Going to the Dark Side

[user 213]

Wings and cruisers have been doing the Darkside for a long time. Easier with the 15 & 16" wheels they run. Lots more selection on tire sizes. Wings now do "double darksiding" where they run a rear moto tire on the front and a CT on the rear.

 

[Catfish]

Wings now do "double darksiding" where they run a rear moto tire on the front and a CT on the rear.

That's just CRAZY!!!

They're gonna get killed (or their balls are gonna fall off) don't cha know!!!

 

[demetri]

i just had to after reading the 801 posts!

I'm gonna do it just because of the anti-establishment-ness-ism-ish of it! I hate how marketing has more weight than almost anything else these days.

 

[dangerdog]

my last two cents.

Its utterly absurd that a really nice tire like the Potenza goes for 94 dollars carry out and will last three times as long as a moto tire. When the guy told me 94 bucks, i just started laughing. Surreal.

 

[Big-D]

I run a Potenza on my 650 Scooter and it has not effected the handling in a negative way at all. And after hitting 10k miles on it, still looks brand new.

I would like to put a CT on my FJR, but am considering the twisties. Although, the ground patch on either a car tire or motorcycle tire is no more than an inch or less. Car tires are designed to hold more weight and weight equals heat, which is the biggest enemy of all things that go round and round. But because cars out weigh motorcycles, the harder rubber compound of a car tire could possibly work against a motorcycle while leaned into a turn. I've seen big rigs haul ass over icy roads where my pickup wanted to skate and dance all over the place. The extreme weight of the truck held it on the road.

The only thing that I can see affecting most people would be the effects a CT will have on cornering, when the bike is laid over pretty good and the tire comes in contact with something like a painted line, (small) patch of sand or gravel or some other type of slick substance that a bike tire may run right through with little or no ill effects at all. If all I did was travel cross country, I would already have installed a CT. But trying to keep up with some of you wacko forum members in the curves is difficult enough running a set of PR2's. I am a little worried I'd end up sliding down the asphalt trying to keep up utilizing a CT on the rear.

My answer would be to own two rear rims that could be swapped out with the CT when making that cross country adventure ride and replaced with the PR2's when riding the twisties. But then the whole point of saving that immortal buck would be lost forever in the cost of an additional rear wheel assembly. I guess I'm still a fence walker!

Solution: More R&D required!

 

[iboldguy]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

From: Rennie, Brian

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:15 PM

To: [email protected]

Cc: Helen Theodorou; [email protected]

Subject: FW: Automobile tires on Motorcycles

Dave,

Bridgestone certainly does NOT recommend using passenger car tires on motorcycles. Following is an excerpt from our data book:

NEVER MOUNT PASSENGER CAR TIRES ON MOTORCYCLE RIMS.

Mount only “tubeless” tires on “tubeless” rims when the rim manufacturer recommends this fitment. Some rims require tubes. A “tubeless” tire must be installed on a “tube type” rim when the appropriate tube is inserted.

Do not install non-radial tubes in radial tires. Insure that the tube marking matches the radial tire marking before installation to rims that require tubes.

A new valve must be installed on the rim each time a worn out motorcycle tire is replaced.

Never put flammable substances in tire/rim assemblies at any time. Never put any flammable substance into a tire/ rim assembly and attempt to ignite to seat the beads.

Please consult the motorcycle manufacturer before using any tire size other than the one listed in the owner’s manual.

Tire and Rim Association (TRA) and European Tyre and Rim Technical Organization (ETRTO) provide approved rim widths and contours for any given tire. Motorcycle rims are NOT approved to be fitted with passenger car tires. The bead area of a car tire is different than a motorcycle tire and is not designed for the motorcycle rim.

Regards,

Brian Rennie

Bridgestone Canada Inc.

Sales Engineering

905-568-6498

[email protected]

snippage.................

From: Dave Clancy [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 3:31 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Automobile tires on Motorcycles

I have seen web sites where people are saying they have successfully used auto tires on a motorcycle and I have seen a motorcycle where this has been done. Most people say this is not safe while others claim it is safe and they have done it without any problems. The main reason seems to be longer tread wear life.

Do you have information on the safety of this practice? Do you know where I can get the information?

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Dave Clancy COG 5452, CDA 0008

Hamilton, Ont

 

[Bustanut joker]

I have seen web sites where people are saying they have successfully used auto tires on a motorcycle and I have seen a motorcycle where this has been done. Most people say this is not safe while others claim it is safe and they have done it without any problems. The main reason seems to be longer tread wear life.
Do you have information on the safety of this practice? Do you know where I can get the information?

Well I'd point out the obvious here but I think I'll let someone "in the know" do it for me..

Didja know Tomatoes were once considered poisonous? Somebody had to try em.. I have the article around here somewhere.

:jester:

 

[meosborn]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

Dave,

Bridgestone certainly does NOT recommend using passenger car tires on motorcycles. Following is an excerpt from our data book:

NEVER MOUNT PASSENGER CAR TIRES ON MOTORCYCLE RIMS.

You didn't actually expect Bridgstone to say it was a good idea did you? The only way they would ever open themselves up to that kind of liability would be if they were making a lot of money in that market. That would mean active marketing and sales of these tires for use on motorcycles.

 

[user 213]

<snip>But because cars out weigh motorcycles, the harder rubber compound of a car tire could possibly work against a motorcycle while leaned into a turn.

Minor point, the CT rubber is actually a softer compound than the moto tires we use. Because the surface area is much greater, and the contact patch under much of the riding conditions is more even, heat is very well distributed. The additional tread blocks also seem to help in cooling.

The only thing that I can see affecting most people would be the effects a CT will have on cornering, when the bike is laid over pretty good and the tire comes in contact with something like a painted line, (small) patch of sand or gravel or some other type of slick substance that a bike tire may run right through with little or no ill effects at all. If all I did was travel cross country, I would already have installed a CT. But trying to keep up with some of you wacko forum members in the curves is difficult enough running a set of PR2's. I am a little worried I'd end up sliding down the asphalt trying to keep up utilizing a CT on the rear.

Ahh grasshopper - the CT won't step out on tar snakes or minor sand. In fact the moto tire will do so far more readily than the CT will. This is because of the greater number of sipes and tread blocks on a CT. I have ridden through sand at lean angles where the front tire started stepping out, but the rear refused to do so. Never have I had the front want to slide before the rear when running both moto tires.

My answer would be to own two rear rims that could be swapped out with the CT when making that cross country adventure ride and replaced with the PR2's when riding the twisties.

I too had that thought in the beginning. In practice, once I became comfortable with the CT, I lost any desire to have a second wheel ready with a moto tire. The CT proves to have no limitations for me in the twisties. This is to say that my normal riding style can be maintained with the CT, and that I can push harder if I wish to w/o danger, to the point of scrapping pegs. This is not saying that equal riders on equal bikes on the same course would not prefer a moto tire. Transitions are smoother and slightly faster with moto tires with less effort. On the street, the differences do not amount to limitations.

To what Meosborn typed, +100.

Bridgestone Canada is simply covering their collective butt. Of their statement, only the following has any truth to it -

Tire and Rim Association (TRA) and European Tyre and Rim Technical Organization (ETRTO) provide approved rim widths and contours for any given tire. Motorcycle rims are NOT approved to be fitted with passenger car tires. The bead area of a car tire is different than a motorcycle tire and is not designed for the motorcycle rim.

The rest of their statement is out dated and has no relevance to the here and now. The bead of a radial moto tire is very similar to the bead of a radial car tire these days, but truthfully, is not designed to fit the moto rim. That doesn't mean it won't work just fine though.

@iboldguy - No tire or motorcycle manufacturer will ever tell you that mounting a car tire on a motorcycle wheel is safe. I hate to break it to you, but this life thing has risks. In fact, you'll never get out of it alive. Really, Life is terminal. In light of that, I strongly urge you to get the most out of it you can and don't believe everything you read on the internet. Even from me.

This thread is, was, and shall always be about sharing personal, direct experience so that others can make an informed decision on whether they wish to try a CT on a FJR. It's NOT about convincing anyone that this is the safest, bestest, coolest thing since sliced bread.

 

[Big-D]

Eric,

My scooter handles great with the car tire, and it looks like it might last a very long time. I'll have to replace it because of dry-rot before it wears out.

There is a good chance I'll try the CT (if) I can mount it myself. Mounting the PR2 on the rear was a total bitch to accomplish using my manual Harbor Freight tire machine. And that extra layer of cord on the PR2 "B" probably made it tougher. I managed by myself, but it took a while.

 

[mattster31]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

What you talkin' bout Willis.......................since when. (crazy Canadian laws) I'll just have to say it's against my religion not to use a car tire on my motorcycle The judge will just roll over for fear of offending some obscure religious group <_< .

and here I thought I would be the first Canadian Darksider. I'm still going to do it once my Azzaro wears out.

 

[user 213]

Eric,
My scooter handles great with the car tire, and it looks like it might last a very long time. I'll have to replace it because of dry-rot before it wears out.

There is a good chance I'll try the CT (if) I can mount it myself. Mounting the PR2 on the rear was a total bitch to accomplish using my manual Harbor Freight tire machine. And that extra layer of cord on the PR2 "B" probably made it tougher. I managed by myself, but it took a while.

Perhaps you should have another member of Los Robustos on hand to assist when you mount the CT? Sometimes a little extra heft is a good thing.

@Mattster - It's ok, I hear lots of things are illegal in Ontario and don't get enforced. B) You can't hunt on Sundays with a firearm, but rocks are ok. Thankfully, car-pooling just became legal earlier this year! Whoo Hoo! Less cagers on the road and the RCMP isn't issuing citations for "Solicitation with the intent to rideshare" any more.

 

[BugR]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

What you talkin' bout Willis.......................since when. (crazy Canadian laws) I'll just have to say it's against my religion not to use a car tire on my motorcycle The judge will just roll over for fear of offending some obscure religious group <_< .

and here I thought I would be the first Canadian Darksider. I'm still going to do it once my Azzaro wears out.

Hate to burst your bubble as Darksider #2 I have about 30,000 Km on you.

Chris

 

[mattster31]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

What you talkin' bout Willis.......................since when. (crazy Canadian laws) I'll just have to say it's against my religion not to use a car tire on my motorcycle The judge will just roll over for fear of offending some obscure religious group <_< .

and here I thought I would be the first Canadian Darksider. I'm still going to do it once my Azzaro wears out.

Hate to burst your bubble as Darksider #2 I have about 30,000 Km on you.

Chris

KUDOS !!!!!!

Perhaps I'll be Canadian Darksider #2 then ???

What tire are you running??? I'll be purchasing one over the winter.

 

[motofrank]

Hate to burst your bubble as Darksider #2 I have about 30,000 Km on you.

Chris

KUDOS !!!!!!

Perhaps I'll be Canadian Darksider #2 then ???

What tire are you running??? I'll be purchasing one over the winter.

I installed mine after seeing OCfjr and BugR bikes in Nakusp BC this summer at CFR.

I'm using the Potenza G019 and I'm happy with the results so far.

Frank

Alberta

 

[dangerdog]

AAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!

*breaks through wall with raised fist of triumph*

Got it put on!! Had to help the tire guy, it was a moto shop, but it was on the low low, only cost me 20 bucks. YES!!

Got home, put it all back together and riiiiiiight before i could torque the bolts down it started pouring so i retreated indoors (cant afford to screw up my only torque wrench)

Get inside and start looking on the computer......only to realize i put that little spacer on the right side in the wrong damn spot. *hits forehead with afore mentioned fist of triumph*

if its dries up today im going put the washer, spacer whatever you call it in the correct spot and put it all back together. Im pretty amped. Not even this little hiccup could lower my spirits.

 

[user 213]

Got it put on!! Had to help the tire guy, it was a moto shop, but it was on the low low, only cost me 20 bucks. YES!!

Yaaaaaaaa!

Got home, put it all back together and riiiiiiight before i could torque the bolts down it started pouring so i retreated indoors (cant afford to screw up my only torque wrench)

Booooooo!

Get inside and start looking on the computer......only to realize i put that little spacer on the right side in the wrong damn spot. *hits forehead with afore mentioned fist of triumph*

Yaaaaaa! It's good to realize things like this before you torque the axle down.

if its dries up today im going put the washer, spacer whatever you call it in the correct spot and put it all back together. Im pretty amped. Not even this little hiccup could lower my spirits.

Good luck with the weather. Just remember to take it easy on the tire scrub in ride!! A little mix of speeds and city/highway is a good thing.

 

[BugR]

Beside the answer to my inquiry see below, it is illegal to put a CT on a motorcycle in Ontario. If a sharp eyed police officer or insurance adjuster spots a CT on your bike, it could prove really expensive.

What you talkin' bout Willis.......................since when. (crazy Canadian laws) I'll just have to say it's against my religion not to use a car tire on my motorcycle The judge will just roll over for fear of offending some obscure religious group <_< .

and here I thought I would be the first Canadian Darksider. I'm still going to do it once my Azzaro wears out.

Hate to burst your bubble as Darksider #2 I have about 30,000 Km on you.

Chris

KUDOS !!!!!!

Perhaps I'll be Canadian Darksider #2 then ???

What tire are you running??? I'll be purchasing one over the winter.

Bf Goodridge G-Force super sport A/S 205/50 R17, I got mine at Costco for $135 CDN

 

[dangerdog]

Cant say thanks enough to OC, this will make my ride to Alaska soooo much more affordable!! Im not leaving till April, so that means i would have went through a tire before then (i ride my bike to work a lot), then went through one just for the trip, then been close to having to buy another one when i got back. Instead i got the Potenza for less than a one Bighead Benji!!

First impression all i can say is that................ I expected to have use more muscle? Its not as hard to turn as this thread leads you to believe. In fact, the only real difference i felt was a little more tendency to track the lines in the road. Didnt ride hard, just trying to break the tire in a little, but initial impressions arent really anything that hasnt already been stated. So far i am completely happy.

Me thinks this bike will stay darksided out forever and when my gf gets out of nursing school ill just buy a used R1 for riding like a moron.

OC if you ever come to Jacksonville and get locked up i got you an extra lunch tray on the house. So, you got that going for you. B)

 

[RadioHowie]

I know a lot of folks think Darksiding a Feej is stupid/silly/dangerous/insane/etc., but by gosh, that right there is pure moto-porn!

Me likey lotsey.

'Howie