early 2000s, someone discovered that there were radials that would fit the rim. People pointed out many of the same issues as are being pointed out by the nay-sayers here, one of them being the legal liability issue because the manufacturer didn'tt recommend radials on that model; also that the shape of the rim and the bead wouldn't hold air properly and/or wouldn't keep the tire on the rim under heavy use. One minor difference between that earlier thread and this: one potential problem mentioned in that earlier thread was that the radials' different riding characteristics might stress the frame in ways it wasn't engineered to tolerate and cause it to crack. Ultimately none of those proved to be an issue, and people who mounted appropriately sized radials got better performance, better gas mileage, more comfortable rides, and longer-lasting tires.

There were a couple of major differences. though, between that earlier, Magna thread and this one: that discussion was calm and composed, with no one feeling the necessity to trot out a parade of horribles describing the imminent demise of our way of life if anyone mounted a radial; and also in that earlier thread, concerned people were satisfied to point out their concerns, once, and then let others weigh the risks and make up their own minds as though they were intelligent, mature, responsible adults, without repeatedly haranguing them. In the end, lots of people mounted radials on their Magnas, no one had any problems, the radials were superior in every conceivable way, and when there were accidents, no one ever reported being asked by anyone what kind of tires they were running.

As to this current case, here's the real question: Did the tire lose air because of the crack, or did the tire lose air for some other reason and was the crack caused by riding miles on the flat? In thinking about this, and in the absence of any evidence either way, of all the possibilities that latter one strikes me as the most likely.

If there's a serious takeaway from this report of the CT going flat and the subsequently discovered crack--and I doubt we'll ever know what actually happened--it's that the CT can disguise and dull the rider's awareness of bad tire conditions. It seems to me that that is something that those considering mounting CTs or those already riding on CTs need to keep in mind when they're weighing the risks/rewards of this particular choice and while they're riding their CTs once they've made their decision to mount/ride a CT.

 
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Reports of cracked rims from run-flat tires:

Just for grins, I googled "run-flat tires and cracked rims" and came up with the following:

https://www.sterling-...run-flat-tyres/

Note the following paragraph:

Yes, as the tyre side-wall is so hard (strong) to enable it to be driven when deflated, it transmits more impact to the alloy wheel rim. For example, when going over a speed bump a bit faster than intended, or perhaps hitting a pot-hole, not only does it give you an even more jarring ride, but it can (in mine and many other people's cases) fracture the wheel rim! BMW alloy wheels are not cheap to replace and it must be replaced because it's a MOT failure to have a cracked wheel rim.

And there's this:

https://forums.automo...acki/index.html

Note this:

BMW refuses to acknowledge that their rims are defective and crack as a result of normal driving, especially their 18 inch rims when coupled with run-flat tires. We have a 2006 530i with standard 18-inch alloy rims and run-flat tires that came on the car. The car is driven 90% on Los Angeles freeways, and the other 10% on well-paved local roads. The car has never taken off road or driven on a particularly bumpy/potholed roads. Nor do we take speed bumps at 40 mph, run over curbs, or not slow for a pothole . . . events that might possibly crack a rim or break a tire. I tell you all this because BMW's excuse for not replacing 2 cracked rims was that the cracks must have been caused by the driver impacting some object, like a pothole, rather then a result of a defect in the design of the rim.

and this:

https://www.northamer...g-too-soon.html

or this about a Suzuki Burgman with a cracked wheel:

https://www.clubcobra...flat-tires.html

In fact, here's the link to the entire google list of 142,000 hits generated by the above search line.

It seems most likely that the tire lost air and the wheel cracked from being run flat for miles.

 
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Exskilbum, what I was referring to about risk was about actually riding the motorcycle and not legal stuff. The argument you have is a different risk entirely and can be extrapolated to aftermarket lights, cruise controls, throttle locks or potentially using synthetic oils instead of recommended oils from the manufacturer. So could we stick with risks with the motorcycle only?

As for other comments, I really wish the condescending and personal attacking terms regarding those choosing to give a CT a trial would stop. It is a personal and individual choice. I fully support anyones right to have an opinion about whether to use a CT or not, but to personally attack anyone who chooses to do so (as being silly, stupid, cheap etc) is not really valid. I mean seriously, could not some people say it is unwise or possibly "silly" or "stupid" to do 7 back to back BBGolds like WC did? I personally admire that accomplishment, but to say it was well within the bounds of safety for the majority of people is not true. I would not condone anyone criticizing that ride though since it was an individual's choice which didn't affect me or others so what is the difference if I choose to give a CT a trial, which I did.

Finally, I already know this post is not going to make a difference so it is an exercise in futility. I've been in enough discussions before to realize if someone is adamantly against something, nothing including logic or reason or whatever will change that and thus futile. I guess I'll continue to see how my personal experiment continues to see if I want to continue using the CT or not. BTW, this rim crack issue, makes me wonder has anyone explored whether or not the huge number of other motorcycle riders on other brands (goldwings, valks, other cruisers etc) have experienced any of these things or other risks. Just curious. I guess I'd better break out a flame suit now :huh: .

doctorj

 
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Helvetius quotation.

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." Voltaire quotation.

I have no vested interest in the ongoing car tire versus motorcycle debate, though a number of months ago I was seriously considering it. Two factors changed my mind against going to a car tire on my Miss Lucy Liu: 1) I just did not want to give up the incredibly precise handling of my FJR for the added mileage life of a car tire. 2) When I told my illegitimate bastard Son SkooterG about my desire for a car tire, he started crying, pissing and moaning like a fecking little girl, it was absolutely embarrassing!

So, my final conclusion is a car tire is still not as dangerous as fiddling around with your GPS, radio or camera going down the road instead of paying attention to conditions. And, I don't see ONE cracked FJR rim as evidence the sky is falling down!

 
I really wish the condescending and personal attacking terms regarding those choosing to give a CT a trial would stop.

I guess I'd better break out a flame suit now :huh: .
You Cheapsiders need to lighten up. Apparently, not only are you an experimentive bunch, but a sensitive lot too. There are peeps giving each other good natured crap all over this forum. Why should you folk be special and not get any of it? Let's face it - you proudly call yourselves 'Darksiders'. Why is that? Seems to me you do it because you KNOW you are doing something far from the 'norm'. And guess what? When you veer far from the norm, people are going to question, chide, and judge you for that. It's going to stir some strong opinions in folk. It's human nature. Apparently the Cheapsiding manual needs a section about needing a thick skin if mounting a car tire. Wimps need not apply. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Perhaps you cheapsiders need to go start your own forum or chat group. I certainly hope not though, this is far too entertaining.

So go ahead - cheapside to your heart's content. And I will continue to take immense pleasure in giving you grief for it. Sounds like a great relationship to me.

Blasphemers!

:p

 
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In 1983 when the Magna came out, it had bias-ply tires. In the early 2000s, someone discovered that there were radials that would fit the rim.
This argument does not appear to hold water, unless your saying in the early 2000s, someone discovered that there were car tire radials that would fit the Magnas rim.

Otherwise, if you're replacing one motorcycle-specific tire with a different motorcycle-specific tire.... well, we routinely do that all the time.

Apples. Oranges.

 
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Performance?

FJRonaMission kept up with, passed, and led Fairlaner on a 'spirited' ride last WFO, Eureka - so the tire *can* suppport performance *if* the rider is willing to adapt riding style to tire behavior *and* has some mechancial ability to discern & adjust suspension and tire pressure settings.

 

The one data point cracked rim?

Insufficient evidence.

 

  •  
  • KrZy8 had a carbonized valve at young miles - is every FJR now at risk of carbonization?
  • KrZy8 apparently has a #1 rod knock at 150k - is every FJR now at risk of rod knock?
  • KrZy8 had the first documented iginition switch failure (IIRC) - is every FJR now at risk of.... uhh, guess I know the answer to that one.. :huh:
  • KrZy8 had an early S4 spider bite - is every FJR now at risk of.... uhh, guess I know the answer to that one.. :huh:

 

It's all about sufficient number of data points. CT's & cracked rims? Time will tell.

 

For me, I doubt I'll ever run a CT. I like cornering, and the FJR piglet is almost too phat for me to dance with, cornering wise.

I have a complete stack of brandie-new PR2's sitting in an environmentally controlled cubetainer - so no need to even entertain a CT on KrZy8 for at lleast another 7,000 Candy Butt Association miles.

 

Having said all that, we should stay true to the original promise of this thread - to openly share info, ridicule those who have ideas other than ours, dogpile Friday all Darksiders, but only on days that end with 'day'? :p

 

I'm looking forward to reading Warchild's de-virgination dark side experience!

..oh, and PIX, I want PIX of this event!

Hugs n' Kisses

:****:

 

 
In 1983 when the Magna came out, it had bias-ply tires. In the early 2000s, someone discovered that there were radials that would fit the rim.
This argument does not appear to hold water, unless your saying in the early 2000s, someone discovered that there were car tire radials that would fit the Magnas rim.

Otherwise, if you're replacing one motorcycle-specific tire with a different motorcycle-specific tire.... well, we routinely do that all the time.

Apples. Oranges.
The point, which as usual you missed, is that the switch from bias-ply to radials was not officially sanctioned, and all the scared little peeps hungry for Daddy's approval brought up (once) the very same end-of-days horribles you LightSiders are bringing up (and up) (and up).

Doug rides 15 miles--15 miles!--on a flat and cracks his rim and whoop-there-it-is: ride on a CT and here comes the Rapture. Change frightens some people and they get all foamy-at-the-mouth, grasping-at-straws irrational.

 
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The point, which as usual you missed, is that the switch from bias-ply to radials was not officially sanctioned
Specious argument.

Apples... oranges.

The Sabmaggots were not doing what the Cheapsiders are doing.

Motorcycle tire ==> motorcycle tire: a routine practice.

Motorcycle tire ==> car tire: a complete mis-application of components.

Two different things. Apples. Oranges.

 
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The point, which as usual you missed, is that the switch from bias-ply to radials was not officially sanctioned
Specious argument.

Apples... oranges.

The Sabmaggots were not doing what the Cheapsiders are doing.

Motorcycle tire ==> motorcycle tire: a routine practice.

Motorcycle tire ==> car tire: a complete mis-application of components.

Two different things. Apples. Oranges.
I'll give you this: you may be wrong, but you're consistently wrong.

 
One of the reasons this thread got moved back to NEPRT land was that it's truly never ending. :dribble: If you cut all the posts out that said it was a bad idea, people were going to die, the horror of liability, personal banter/joking and just non-data added content, there would probably be less than 200 posts in this thread instead of 2200+ and it would be a quiet spot for people that actually had questions or input to add to those interested in doing this, or in learning more so that they could decide if they wanted to or not.

Instead, it's so useless that I had to create a FAQ and I still have to occasionally ask the mods to delete all the posts there after I add content to the FAQ. The behavior on the forum often degenerates threads to the point where it's difficult for interested people to actually locate answers amongst all the crap posted that has nothing to do with the topic.

I wish people could read and just move on. Instead of feeling morally obligated to save us all from ourselves. At this point, I'm close to taking this thread off my watch list and letting it go on with SkooterG & friends just ranting on about the cheapsiders as it goes to 5k posts, most of which have nothing to say.

Some of you should be ashamed of your behavior. That would require self awareness though, and I'm not holding my breath.

CT on the front? The front initiates a turn with counter steering. The rear essentially just follows and provides power. (yes, I know I'm simplifying it!). This means you need a radiused edge to allow some reasonable turn in ability. Even on the one off show bikes running CTs on the front, (BatBike anyone?), you will notice that they shaved the edges of the tire to allow some ability to initiate turns w/o the stunt guy killing himself.

Sure, they sell temp spares in T125/70D17 that would fit on the FJR's front rim, but there are several reasons why this isn't useful.

A. The temp spare is more expensive than a moto tire. I.E. No cost savings.

B. The temp spare has less tread depth than a moto tire. I.E. Less tread life, so again, no cost savings.

C. All temp spares are speed rated at M,(81 mph). I.E. It's not rated for the normal speeds we might go, and only barely for the max. legal speed on some Interstates. No performance improvement, in fact, an inability to use the capabilities of the bike in it's normal manner.

In other words, the temp spare meets none of the goals of Darksiding.

So ok, let's mount up a wider CT on the front. I already know that in normal 17" car tires there is nothing narrower than a 195, and that's rated for a 6.5 to 7" wide wheel. The 205/50-17 size we currently use is rated for a 6" wide wheel, the size of the FJR's rear rim. So in order to run that size tire on the front, you'd need a custom set of triple trees or side car type leading link front forks with the accompanying wider fender, just to fit it on the FJR. Of course, leading link type forks for sidecars are set up with much less Trail so the sidecar steers more easily, and that would play hell with a motorcycle, I suspect, when you're still leaning and counter steering to turn at speed.

So the only option that makes sense if you wanted to run a CT on the front of the FJR, at least in the stock 17" diameter, would be to fabricate custom triple trees, find a 6" wide front wheel that would fit the forks you were using, then figure out all the mounting issues for attaching brake calipers. Or custom order a leading link front end with stock trail. Neither of these options could be politely referred to as cost saving. The rear CT on the other hand only required an inexpensive replacement brake stay bar to be purchased or made to allow CT use.

IOW, there is no point to mounting a CT on the front. It meets no realistic goals whatsoever. It's just some numbnut's attempt to make Darksiding look foolish.

 
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