Going to the Dark Side

[majicmaker]

Florida....huh :huh:

Hey now lnewlf picking on the Floridians is like bullying those kids that ride on the short bus, it's not right and it isn't fair! lnewlf, here is a prime example of what I am talking about. So very damn sad, isn't it!

What?! I actually think Howie looks quite Dapper in that picture.

 

[beemerdons]

Florida....huh :huh:

Hey now lnewlf picking on the Floridians is like bullying those kids that ride on the short bus, it's not right and it isn't fair! lnewlf, here is a prime example of what I am talking about. So very damn sad, isn't it!

What?! I actually think Howie looks quite Dapper in that picture.

Really??? Did you just get a shipment in of Turkish hashish from Ankara, if so cut me off a sliver for my pipe! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

 

[majicmaker]

Florida....huh :huh:

Hey now lnewlf picking on the Floridians is like bullying those kids that ride on the short bus, it's not right and it isn't fair! lnewlf, here is a prime example of what I am talking about. So very damn sad, isn't it!

What?! I actually think Howie looks quite Dapper in that picture.

Really??? Did you just get a shipment in of Turkish hashish from Ankara, if so cut me off a sliver for my pipe! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

I've seen worse! :lol:

 

[lnewlf]

He looks happy enough...at least until he runs into a cloud of love buggz.

 

[beemerdons]

Florida....huh :huh:

Hey now lnewlf picking on the Floridians is like bullying those kids that ride on the short bus, it's not right and it isn't fair! lnewlf, here is a prime example of what I am talking about. So very damn sad, isn't it!

What?! I actually think Howie looks quite Dapper in that picture.

Really??? Did you just get a shipment in of Turkish hashish from Ankara, if so cut me off a sliver for my pipe! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

I've seen worse! :lol:

majicmaker My Brother, with the FJR Forum having full knowledge of your past sordid sexual history and dildo abuses: Bro', you have probably done worse!

 

[RossKean]

I'm going back to the Lightside; at least for now. Just bought a new set of PR3's and hope to get them on this weekend. It's been an interesting experience and I may end out back on the Darkside in the future. I gave it a pretty fair chance - ~25,000 miles in about a year. Riding everything from extended slab to the Dragon.

While never uncomfortable in terms of fearing for tire slippage, I was never really happy with the "feel" of the tire in deeper turns. I don't care for the constant, more forceful steering input that is required.

While it did well on dirt roads, it certainly does not excel on uneven road surfaces. (especially at low speeds)

Still the best for slab riding and will probably be my choice if (when) I do a cross-continent trip. The Exalto is still only half-used and I don't plan to toss it.

I don't know whether anyone has mentioned this, but the last couple of front tires I have had on the bike have worn in more of a trapezoidal shape than usual (both PR2 and Metzeler Z8). FredW and I were speculating whether this might be a function of the CT on the back. There's no doubt that the CT requires additional steering effort and I have to think there's a good chance that this is scrubbing the sides of the tires more. This reduces the life of the fronts and probably offsets some of the cost saving of the CT.

Downsides for switching back:

1) I expect to pay more for rubber

2) Won't get involved in nearly as many interesting conversations at gas stops, restaurants. These are often started by "Is that really a car tire on your bike?"

3) Won't be secure in the knowledge that I will almost certainly have enough rear tire to complete ANY trip.

I'll run these PR3's for awhile and make a final decision on whether I'll go back. Might be nice to have the CT mounted up on a spare rim to be (quickly) installed for trip-specific purposes...

Ross

 

[garyahouse]

RossKean,

I had a little of that scrubbing (that you described) going on with my PR2, which was mounted the same day as my Exalto. But it didn't appear much different than my original factory Metzler when I replaced it... The PR2 did, however, eventually wear out in the center and require replacement@about 15k. It ran pretty smooth its entire life. Thanks for taking the time to post up some feedback on your experience with this tire. It is a valuable contribution to this thread. Good luck with those PR3's. I replaced my PR2 with one, and so far have noticed a little shaking of the handlebars at about 45 mph with the PR3. It's got maybe 1500 miles on it and has done this since the day it was mounted. Not a big issue, and I've not noted any significant cupping, but thought I'd mention it.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[obijohn]

It's got a car engine... why not a car tire? It's not like the Boss Hoss is noted for its fine handling qualities, and all of that torque and HP eats up a m/c tire. All the disadvantages of a trike, and none of the advantages... is this what you buy when the midlife crisis hits and you can't afford a nice sports car?

I'm amazed at the folks who do things like this to a sport tourer (putting a car tire on a FJR), trying to save money, risking a lot more than money. Why would you do anything that would negatively affect the handling on your FJR? I know, the rationale being that the Darksiders aren't looking to lean through the turns with the best of 'em, but sometimes **** happens. Last week I was coming into an exit from one highway to another when a semi merged from an onramp onto my highway, so I hit the throttle to get around him and then entered the exit... only to find that it was much tighter than I thought. Engine braking, some front brake, and a lot of lean got me through. What would have happened if I had a car tire on the back? It would have been a lot hairier and scarier, to say the least.

I look at darksiding as akin to the fellows who ride their tires until the cords are completely exposed, just to save a little, or the private pilots who own their own planes and postpone oil changes and maintenance to save a little. Most of the time, you can get away with this, but eventually your number will come up. Hopefully, when that happens, you'll be able to kick yourself repeatedly (and not just mentally) while you recover.

The thrifty man spends the most. I value my life, and my health, enough to buy the right tires when I need them. If I need to buy them frequently, then that's the price for playing on a motorcycle.

 

[SkooterG]

Why would you do anything that would negatively affect the handling on your FJR? I know, the rationale being that the Darksiders aren't looking to lean through the turns with the best of 'em, but sometimes **** happens. Last week I was coming into an exit from one highway to another when a semi merged from an onramp onto my highway, so I hit the throttle to get around him and then entered the exit... only to find that it was much tighter than I thought. Engine braking, some front brake, and a lot of lean got me through. What would have happened if I had a car tire on the back? It would have been a lot hairier and scarier, to say the least.

Have you ridden a car tire? If not, how do you know it 'negatively affects the handling of the FJR'?

 

[HotRodZilla]

It's got a car engine... why not a car tire? It's not like the Boss Hoss is noted for its fine handling qualities, and all of that torque and HP eats up a m/c tire. All the disadvantages of a trike, and none of the advantages... is this what you buy when the midlife crisis hits and you can't afford a nice sports car?

I'm amazed at the folks who do things like this to a sport tourer (putting a car tire on a FJR), trying to save money, risking a lot more than money. Why would you do anything that would negatively affect the handling on your FJR? I know, the rationale being that the Darksiders aren't looking to lean through the turns with the best of 'em, but sometimes **** happens. Last week I was coming into an exit from one highway to another when a semi merged from an onramp onto my highway, so I hit the throttle to get around him and then entered the exit... only to find that it was much tighter than I thought. Engine braking, some front brake, and a lot of lean got me through. What would have happened if I had a car tire on the back? It would have been a lot hairier and scarier, to say the least.

I look at darksiding as akin to the fellows who ride their tires until the cords are completely exposed, just to save a little, or the private pilots who own their own planes and postpone oil changes and maintenance to save a little. Most of the time, you can get away with this, but eventually your number will come up. Hopefully, when that happens, you'll be able to kick yourself repeatedly (and not just mentally) while you recover.

The thrifty man spends the most. I value my life, and my health, enough to buy the right tires when I need them. If I need to buy them frequently, then that's the price for playing on a motorcycle.

You should have taken the time to read the first 152 pages of this thread. Then you might actually have a clue what you're talking about. Almost no one has complained about loss of handling characteristics. Most have noted that the bike actually handles better in the rain, on sort, and on rough pavement.

Everyone says it takes some more initial steering input to initiate a turn, but that's it. When I rode one, it was nearly impossible to know it was back there. Your little traffic scenario would have worked out just fine.

Stop listening to people that heard this, or have cousins that did that and parroting them like you actually know what's going on. You'll be happier...and more informed.

 

[jasonhc73]

I just completed the Military Sport Bike Riders course (aka MSF Advanced RiderCourse), riding my car tire. Not only did I complete every sport bike task with a car tire. I actually out performed every other sport bike there in curves and braking and acceleration during curves, evation and practically every single task attempted. Only the ZX-14 might have accelerated faster, in a straight line.

The instructors in the course had never seen a car tire on a sport bike and where thoroughly impressed by the performance of the tire. During the extreme turning maneuvers I would always have to slow down, not because of the tire's performance but because the GSXR-6 in front of me was in the way.

I leaned my FJR Car Tire equiped farther and harder than I had ever attempted on a normal motorcycle tire, on purpose for the simple fact of pushing the limit as far as it would go. Trust me, this bike is far more capable than I am, even with a car tire on it.

My car tire is about 8" wide on the ground flat, I had it with about 2 1/2" contact patch and I never felt any beginnings of slippage, ever.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Why would you do anything that would negatively affect the handling on your FJR? I know, the rationale being that the Darksiders aren't looking to lean through the turns with the best of 'em, but sometimes **** happens. Last week I was coming into an exit from one highway to another when a semi merged from an onramp onto my highway, so I hit the throttle to get around him and then entered the exit... only to find that it was much tighter than I thought. Engine braking, some front brake, and a lot of lean got me through. What would have happened if I had a car tire on the back? It would have been a lot hairier and scarier, to say the least.

Have you ridden a car tire? If not, how do you know it 'negatively affects the handling of the FJR'?

He sounds just like the wifes brother...

Never owned let alone ridden a bike, but will tell you with conviction that " Harley is the best bike out there".

 

[garyahouse]

Last week I was coming into an exit... so I hit the throttle to get around him and then entered the exit... a lot of lean got me through... I value my life, and my health, enough to...

I teach reading/english and therefore always find myself rewording what others are trying to say. Sorry 'bout that.Therefore, forgive me for carving up your post (above), but I'd like to comment on something. Let's switch the order of what you said, and add a couple words to help you out. After all, you're not the only one that values your life: you have a family.

Now using your actual words, IF... your post was changed to read this way:

"I value my life and my health enough to... hit the BRAKES to get around him and then entered the exit..."

---then you never would have had to add the words, "a lot of lean got me through."

SOMETIMES THE TYPE OF RIDER IS A GREATER SAFETY FACTOR THAN THE TYPE OF TIRE. However the reality of your recent dilemma is that you put yourself in great danger pulling that stunt. Not to mention the truck driver or even perhaps some slow moving cager, thank God, that was NOT navigating that exit at the same time.

Now, I have a multiple choice question for you. Did your experience; and the feedback you've received from this forum, make you a:

A. poor example

B. safer driver

C. wiser poster

D. all of the above?

Class, are there any other suggestions?

Ride Safe-r,

Gary

darksider #44

ps I almost forgot. You also said, "eventually your number will come up. Hopefully, when that happens, you'll be able to kick yourself repeatedly (and not just mentally) while you recover."

Hmmph. You know what? That's really good advice.

Think about it.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Class, are there any other suggestions?

Sure teach.. Do ya mind if I sit in back an snooze through your class?

I'm a disruptive sort ya know.. I'll set me alarm so you won't need to wake me.

All I ask is a D minus from you.

 

[Spook]

Could I get some input from all you darksiders. I ride with an organization who are now trying to tell me that I am unsafe using a car tire on my ride. claims that it will void my warrentie it is unsafe for various reasons etc and I should switch back to a bike tire right away. Now I know none of the people making this claim have tried the dark side but they think they are expert on this subject. is there any thing out there to prove to them It does not make the bike unsafe and in some ways after rideing it for almost 25 thousand miles I think it may be more safe. As in a flat will probablly not leave you on the side of the road and the bike will not get wabbly on you when it happens.

Thanks

 

[juniorfjr]

As far as voiding any warranties, If one of them works for Yamaha Corp. and can speak on its behalf, then you might listen to what they say. Other wise they are talking out their ass.

Most of the motorcycle establishment is opposed to a cartire on a mc. A recent article in rider magazine states exactly that. You probably won't find anything in print that will validate a car tire. The only thing I can offer is millions of miles without a car tire related incident.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Rider? Really?

Oh wait an "arm"of Motorcyclist..

Highly creditable rag. :clown2:

 

[wfooshee]

Could I get some input from all you darksiders. I ride with an organization who are now trying to tell me that I am unsafe using a car tire on my ride. claims that it will void my warrentie it is unsafe for various reasons etc and I should switch back to a bike tire right away. Now I know none of the people making this claim have tried the dark side but they think they are expert on this subject. is there any thing out there to prove to them It does not make the bike unsafe and in some ways after rideing it for almost 25 thousand miles I think it may be more safe. As in a flat will probablly not leave you on the side of the road and the bike will not get wabbly on you when it happens.

Thanks

I refer the honorable gentleman to an answer given some time previously (post 2967 to be exact

I had the same thing happen when I stopped in my local shop to buy some gloves. (Turns out they were the same price as anyplace I'd found them online, and sales tax was cheaper than shipping. Cool. Had to have them that day, though, because my others tore across the palm while I was putting them on one day.) A couple of the shop guys told me I was going to die. There was no way I could control the bike with that tire on it, any emergency maneuver I might have to make was going to throw me off the bike, and I was stupid for riding with it.

I responded just as strongly that anybody with such a strong opinion formed without any facts was calling the wrong person stupid.

He had a moment of WTF! and then laughed and said, "OK, I accept that. Now tell me why." And I did. I told him I wouldn't darkside an R1, and if I lived in Tennessee or North Carolina I probably wouldn't darkside the FJR, but for highway riding you can't beat it. And the difference in handling from a bike tire is negligible. Not nonexistant, but negligible and easily overcome.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Walt.. The gurl in that pic was suspected of having Lesbian tendency's ..

Therefore, the whole concept is flawed

 

[garyahouse]

Could I get some input from all you darksiders. I ride with an organization who are now trying to tell me that I am unsafe using a car tire on my ride. claims that it will void my warrentie it is unsafe for various reasons etc and I should switch back to a bike tire right away. Now I know none of the people making this claim have tried the dark side but they think they are expert on this subject. is there any thing out there to prove to them It does not make the bike unsafe and in some ways after rideing it for almost 25 thousand miles I think it may be more safe. As in a flat will probablly not leave you on the side of the road and the bike will not get wabbly on you when it happens.

Thanks

Spook: A few factors for you:

About a year ago, we did a poll on this forum. Darksiders chimed in over the course of several weeks and just before the poll was taken off the darkside thread, if I recall correctly, those who responded had accumulated about 6 or 700,000 miles without any issues to speak of. That's a serious amount of evidence. The safety of a CT on the FJR is well documented on these pages.

Many of us push these tires faster than they will ever go on a car. We accelerate harder than most cars can go. We lean em over while grinding up the footpegs. We've put them to the test. There's not been one documented issue that I'm aware of.

But above that, consider this. Once or twice in these 150+ pages, darksiders have commented about their experiences of riding on a flat CT. It comforting to know that if I get a flat tire at speed, I'm riding on a tire that will give me a better shot at coming to a safe stop.

One measure of how a tire is doing under load is temperature. One darksider wrote in to tell us that he checked his tread temperatures with his infrared device. He noted that they had a nice even temperature at something like 31 psi (I forget now). But one thing that stuck with me was the LOW operating temp of the tire. The reason? These tires are designed to carry something like 3 1/2 times the weight they'll carry on an FJR. My Exalto is rated for 1350 lbs. It carries something like 400 with my fat but onboard. And it's going to blow up under all the stress? REALLY?

Another thought: they have really great wet weather traction. Bike tires, especially worn back tires... don't.

In addition, many have commented that they have plugged their flat CT's. I've had a plug in mine for 13k miles or so. This is not an issue for a car tire. It is done routinely at tire shops around the country.As you know that is absolutely not recommended for a motorcycle tire. Just trying getting a shop to plug one. There's a reason for that.

I never mentioned this on the forum: one day while perusing the web, I came across a website that showed pictures of CT's on a motorcycle while cornering through a dyed water solution. They were taken through a clear glass plate-- mounted level with the ground -- and showed clearly the size and shape of the contact patch. I've tried many times, but can't find the site again. But I do recall noting that the contact patch was as large or larger than the contact patch of a MT. It was just a different shape. One difference that I noted was that there were a lot more rain channels for water to escape.

Here's where I'd like to throw in my opinion. We don't ride on racetracks. We ride on roads with oil and grass clippings and gravel and pavement cracks... etc. I'd rather trust my safety to a CT in marginal traction situations than a regular tire pumped up to 42 psi (to get some mileage out of it). Would I be right in thinking that these higher pressures don't help cornering traction? Seems to me that a CT with it's wonderful flexible sidewalls and all those little rain channels does a pretty respectable job when the bike is banked over. Compared to a MT, I would argue that it's even better when traction is marginal because of debri or water on the road.

The one downside? It's been reported that the bike gets a little squirrelly above 130 or so... I wouldn't know, and it's not a factor for me. If I EVER hit triple digits, it's because I'm not paying attention.

Gary

darksider #44