Going to the Dark Side

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Well I finally did it. No, I don't mean "it" as in finally putting on a CT. Heck I did that last winter. I mean "IT", as in I finally took my CT equiped bike out on the track. We have a really fun little track up here just south of the Twin Cities, 16 turns, 1 mile ride of fun! Now I am not that terribly experienced as a track rider, matter of fact, this was only my fourth time on a track. But I think, or I'd like to think anyways, that if you're scaping pegs and flicking the bike from side to side without thinking about it too much, then a CT on the feejer ain't such a bad thing. Something else to consider, this tire has 20K on it so far this season.

When I was presented with an opportunity to do a little track time, I jumped all over it. Timing was perfect. It came the week before the Hooterville ride, and I wanted to be able to push the limits of this tire a bit and improve my confidence in it before I rode it on those Mo and AR back roads. Besides, if the tire was going to fail me on a tight turn and get balled up, at least I was going to be close to home.

Also, I have to admit it was kind of amusing interpretting the looks I was getting from some of the other riders as I rode by to get back on the track, "that foocking idiot has a CT on, he'll crash n burn".

 
Well I finally did it. No, I don't mean "it" as in finally putting on a CT. Heck I did that last winter. I mean "IT", as in I finally took my CT equiped bike out on the track. We have a really fun little track up here just south of the Twin Cities, 16 turns, 1 mile ride of fun! Now I am not that terribly experienced as a track rider, matter of fact, this was only my fourth time on a track. But I think, or I'd like to think anyways, that if you're scaping pegs and flicking the bike from side to side without thinking about it too much, then a CT on the feejer ain't such a bad thing. Something else to consider, this tire has 20K on it so far this season.

When I was presented with an opportunity to do a little track time, I jumped all over it. Timing was perfect. It came the week before the Hooterville ride, and I wanted to be able to push the limits of this tire a bit and improve my confidence in it before I rode it on those Mo and AR back roads. Besides, if the tire was going to fail me on a tight turn and get balled up, at least I was going to be close to home.

Also, I have to admit it was kind of amusing interpretting the looks I was getting from some of the other riders as I rode by to get back on the track, "that foocking idiot has a CT on, he'll crash n burn".
So, tell us about your time at the track and your impressions of the tire. Where's Paul Harvey when ya need him? We're anxious to hear, "The rest of the story."

Gary
darksider #44

 
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Well I finally did it. No, I don't mean "it" as in finally putting on a CT. Heck I did that last winter. I mean "IT", as in I finally took my CT equiped bike out on the track. We have a really fun little track up here just south of the Twin Cities, 16 turns, 1 mile ride of fun! Now I am not that terribly experienced as a track rider, matter of fact, this was only my fourth time on a track. But I think, or I'd like to think anyways, that if you're scaping pegs and flicking the bike from side to side without thinking about it too much, then a CT on the feejer ain't such a bad thing. Something else to consider, this tire has 20K on it so far this season.

When I was presented with an opportunity to do a little track time, I jumped all over it. Timing was perfect. It came the week before the Hooterville ride, and I wanted to be able to push the limits of this tire a bit and improve my confidence in it before I rode it on those Mo and AR back roads. Besides, if the tire was going to fail me on a tight turn and get balled up, at least I was going to be close to home.

Also, I have to admit it was kind of amusing interpretting the looks I was getting from some of the other riders as I rode by to get back on the track, "that foocking idiot has a CT on, he'll crash n burn".
So, tell us about your time at the track and your impressions of the tire. Where's Paul Harvey when ya need him? We're anxious to hear, "The rest of the story."

Gary

darksider #44
"The rest of the story..."

The afternoon on the track was a lot of fun. But as we know, the road conditions are usually pretty good, or at the very least far better than the pavement we commute on on a daily basis. No potholes, minimal tar snakes, or riders on the course who you have some confidence in that they know what they're doing, and no sign posts at the side of the road in the event that that becomes a concern. Another thing you don't come across too much of on a track is gravel.

I had a blast on the track. I didn't think I pushed it too hard, but yet hard enough that I felt confident that the rear tire wouldn't slide out from me under "good" conditions. Still worked up the heart rate though. Would I run the CT if I wanted to do a lot more track days? Most likely not.

In my use of the CT this season I really enjoyed it, it was well worth having on the bike.

However, there were a few times (2 close calls with the third one being possibly "fatal" for the bike) where I felt the front tire slide out from me. All three times it was hitting just a small amount of gravel. Someone had posted earlier about their concern about how they thought their front tire was wearing in an unusual manner. Maybe it was because the two tires just weren't tracking quite right, not in unison let's say. Now we have all slid just a bit when hitting unseen gravel, or tar snakes on a hot summer day, or as I did once an oil leak from a car that got worse as it got into a pair of twisties near my house. I came into that curve a bit hot and drifted out of the apex as I usually do. I had on BT's that day and was shocked and amazed at how the bike just slipped through that oil and hooked up right away. Thing is though, BOTH tires slipped and hooked up at the same time.

I do think from my 20K experience with this CT, that there is some truth to the idea that the front and back are not in sync with each other. Down in Hooterville recently, I rode over a little patch of gravel. Never have I felt like the CT was ever inferior grip wise. That tire just flat out sticks. But I think it puts unusual stress on the front tire. This time when I hit that gravel, the front was gone from underneath me before I knew what happened. It wasn't such a large patch of gravel, and I don't think that if I had had a BT on the back that I would have lost the bike like that. As I said earlier, I think most of us have had "pucker" moments when we ride over something we'd rather not. Can I say for certain I wouldn't have lost it? No

My conclusion about the CT. I won't hesitate to mount it on again. I say "again", because tonight I put the Avon back on it for the adjuster to see tomorrow. I figure there's no sense in confusing him with a CT on a bike. However I will try to find a second rear wheel that I can keep a BT on. CT for the majority of my riding, and the BT for those more spirited rides. Besides, I haven't been asigned a darksider number <tongue-n-cheek> so I'll take the liberty to switch back n forth.

Obviously these are just my observations from my summer on the CT. It is a great substitution for a BT in many ways, but it isn't perfect. I think it's the little things that make it inferior to the bike tire, and sometimes it's those little things that bite you in the a$$.

Mike

 
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Besides, I haven't been asigned a darksider number <tongue-n-cheek> so I'll take the liberty to switch back n forth.
Nothing wrong with going both ways... :unsure: Bust is famous for that.

I may have missed it, though I try to watch the thread. Did you post a pic of your DS tire on the bike?

My take is that the front will wash out before the rear when running DS. The back just has so much more traction than the front. That can lead to pucker moments, but it also gives you the ability to whack the throttle and have the back hook up, even if the front is going. This has saved my bacon on occasion. Front washed about 12" to the side on nasty tar snakes at 70 mph, but the back was solid and throttle and a dab, (not recommended!), kept me up and going down the road.

I'm not completely sold on the front wearing oddly. Some tires wear oddly in front regardless of what rear tire is used. Michelin in my experience, and BTs too.

 
I'm not sold on the front tire wearing oddly either. I ran a few Z6's before the CT and a few after. Same wear, same mileage. But I do agree the CT on the rear sticks better. Gravel is a crap shoot, enough of it and you're going to slide out. The conclusion here is don't ride beyond the capabilities of your least grippy tire, the front. BTW, the reason I like Z6's is they are a stickier than PR2's, even though they won't last quite as long.

 
I experienced what I would consider to be abnormal wear on the front, as I mentioned before. This was with two different Michelin PR2's and a Metzeler Z8 and 25,000 miles. I am very familiar with the trapezoidal wear pattern found with many dual compound tires and, in my opinion, this was greater than when using a MC tire on the rear. I agree that the rear traction is excellent with the CT but I am not certain whether it might reduce the bite of the front tire - not sure how you could safely determine this. I am fairly certain the front wears a bit faster and the wear pattern is a bit more extreme. I have returned to MC tires front and back and I am liking it.

Ross

 
Ross,

Any chance that an INCREASED amount of traction from the rear causes a PERCEIVED decrease in front tire traction... by comparison? Perhaps the available front traction is exactly the same??

Gary

darksider #44

 
Ross,

Any chance that an INCREASED amount of traction from the rear causes a PERCEIVED decrease in front tire traction... by comparison? Perhaps the available front traction is exactly the same??

Gary

darksider #44
Maybe. As I mentioned, it would be difficult to safely do a direct comparison. In any case, I gave the Exalto more than a fair shot - 25000 miles and a whole year. I am pretty sure the front wear is greater but cannot state whether there is significantly less bite or not. In any case, I am really liking the return to the MC rear tire (PR3). Another Exalto may be in my future but only if I need it for a LONG trip with lots of slab riding.

Ross

 
I've been Darksiding for 3 years now. 27,000 miles on my Michelin Pilot A/S Plus.

Can't honestly say the additional traction in the rear is causing detrimental effects on the front, though.

Just parked the FJR this afternoon and rolled out the ZRX for riding the next few weeks. My PR2 just started showing cord on the front this weekend, so it's parked 'til I gin up a new PR2 for the front. 13,000 miles on the first PR2 put on when I went Darksiding back in November 09...14,000 on the current one that just got parked.

Guess if the CT in the rear was overloading the front, I would have got 20,000 miles plus out of the front if I wasn't Darksiding???

Oh, the Michelin in the rear has about 9/32" tread left. Should be good for another 55,000 miles, realistically.

 
Oh, the Michelin in the rear has about 9/32" tread left. Should be good for another 55,000 miles, realistically.
Are you freaking kidding me? 55,000 miles?!?!?! You must ride like a Grandma! I mean, you look like one. :p :p

My Exalto won't get anywhere near 55k. I haven't officially measured it (I need to get one of those tools) but with 23,500 on it, I am estimating I will hit the wear bars around 30k miles. With the new (to me) 09 on the road, sadly I don't think I'll be riding the 04 much for a while, so no more adding up miles to the car tire.

 
:dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble:

I was gonna counter your "grandmother" remark with some pictures of hot grandmothers....

BUT

Do NOT do a Google Image Search for "hot grandmothers" if you've got your Google "Safe Search" turned off!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

 
:dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble:

I was gonna counter your "grandmother" remark with some pictures of hot grandmothers....

BUT

Do NOT do a Google Image Search for "hot grandmothers" if you've got your Google "Safe Search" turned off!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!
Many thanks for the "hot grandmothers" link RadioHowie, I am settling back with a 40 ouncer of Budweiser and a box of Kleenex as we speak! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!

 
:dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble: :dribble:

I was gonna counter your "grandmother" remark with some pictures of hot grandmothers....

BUT

Do NOT do a Google Image Search for "hot grandmothers" if you've got your Google "Safe Search" turned off!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!
Many thanks for the "hot grandmothers" link RadioHowie, I am settling back with a 40 ouncer of Budweiser and a box of Kleenex as we speak! jes' sayin' and nuff' said!
PumpkinPuke.jpg


 
Thought I`d update status of my Exalto..... When I got this tire, it was slightly used (no wear apparent) and may have had 2-3000 miles on it. I did not measure the tread then... 26,000 miles later, tread depth remaining .125` consistent across the whole tread. By the book, tread depth of .060` is worn out..... projected mileage to that point will be 31,000 miles although one could go more... I was running 32-33 psi, but this year I lowered it to 30 based on what I heard here. I do think at 30 it does handle a bit better and one can be as aggressive as one dares. I have not noticed any detrimental effects to front tire wear (usually run Z6`s).

The bad news, I have discovered a small leak at the bead which allows the tire to go flat in less than 2 days. To fix this I don`t know how I`m going to muscle this thing off the rim, as it was a bear to put on. Perhaps I`ll just break the bead and clean it all up all around. I`m not likely to get another season out of it, so may opt to get a new one. We`ll see.

 
Isn't there a type of sauce that installers put on some rims to seal things up? Might wanna check on that. Also, ya might wanna check with a local tire shop to see if they can do this for ya. Seems like it would be pretty quick and easy with the right equipment.

Gary

darksider #44

 
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I was experiencing the same slow issue here a couple of weeks ago. I had ridden the bike to work, and then on the way home, felt something was not right. After taking it easy the rest of the way home, I check the rear tire and found the pressure down around 12PSI. Filled back up to 32PSI and it would end up dropping down into the 20s within a couple of days. Not wanting to dismount the thing again, I tried over-pressuring the tire up to the listed max PSI (48 I think). Left it there for a couple of hours, and then dropped it back down to 32. It has been holding there now for almost 2 weeks. I believe the increased pressure helped seat the bead. It's a known fact the bead seat is a little different, so I figured it was worth the try before taking the bastage and re-mounting. Just something simple you might want to try especially if the bike has been ridden with low pressure.

 
Who will be the first to bastardize, I mean darkside, the Gen III? When will it happen? I think this is a topic ripe for pointless speculation....

 
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