There is another thread. Not a lot of pics, it's not that hard. Unrelated to the CT, just a prematurely worn motor, suspect due to a bad service where TB hoses to the airbox were left loose. A search for '90k motor' shoudl find it.
Going to the Dark Side
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petey
Well-known member
Duezzer, see post #1 of "SOMETHING ALL FJR OWNERS SHOULD KNOW" - .....How long does the motor last.......
OCfjr, hope the car tire works out for you....gone to the dark side allright.
Thanks petey. That was the original post, ( you can tell I was pretty upset then). The update is HERE
Bottom line, FJR motors last well into 150k and beyond, if no negative issues shorten them prematurely. Read the two threads and you'll learn something about what Yamaha will do for ring wear too. Still, a bad service can leave you screwed down the road and with a worn motor early. I got burned, in part because I didn't check the work the shop did. In part because the shop tech did crappy work.
petey
Well-known member
TestPilot
Well-known member
OC - thanks for sharing your info. I haven't been around here all that much of late, but this thread was a great read. And no, you won't die, and your nuts ain't gonna fall off (I think), but did anyone ever think to warn you that putting a CT on your FJR will wear the engine out? I should have been around earlier to warn you.
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Oh no, you can't just stop there.
Did you forget to put a smilie after that sentence?
Are you implying a CT will wear the engine out sooner or are you just being tongue-in-cheek.
Enquiring minds want to know!
palerider
Well-known member
I think he means because of all the extra miles that will be put on the bike because of the CTs.
Joe2Lmaker
Well-known member
Well... you're around now. Give the full warning.
Needing to replace brake pads prematurely makes sense, but replacing an engine prematurely? Why?
It doesn't really matter why, does it? Clearly his prognostication was correct! Just look at the evidence:
Just weeks after OC slapped that Car Tire on the back of his FJR, boom the engine was worn out.
(The previous 90k miles accrued on bike tires had nothing to do with it...)
obligatory
Just weeks after OC slapped that Car Tire on the back of his FJR, boom the engine was worn out.
(The previous 90k miles accrued on bike tires had nothing to do with it...)
obligatory
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
It doesn't really matter why, does it? Clearly his prognostication was correct! Just look at the evidence: Just weeks after OC slapped that Car Tire on the back of his FJR, boom the engine was worn out.
(The previous 90k miles accrued on bike tires had nothing to do with it...)
obligatory
You, sir, are a BAD MAN!!
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
And you, Sally, are a DIPSHIT!!You, sir, are a BAD MAN!!
Ok, so here's the obligatory smiley.
:****:
TestPilot
Well-known member
Based on the evidence as presented, I rest my caseIt doesn't really matter why, does it? Clearly his prognostication was correct! Just look at the evidence: Just weeks after OC slapped that Car Tire on the back of his FJR, boom the engine was worn out.
(The previous 90k miles accrued on bike tires had nothing to do with it...)
obligatory
Yes, I should have posted a smilie - whoops and sorry.
After many years of FJR riding and forum-following (david1300 on other forums) I have great respect for many here, and elsewhere. I have respect for OC, based on what he has posted over many years, but the evidence is right here for us to see - his engine did wear out; and I bet he scratches his nuts every morning (he will say it's because it feels good, but WE know it's to check that they are still the same size :dribble: )
OC - hope the engine swap is completed soon and without drama, and you are back reporting soon :lol:
v65
ouch
After seeing it action, I'm a convert!
Now that there's just funny. oster_stupid: :lol:
Update after a 2300 mile trip from Portland, Oregon to Beatty, NV, then back via NV twisties and CA-1 twisties, then 101 coast Hwy North to Florence, OR where I went inland to I-5 and home on the slab. This trip encompassed dry conditions for everything except the first 300 miles of freezing fog, chewy thick fog and overcast skies, (then I left Oregon), but did have occasional frost and wet pavement. Rain riding has been previously covered in the CT thread. Roads were everything! From hardpack dirt, gravel, (hard, soft, loose & deep), to bad pavement, very bad pavement and smooth fresh pavement.
Corners were from 10 to 50 marked. I rode with another FJR and a 650 Vstrom. Both of those riders are frankly better in the tight sub 30 twisties than I am. I had to really work to keep up at times. The CT didn't slow me down, ever. It did make me work harder than a bike tire would have at times. I never lost traction. The couple of times I came close, it was the front that was trying to slide out, not the rear. I never got nervous about the tire, it just stuck.
On Hwy 1 I let my inner squid loose and hammered harder than I have in years. Second gear, coming out of 20 mph turns at 40+, hard on throttle to the point of lifting the wheel off the ground a couple of times. The WeeStrom was leading and I've ridden that bike. 150 lbs lighter than my FJR and very flickable. I did have to use brute power to keep up, but the Feej has that in spades. Never the less, once I adjusted my riding style to suit the conditions, I was able to keep up with the Vstrom. I suppose some of that is rider, but I say it here simply to indicate that the CT wasn't holding me back. Any limitations were due to my basic comfort level, rather than CT induced.
Ok, on to observations -
As discussed before, YES, there is some increased effort for turn in. It's not horrible, but you have to get used to it. It doesn't take very long. I swapped bikes and let the Vstrom rider ride the Darkside FJR. At first he was "holy crap, how do you turn this!?" But after we left the parking lot, it only took him moments to realize it's much less noticeable at speed, Vs parking lot conditions.
The CT is better in some conditions. Gravel especially. It doesn't squirm as much and feels more stable overall. Any loose conditions, the CT is more stable than the moto tire. On dry pavement with >35 corner conditions, the sidewalls flex enough that the bulk of the tread just stays on the ground, (35 psi) and the edges of the tire don't lift off the ground.
At <35 corner conditions and higher lean angles, yes the outside edge of the tire starts lifting off the ground. At extreme lean angles and hard riding, like 20s and under, ridden hard, you are up on the 'edge' of the tire. However, the "edge" is still 2+ inches of rubber, all tread, no sidewall, on the road. No matter how hard I rode, I never lost traction. I suspect if you tried to, you could simply overpower the rubber on the road if you gave it enough throttle while leaned waaay over, but if you're riding like that, hopefully you're on the track and a CT would have little interest to you.
The CT is stable at high speeds. I hit DoD nominal many times w/o incident. I took it to FJR nominal in NV and it started to feel a little loose just before reaching FJR nominal, but not enough that I felt unsafe or that I needed to back off. (if these terms are unknown to you, search, or PM me and I'll explain.) Higher pressure might help this. For CTs, I would usually raise the pressure a couple of psi if I knew I was going to be doing high speed runs or all slab.
I'm very pleased with the CT experiment at this point. At no time did it slow me down. For my riding style, it works great and I'm still able to depart my smooth PACE style and be a squid on occasion w/o worries about traction limits. It's a little different in the tight twisties going from one edge to the other at fun speeds, but again, you get used to it.
You give up that great neutral feel where you only need to think about turning and you're going that way. If you live for the twisties, don't put a CT on your bike. If you do distance rides, but still like to play some in the twisties, the CT isn't a big deal. You will realize that you are working harder in the tight stuff, but it's not a deal breaker unless that is the bulk of your riding.
What you don't give up is traction. At all. In any conditions. The other FJR rider left on a tire that looked fine. We had to stop and use the FJR assistance list to find a tire for him on a Sunday, and then go to a fellow FJR owner's house and change a tire manually at 6 pm. Mad props to Steve in Marysville, CA for helping us out. On Suberbowl Sunday no less. That rider was into the cords by the time he got home, but the free, mostly worn, D220 that he got did the job.The pussy wouldn't just go to the dark side on the trip. :huh: You do give that part up. B)
At this point, what remains to be seen is actual tire life and how the CT feels as it wears. We all know a new tires usually feels fine, but as it wears, sometimes things change. I'm looking forward to seeing how this tire handles with 10k on it. And 20k, etc.
At approx. 2300 miles. Note some of the side has been worn more than the earlier pics.
Scenery shot at Silver Peak, NV, (almost ghost town):
Ryolite, NV, (ghost town):
At the top of Gilbert Pass in CA on Hwy 168 after hammering over Lido summit and up Gilbert on 266 from Hwy 95 and Westgard in the distance.
oster_stupid: :lol: Update after a 2300 mile trip from Portland, Oregon to Beatty, NV, then back via NV twisties and CA-1 twisties, then 101 coast Hwy North to Florence, OR where I went inland to I-5 and home on the slab. This trip encompassed dry conditions for everything except the first 300 miles of freezing fog, chewy thick fog and overcast skies, (then I left Oregon), but did have occasional frost and wet pavement. Rain riding has been previously covered in the CT thread. Roads were everything! From hardpack dirt, gravel, (hard, soft, loose & deep), to bad pavement, very bad pavement and smooth fresh pavement.
Corners were from 10 to 50 marked. I rode with another FJR and a 650 Vstrom. Both of those riders are frankly better in the tight sub 30 twisties than I am. I had to really work to keep up at times. The CT didn't slow me down, ever. It did make me work harder than a bike tire would have at times. I never lost traction. The couple of times I came close, it was the front that was trying to slide out, not the rear. I never got nervous about the tire, it just stuck.
On Hwy 1 I let my inner squid loose and hammered harder than I have in years. Second gear, coming out of 20 mph turns at 40+, hard on throttle to the point of lifting the wheel off the ground a couple of times. The WeeStrom was leading and I've ridden that bike. 150 lbs lighter than my FJR and very flickable. I did have to use brute power to keep up, but the Feej has that in spades. Never the less, once I adjusted my riding style to suit the conditions, I was able to keep up with the Vstrom. I suppose some of that is rider, but I say it here simply to indicate that the CT wasn't holding me back. Any limitations were due to my basic comfort level, rather than CT induced.
Ok, on to observations -
As discussed before, YES, there is some increased effort for turn in. It's not horrible, but you have to get used to it. It doesn't take very long. I swapped bikes and let the Vstrom rider ride the Darkside FJR. At first he was "holy crap, how do you turn this!?" But after we left the parking lot, it only took him moments to realize it's much less noticeable at speed, Vs parking lot conditions.
The CT is better in some conditions. Gravel especially. It doesn't squirm as much and feels more stable overall. Any loose conditions, the CT is more stable than the moto tire. On dry pavement with >35 corner conditions, the sidewalls flex enough that the bulk of the tread just stays on the ground, (35 psi) and the edges of the tire don't lift off the ground.
At <35 corner conditions and higher lean angles, yes the outside edge of the tire starts lifting off the ground. At extreme lean angles and hard riding, like 20s and under, ridden hard, you are up on the 'edge' of the tire. However, the "edge" is still 2+ inches of rubber, all tread, no sidewall, on the road. No matter how hard I rode, I never lost traction. I suspect if you tried to, you could simply overpower the rubber on the road if you gave it enough throttle while leaned waaay over, but if you're riding like that, hopefully you're on the track and a CT would have little interest to you.
The CT is stable at high speeds. I hit DoD nominal many times w/o incident. I took it to FJR nominal in NV and it started to feel a little loose just before reaching FJR nominal, but not enough that I felt unsafe or that I needed to back off. (if these terms are unknown to you, search, or PM me and I'll explain.) Higher pressure might help this. For CTs, I would usually raise the pressure a couple of psi if I knew I was going to be doing high speed runs or all slab.
I'm very pleased with the CT experiment at this point. At no time did it slow me down. For my riding style, it works great and I'm still able to depart my smooth PACE style and be a squid on occasion w/o worries about traction limits. It's a little different in the tight twisties going from one edge to the other at fun speeds, but again, you get used to it.
You give up that great neutral feel where you only need to think about turning and you're going that way. If you live for the twisties, don't put a CT on your bike. If you do distance rides, but still like to play some in the twisties, the CT isn't a big deal. You will realize that you are working harder in the tight stuff, but it's not a deal breaker unless that is the bulk of your riding.
What you don't give up is traction. At all. In any conditions. The other FJR rider left on a tire that looked fine. We had to stop and use the FJR assistance list to find a tire for him on a Sunday, and then go to a fellow FJR owner's house and change a tire manually at 6 pm. Mad props to Steve in Marysville, CA for helping us out. On Suberbowl Sunday no less. That rider was into the cords by the time he got home, but the free, mostly worn, D220 that he got did the job.
At this point, what remains to be seen is actual tire life and how the CT feels as it wears. We all know a new tires usually feels fine, but as it wears, sometimes things change. I'm looking forward to seeing how this tire handles with 10k on it. And 20k, etc.
At approx. 2300 miles. Note some of the side has been worn more than the earlier pics.
Scenery shot at Silver Peak, NV, (almost ghost town):
Ryolite, NV, (ghost town):
At the top of Gilbert Pass in CA on Hwy 168 after hammering over Lido summit and up Gilbert on 266 from Hwy 95 and Westgard in the distance.
Khunajawdge
Toto El Mundo!
Oh Boy, No Snow on the road? Great, We'll be there in another week!At the top of Gilbert Pass in CA on Hwy 168 after hammering over Lido summit and up Gilbert on 266 from Hwy 95 and Westgard in the distance.
Hey, does the Darkside FJR have a "newer" engine?
Let me be the first to say, "Thanks for the report".
Your report brings more questions to my mind though.
Such as, if this really does work so well, why wouldn't tire manufacturers design a high mileage tire like this? With big, wide, heavy treads and rubber compounds that last 40k miles instead of 4k. Maybe even round the profile a bit on the sides for when leaned over.
And what is the next step? How can you get the front tire mileage somewhere near the rear? Surely a square profile car tire would wreak havoc up front, right?
Your report brings more questions to my mind though.
Such as, if this really does work so well, why wouldn't tire manufacturers design a high mileage tire like this? With big, wide, heavy treads and rubber compounds that last 40k miles instead of 4k. Maybe even round the profile a bit on the sides for when leaned over.
And what is the next step? How can you get the front tire mileage somewhere near the rear? Surely a square profile car tire would wreak havoc up front, right?
Yes. Due to unrelated low compression my original motor died prematurely at 90k. During engine removal it was discovered that a tech left the TB hoses loose to the airbox. My current belief is that the unmetered dirty air, water and other crud is responsible for the ring wear and low compression. I was lucky to find a low mileage '05 motor to install in my '04 and finished that up just prior to this trip. That motor now has 9300 miles on it and runs strong w/o any issues that I can find so far. I hope it lasts to the 150k+ that I had hoped for on the original motor. There are links to that thread earlier in this one.
Not being in the tire business, I can only speculate. I don't think any moto tire manufacturer is actually designing high mileage tires. Some are better than others, but they seem to be aiming for performance targets instead. I would also speculate that since most motorcycle riders in the US use bikes as toys, the perceived demand isn't there for long life moto tires like it is for long life car tires. I've seen 20 year old bikes with the stock tires still on them! The 'average' rider probably doesn't wear a set of tires out annually.
As you, or someone else, mentioned in the past, the car tire design is not optimal for a motorcycle. I'm not suggesting it is either, just that it doesn't perform as badly as some might think, and for me, it's an acceptable compromise to get the benefits I seek.
I did speak to a Wing Darksider this weekend that runs a Run Flat CT on the rear and a rear tire on the front. His claim is that the rear tire, (in the same size or close to it as the normal front), has thicker tread than the normal front and seems sticky, but lasts significantly longer with better wear profile than the normal front tire does. <shrug> I'm not sure I want to go there, but there is a 140/80-17 rear Avon available.
I completely agree that a square tire profile up front would be BAD and result in serious turn in issues. Fronts generally last longer for me than rears, and I have one of those cheap close out Azaros hanging in the garage to replace the crap RoadSmart, so I'm not really going to worry too much about alternative front tires right now. Not to mention the rear tire always cost more than the fronts.
fossilrider
Well-known member
Great write-up. Really appreciate the feedback.
Duezzer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 290
- Reaction score
- -1
Thanks for the Up Date
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