Going to the Dark Side

[beemerdons]

RadioHowie, Windows 7 home computer crashed again and I'll be in Mexico on Friday. So, please read this 4/9: Screw You!!!

Funny you mention it, but I yanked Win7 out of my computer two nights ago.....wouldn't run some of my favorite video programs. Dammit.

Oh, yeah---------bite me!

Consider yourself bit, Bro! I'm just about ready to go completely ROGUE! Put a car tire on my FJR, switch to Apple, say to hell with Windows, start braiding my pubes like OM, Shiny, odot and Bustanut joker do and have a bowl of peyote for breakfast!

 

[wheatonFJR]

...Consider yourself bit, Bro! I'm just about ready to go completely ROGUE! Put a car tire on my FJR, switch to Apple, say to hell with Windows, start braiding my pubes like OM, Shiny, odot and Bustanut joker do and have a bowl of peyote for breakfast!

Don,

Yer a freakin' animal! B)

 

[SacramentoMike]

" . . . I'm just about ready to go completely ROGUE! Put a car tire on my FJR, . . . start braiding my pubes like OM, Shiny, odot and Bustanut joker do . . . "

Which wheel? Front wheel would be WAY rogue.

Me, I've never seen most of those guys' pubes.

 

[mattster31]

Me, I've never seen most of those guys' pubes.

Most??? Then you've seen some?.......ewwww...... busta fer sure right? Wait........he shaves his does'nt he?

 

[Duezzer]

Heard it was a bad accident and he just has no growth - ball(s) may have fallen off too.

Happens to the best of those who ride thru field trolling for a date

I was on my way to the Dark Side - ready to order tire and my wife up and suprises me with a set of PR2's for my birthday

Man oh man did I marry the right lady :yahoo:

When these have worn out - DARK SIDE :assassin:

 

[bvail]

My experience with car tires:

I installed a Kumho Ecsta run flat on my GL1800 prior to attending the NAFO here in Denver (2008?) I was getting tired of the excessive rear tire cupping and was intregued by what I read on the Dark Side at the www.gl1800riders.com website and thought what the hell, why not. So, with the help of my brother we managed to get that tire on the wheel, no mean feat, using a Harbor Freight tire stand, No-Mar levers, a Mojo lever and quite a number of brewskis and lots of bad language.

I signed up for the NAFO SS1K ride and checked in with 150 miles of Kumho experience under my belt. It doesn't take very long to get used to the slightly different ride. There were IIRC 25 FJRs and me on the Wing participating. This was my first Iron Butt ride and I don't think anyone considered it a piece of cake. The tire performed very well in the twisties, including some very bad weather up around Lake City. I rode with Kaitsdad for much of the time and I don't think he would say I struggled around the corners with this rig, although I ride fairly conservative, especially on the more technical roads.

Last year I participated in the Great Lakes Challenge with the Kumho setup and nary a problem. Nice thing about a Wing is that you can flop it over on the right side to change the tire. No jack or centerstand required )

I also attended the International Brotherhood of Motorcycle Campers national rally in Helper UT last summer and while there a fellow came in with a 2009 Concourse (much the same animal as an FJR I think) and guess what was on the rear of his bike? Same tire as I'm using - Kumho Ecsta run flat. He said that he really liked it and his riding buddies all claimed he was going to die in a flaming crash.

I am hoping to come out to Eureka WFO this year on the GL1800. I'll be running the Kumho, which still looks new.

 

[RadioHowie]

Good info!

But your status as a GL rider makes you suspect as a source of credible information.

 

[El Toro]

This thread must set some kinda record for a thread that was relegated to NEPRT, brought back from the dead by a moderator, and now continues to live just like the undead.

I was at an SAE meeting recently and spent some time with Bridgestone's former head motorcycle tire guy. Although he does not have an FJR, and did not reference this forum, he brought up this dark side idea, and his take on it matched mine, hashed out before, and not to be repeated here.

Are you sure this thread hasn't come over from a worm hole over on the Suzuki Burgman Forum?

 

[meosborn]

This thread must set some kinda record for a thread that was relegated to NEPRT, brought back from the dead by a moderator, and now continues to live just like the undead.
I was at an SAE meeting recently and spent some time with Bridgestone's former head motorcycle tire guy. Although he does not have an FJR, and did not reference this forum, he brought up this dark side idea, and his take on it matched mine, hashed out before, and not to be repeated here.

Are you sure this thread hasn't come over from a worm hole over on the Suzuki Burgman Forum?

It lives on because it's interesting. It's interesting to those that are considering the darkside, those that are currently on the darkside and even those that think the darkside is the worst idea since bellbottoms.

And another thing that's been hashed out before is that the tire company's opinion (yes, former employees count too) isn't particularly relevant. They are in business to make money and a large part of that is staying out of the courtroom. Regardless of how a CT actually performs on a bike, most people won't even consider riding on one because of the profile. Usually, when I talk to someone about the darkside, they will say something to the effect of "Just look at it!" when referring to a CT on a motorcycle. If the tire manufacturer can't sell a CT for use on a motorcycle, or even a motorcycle tire with a flat profile, they sure won't ever stick their neck out and say that it might work and risk a lawsuit.

And Mr. "former head motorcycle tire guy" has probably never tried it himself. Then again, if he has, tell him to log on and post his observations on this thread. I for one would be interested to hear his or anybody's experiences.

 

[meosborn]

I finally got around to taking a picture for proof that I have the CT installed.

I haven't had any big revelations that haven't been mentioned here previously. For me the biggest surprise has been how well it works. There was definitely a difference in how the bike felt when I first started riding with the CT but within a hundred miles the extra effort to turn was hardly noticeable. What is still noticeable is how it feels on ruts or seams that run with the road.

I started out thinking that I would like to have a spare wheel with the CT that I would put on the bike when I wanted to go on a long distance ride. Now I'm starting to think I'll just keep the wheel with the MC tire stored until I go on some rides through the twisties.

 

[user 213]

Meosborn - You have been officially added to the Darksider list as #19, per your request.

 

[bvail]

I finally got around to taking a picture for proof that I have the CT installed.
I haven't had any big revelations that haven't been mentioned here previously. For me the biggest surprise has been how well it works. There was definitely a difference in how the bike felt when I first started riding with the CT but within a hundred miles the extra effort to turn was hardly noticeable. What is still noticeable is how it feels on ruts or seams that run with the road.

I started out thinking that I would like to have a spare wheel with the CT that I would put on the bike when I wanted to go on a long distance ride. Now I'm starting to think I'll just keep the wheel with the MC tire stored until I go on some rides through the twisties.

How much pressure are you running in the tire? I usually run low 30's.

DS #191 (GL1800riders.com)

 

[RadioHowie]

What is still noticeable is how it feels on ruts or seams that run with the road.

Two days ago I would have added a +1 to that, as I was experiencing an annoying amount of "rut-following" of late with my CT'd Frankenbike. Also was starting to get a little "tail twitch" when going over thick road paint at intersections at slow speed. Never felt it over 20mph or so, but at walking speeds, a longitudinal road imperfection would make the rear end move laterally.

However, after putting a new PR2 on the front Wednesday afternoon, my "rut-following" has diminished almost to Zero. The slow-speed "tail twitch" has diminished as well.

In other words, my mind was telling me the Big Michelin on the back was moving me around, when it was the new Little Michelin on the front that cleared up the vagueness of the 12,000 mile Avon Storm.

What I'm saying is a good, properly inflated front tire makes more difference to the "feel" of the Feej than the back tire does. Basically, that big, wide contact patch in the back seemed to amplify the "wore-outedness" of my front tire.

Front PR2 - 39lbs inflation

Rear A/S Plus - 32lbs inflation

(p.s.: Ask me how pleased I was to get 12k out of the front Storm!)

 

[wfooshee]

Yeah, OK . . . . .

How pleased were you to get 12K from the Storm?

As pleased as I was to get 14,151 miles on my Pirelli Diablo Strada?

 

[zenwhipper]

Thanks for the props DangerDog. Glad it's working well for you. I'm still pretty pleased at 28k myself, and still trying to wear out that first Potenza G019.
A note of caution for the CT users - Pay attention to your tire pressure. Due to the stiffness of the sidewalls, compared to a moto tire, the difference in feel between the 31 psi many of us run and say, 21 psi, is very slight. However, the sides of the tire will wear much more at low pressures if you ride the twisties in a normal fashion.

The larger concern is that if you pick up a nail or other item causing a leak, that you might miss the fact while riding on the road. I picked up an inch long piece of glass during a 500 mile day and didn't notice it during the ride as my pressure dropped 10 psi or so. Only caught it when I checked the tire condition and pressure before the next ride.

It feels like turn in is a little soft, or easier than normal. Please be aware of this and sensitive to it being a warning sign! If you even think it feels different, stop and check your tire pressure.

If we lose all the pressure in the tire, it may be possible to have cornering forces that push the tire off the wheel and result in an accident. I've had this happen on flat trailer tires, but it would be much more unpleasant with the FJR. Appearance doesn't change with a flat tire. The sidewalls are more than stiff enough to support the bike just like if it was aired up. Use a pressure gauge before each ride.

Just anuther reason not to do this silly car tire thing.

 

[RadioHowie]

Pay attention to your tire pressure.

Please be aware of this and sensitive to it being a warning sign!

Appearance doesn't change with a flat tire.

Use a pressure gauge before each ride.

Just anuther reason not to do this silly car tire thing.

So Zenkitty, you bolded 4 items, but write "anuther reason....."

So which singular reason do we apply to the four items you refer to?

"Pay attention to your tire pressure" Sounds like a good thing to do, Moto- OR Car- tire.

"Please be aware of this and sensitive to it being a warning sign!" Any good rider should be sensitive to possible warning signs.

"Appearance doesn't change with a flat tire." Do you use your eyes to measure your tire pressure?

"Use a pressure gauge before each ride." That's something everyone should do.

SO.....which one of the above four items is a good reason to NOT go Darkside?

I've read lots of OPINION why Darksiding is a bad thing, but I don't recall reading any quantitative research against it.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Yeah...air pressure is an issue whether CT or not.

If you check your air pressure before you ride via gauge, not an issue.

Also, you ought to be able to feel drastic changes of "feel/handling" due to loss of pressure while you're riding due to a nail etc.

So I'm not sure what that has to do with a CT.

 

[meosborn]

How much pressure are you running in the tire? I usually run low 30's.
DS #191 (GL1800riders.com)

33#. I haven't played around with that much yet.

As far as the condition of my front tire, I'll go ahead and give a look but the pressure is 42# cold and only has about 1,000 miles on it. I wouldn't say that the issues with the ruts are very significant but it was something that I notice when I switched to the CT.

I'm playing with the idea of offering my spare wheel with the CT for others to try for a short amount of time. I'm not sure how that would work out though considering liability, accountability (will it get returned) etc. I would think that if someone wanted to try it out it wouldn't be difficult to hold their wheel as collateral but the liability stuff still concerns me. On top of all that, is there even anyone in the area that wants to try it out? I would much rather let someone try out my CT wheel on their bike than let them try riding my bike. Besides, it would give them a more accurate assesment if it's on their bike.

Any feedback?

Meosborn - You have been officially added to the Darksider list as #19, per your request.

You rule.

 

[user 213]

I'm playing with the idea of offering my spare wheel with the CT for others to try for a short amount of time. I'm not sure how that would work out though considering liability, accountability (will it get returned) etc. I would think that if someone wanted to try it out it wouldn't be difficult to hold their wheel as collateral but the liability stuff still concerns me. On top of all that, is there even anyone in the area that wants to try it out? I would much rather let someone try out my CT wheel on their bike than let them try riding my bike. Besides, it would give them a more accurate assesment if it's on their bike.
Any feedback?

You'd have to loan them a caliper tension arm too, not that it's a huge deal. Interesting. Off hand, if you know someone well enough to have a feel for whether or not they would sue you if they crashed, or man up and accept responsibility for their own actions and choices, it would be fine. A couple hundred miles on their own bike would go a long ways to helping someone decide.

OTOH, reading the forum and knowing you want more tire life will also go a long ways to taking the plunge. Almost everyone says the same thing once they go DS, it's not as different as they expected.

I personally enjoy letting nay sayers have a ride, just so they aren't completely talking out their ass when they say they don't like it, but I also don't feel the need to convince anyone to do it. Some folks riding styles simply aren't well suited for the DS. Other, simply have enough tire funds to not consider it. Neither is wrong.

 

[meosborn]

You'd have to loan them a caliper tension arm too, not that it's a huge deal. Interesting. Off hand, if you know someone well enough to have a feel for whether or not they would sue you if they crashed, or man up and accept responsibility for their own actions and choices, it would be fine. A couple hundred miles on their own bike would go a long ways to helping someone decide.
OTOH, reading the forum and knowing you want more tire life will also go a long ways to taking the plunge. Almost everyone says the same thing once they go DS, it's not as different as they expected.

I personally enjoy letting nay sayers have a ride, just so they aren't completely talking out their ass when they say they don't like it, but I also don't feel the need to convince anyone to do it. Some folks riding styles simply aren't well suited for the DS. Other, simply have enough tire funds to not consider it. Neither is wrong.

Actually, I would figure they would need the tension arm as well as the brake pads. I have a set for each wheel. All in all the change out shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.

As far as the liability I wonder if some sort of "Hold Harmless" agreement would work. If I knew someone well enough, you're right, I wouldn't worry about it much. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone that owns an FJR.

It'll matter if anyone asks I suppose.