Going to the Dark Side

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Hard to believe that it would be anything but bad. Car tires are not designed to run on the edges. The COG of the bike is also going to be a couple inches higher than normal when leaning into a corner over due to the square cross section - even worse. A wider tread will make the bike even higher during the lean.
You're forgetting your math. Higher tail on a bike means steeper steering angle, and quicker turn in.

Also keep in ming that car tires are designed to carry a lot more weight than a motorcycle - probably no flex at all which will make the contact patch with the road very small. I would also imagine that if you hit a puddle you going to hydroplane like crazy.
Yes, the CT is designed to handle more weight. But also designed to work for a wide range of weights. 1/4 of a 2300 lb sports car to 1/4 of some big grand touring car, for example. We run pressures developed from our testing that work for the load we have. Mostly 30-32 psi. Contact patch is much larger than a moto tire in most cases. The problem with your imagination is it lacks experience. ;) What really happens is that it's almost impossible for a CT to hydroplane on a bike. It throws a HUGE amount of water spray off the back! There are so many more tread blocks and sipes than on a moto tire that riding in the wet is simply incredible. Now, most of us run high performance all-season tires. You could conceivably run a summer performance tire that has no sipes and a compound that gets hard quickly in cool wet conditions and have issues. I've certainly felt that in a car! From great dry traction to horrible understeer in the wet on some nasty Dunlops.

This looks like an accident waiting to happen.
Yes, it looks wrong. But it does in fact work quite well. At 28k on my BT 019 Grid, I'm not to the wear bars yet and probably have another 10k left on this tire.

Once again, it's really not that different, handling wise, than a moto tire.

More turn in pressure is required. (quickly gotten used to and forgotten)

It feels different in longitudinal seams and grooves because you're feeling each edge go on and off the groove/seam.

It tends to track more in car tire width grooves, so extra attention is needed in that situation.

Some of this can be aggravated by a worn front tire, and thus alleviated by a fresh front tire, as has been noted by riders here.

Most riders tend to develop minor riding traits to compensate for the oddities of the CT. Using more body motion when initiating turns, paying more attention to ruts in the road and staying out of them, being more aware of lane position, etc. None of these detract from safe riding, and in fact tend to increase rider awareness, which is a good thing, regardless of what tire you choose to run.

At this point in time I don't even notice the CT. I suspect it's gotten a little easier and more moto like as it's worn in, but I'm simply very used to it now too. After all, the CT remains consistent in feel throughout it's life. Unlike a moto tire that starts out awesome and begins going down hill right away until it's handling sucks by the time you wear it out.

 
You give up that great neutral feel where you only need to think about turning and you're going that way. If you live for the twisties, don't put a CT on your bike. If you do distance rides, but still like to play some in the twisties, the CT isn't a big deal. You will realize that you are working harder in the tight stuff, but it's not a deal breaker unless that is the bulk of your riding.
This is what I was looking for...thanks OC.

To answer your question honestly and seriously, I'd have to describe what kind of rider I am first.
Living in Florida...
Thanks RH. I'm actually very familiar with FL. I grew up in Merritt Island over by the cape and still have family down near WPB that I visit often. I completely comprehend how it has been a positive for you across the board. It is a different environment when you can "see" the next town dead ahead miles before you get there. :derisive:

Sorry to hear about your untimely death. Glad to see you're still posting, though.
I'm thinking about installing a steering wheel in place of the bars.
That's the spirit...

So it looks like I'm not ready for this grape koolaid yet. I much prefer wild berry. I really DO enjoy throwing this beast around in anger here in So Cal. It's a matter of personal pride in accomplishment to see no chicken strips on the rubber and have some scrapes on the pegs. Tells me I'm still alive.

You guys enjoy your solutions. I might be ready to join the darkside in 10 years or so...but not yet. And thanks for being patient.

Cheers,

W2

 
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You give up that great neutral feel where you only need to think about turning and you're going that way. If you live for the twisties, don't put a CT on your bike. If you do distance rides, but still like to play some in the twisties, the CT isn't a big deal. You will realize that you are working harder in the tight stuff, but it's not a deal breaker unless that is the bulk of your riding.
This is what I was looking for...thanks OC.
And that's another part of this equation, knowing what you like and how you ride. The prime reason for the CT is cost/longevity. It does what we need it to do, but it's not a total better package than a moto tire. It does some things better, some things not as well and the bulk of riding equally well.

I try to steer folks away from the CT if their riding style is almost all twisties, simply because the Moto tire works better there. This is not to say that the CT can't do them, it's just more work. Over time, I've gotten to the point where I don't notice the extra effort unless I spend the whole day in the sub 35 mph twisties. Which, honestly, I seldom do. I go places with my FJR much more than I go for short day rides. Neither is bad, just different.

 
I try to steer folks away from the CT if their riding style is almost all twisties, simply because the Moto tire works better there. This is not to say that the CT can't do them, it's just more work. Over time, I've gotten to the point where I don't notice the extra effort unless I spend the whole day in the sub 35 mph twisties. Which, honestly, I seldom do. I go places with my FJR much more than I go for short day rides. Neither is bad, just different.
Good points, all, Eric.

However what I don't get is if someone is spending most of their time in the twisties, and spending most of their farkle money on new peg feelers, than WTF are they doing on an FJR? There are certainly better ride options out there for such innate squidliness. :p

 
... what I don't get is if someone is spending most of their time in the twisties, and spending most of their farkle money on new peg feelers, than WTF are they doing on an FJR? There are certainly better ride options out there for such innate squidliness. :p
For me it's the compromise at the core of the FJR. I don't have to buy two bikes. This one can provide me with a lot in both (and other) directions in the same machine I guess. I do love driving with precision at speed. I live for it actually. I really do believe I have an addiction problem...I like that adrenaline rush.

That's why a CT would be a step backward for me personally.

Thanks, RH, and the others for all the info.

Cheers,

W2

 
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However what I don't get is if someone is spending most of their time in the twisties, and spending most of their farkle money on new peg feelers, than WTF are they doing on an FJR? There are certainly better ride options out there for such innate squidliness. :p
Well crap, if I just never aged beyond 23 I'd be riding everywhere on a Gixxer. <_< But that didn't happen. We're all different. I meet some FJR riders and just don't get why they own the bike. Like the guy years back that bitched about the heat and finally admitted he was cruising at 35 in FL heat checking out babes on the beach, in shorts. For some it's simply compromise, others it's about looking good. :rolleyes:

I can understand the compromise part. Be it a capable bike in the twisties that can still ride to the next state for twisties there, or a bike that will handle solo and two up comfortably. Many more reasons.

The Darkside isn't for everyone. It is a viable option for some though. This thread is about sharing what we learn. Both so people can decide to go Darkside, and so they can decide not to. Whatever suits their needs.

 
Don't forget Decals are available as well:

darksidefjr.jpg


I now have 15K miles on mine. I have used it for the Streetmasters class which ran on the Horsethief Mile track at Willow Springs, and in the Ride Like a Pro Class, where the instructor took it for a spin around the Iron Cross on his first effort. Also have used it in the Land of Enchantment rally and the LowCal 250 rally, and will be using it on a little trip this August from Denver to Spartanburg, South Carolina by a very indirect route...

 
Actually, I'm just curious...not at all a disbeliever. But I am also not yet ready to drink the koolaid. The original question was a simple one and it still stands unanswered. Again, take your collective time but please be precise.
What, if any, are the handling details one must give up (recall that nothing comes for free) to gain the benefits of this mod? There has to be something that you folks notice...

Curious,

W2
To answer your question honestly and seriously, I'd have to describe what kind of rider I am first.

Living in Florida, the switchbacks, high-speed sweepers and mountain passes are few and far between :D

I use my FJR 90% as a "daily driver" and 10% as a "Mobile Decompression Device" so I'd have to say that scraping bar-ends and mirrors aren't part of my riding routine, so I can't honestly say what I've "lost" in handling characteristics, at least as far as it goes for apex strafing. I CAN say that for the VERY few twisty parts I encounter in my rides, I actually have a larger confidence envelope with the CT than I did with a MT.

And when it comes to any hydroplaning issue, I haven't seen it. And trust me, Central Florida gets a LOT of rain, which only keeps my off the Feej if it's raining when my day starts. I don't ride if it's already raining, but my Frog Togs are a constant companion because it can rain, and usually does, just about every afternoon between April and November. I've found the CT gives me MORE traction in the wet than a MT does, hence the confidence boost.

Remember, we're putting SPORT CTs on our Feejers, not rock-hard, 80,000 mile econobox tires.

What we need is to get HaulinAshe to do a Darkside run through the mountains and report back. It seems no one believes those of us already on the Darkside, so perhaps someone whose tire reviews are respected and trusted can dial-in a car tire-equipped FJR and give a review.

But then, who'd believe THAT over what's already locked in someone's head who's never tried it?

So, to answer your original question, "What, if any, are the handling details one must give up (recall that nothing comes for free) to gain the benefits of this mod? " I'd have to say, for my driving, I've given up absolutely nothing. But I HAVE gained a tire that will last me more than 6,000 miles (or 10,000 if I'm extremely lucky) AND has boosted my personal handling envelope to the point that when I AM pushing it, I worry more about my front washing out than I do about losing traction "out back."

Jes' Sayin'

======

WELL......... RW, that is exactly why I put one on my FJR and all who know me.... know I will put it to the edge an give it a proper test !!!

Today I am playing with tire pressures and a little tweeking on the suspension. I have to say though.......... my tire has rounded edges and I rode Brodie's FJR

and my tire feels better to me so far. VERY smooth on the lean-in and I have about 32 - 33 pounds in it right now. :D

B....

 
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Don't forget Decals are available as well:
darksidefjr.jpg


I now have 15K miles on mine. I have used it for the Streetmasters class which ran on the Horsethief Mile track at Willow Springs, and in the Ride Like a Pro Class, where the instructor took it for a spin around the Iron Cross on his first effort. Also have used it in the Land of Enchantment rally and the LowCal 250 rally, and will be using it on a little trip this August from Denver to Spartanburg, South Carolina by a very indirect route...
Where for can such decal be found for purchase in the relm of the Dark Side? Lost minds want to know.

Longrider

 
Letme checke my math!

Currently 28k; projected another 10k = maybe 38k (that's xx,000 miles) on a CT....well now that's an economical sway in itself, especially for those on flat lands and few twisties down this way......Uh Oh, I done read too much of this thread..feeling a bit funny and having some wicked thoughts about CT on my FJR.

 
Letme checke my math!Currently 28k; projected another 10k = maybe 38k (that's xx,000 miles) on a CT....well now that's an economical sway in itself, especially for those on flat lands and few twisties down this way......Uh Oh, I done read too much of this thread..feeling a bit funny and having some wicked thoughts about CT on my FJR.
"The Force is strong in this one!"

 
checking out babes on the beach, in shorts
Who cares about babes in shorts?

The beaches I go to, they're wearin' dental floss. And I'm breakin' my restraining order being there. :devil:
Where's the this thread without pics smilie.... :)

And flat tires are ok for straight roads I reckon...(tryin' ta stay on topic..)

 
checking out babes on the beach, in shorts
Who cares about babes in shorts?

The beaches I go to, they're wearin' dental floss. And I'm breakin' my restraining order being there. :devil:
Where's the this thread without pics smilie.... :)
Go HERE. You can spend a couple of hours "shopping" for a swimsuit for your S.O.

At least, that's what I told mine I was doing! :devil:
Nope. I ain't seen nuthin like that at the creeks round here....

:)

 
Don't forget Decals are available as well:
darksidefjr.jpg


I now have 15K miles on mine. I have used it for the Streetmasters class which ran on the Horsethief Mile track at Willow Springs, and in the Ride Like a Pro Class, where the instructor took it for a spin around the Iron Cross on his first effort. Also have used it in the Land of Enchantment rally and the LowCal 250 rally, and will be using it on a little trip this August from Denver to Spartanburg, South Carolina by a very indirect route...
Where for can such decal be found for purchase in the relm of the Dark Side? Lost minds want to know.

Longrider
Hold your nose and go to www.gl1800riders.com and you will find such a decal. You will have to dig down to the DarkSide folders.

 
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