Going to the Dark Side

[ian]

Popee, you asked about CT pressure on the thread closed by WC. Somewhere in this mountain of info someone ran a heat sensor (I think) on the tire after riding and thought 31 pounds was about right. That's what I ran in the Yokohama and will in the Michelin Pilot to start with. I think the lead dude runs 32 in his Bridgestone. Ian, Iowa

 

[Wee Willy]

I find it hard to believe in today's technological advanced society a motorcycle tire could not be developed to last tens of thousands of miles without needing to be replaced and still offer stability and cornering.

The design and manufacture of top drawer tires is an engineering art. These tires come in many different compounds, mixes and forms and will each aim to maximize some capability or other while maintaining a decent representation in other areas important to customers. You may find it hard to believe that all the things you ask for can't be had simultaneously today, but the fact is it can't be done yet.

How do you know this? The tire market is incredibly competitive...indeed, most tires are really commodities. Kinda like toothpaste. If a manufacturer were to achieve this holy grail you seek then they would begin to corner the market but only until the other manufacturers begin to follow suit. The others will eventually catch up and the tire market will again achieve a balance like you see today where all the major manufacturers are pretty close in their offerings. Indeed, the technological differences from one tire offering to the next in a comparable class are pretty unremarkable.

All things considered, the state of tires today is pretty damn good compared to even 10 years ago. Tire technology is mostly materials technology and the rest is integration and marketing. Rest assured that the manufacturers are doing their best to scratch your itch. This is the real beauty of the free market system...all being played out in front of you at your local tire store.

Cheers,

W2

 

[user 213]

?? I must have missed the thread that got closed. Yes, a IR temp gun was used by one of the riders to check for temp rise and he came up with 31 or 32 psi as the 'sweet spot', which closely matched my testing on pressure rise and edge roll/deflection where I ended up in the same zone. I currently run 31 psi in the BT-019G Potenza A/S tire, which now has 36,600 miles on it and is still not to the wear bars. I'm debating leaving it on for one more rally this month or replacing it a little early. It's harder than I though to wear one of these things out!

edit - found the closed thread and PM'd Popee.

 

[HazzMatt]

Hey guys, so I've nearly completed my conversion to the darkside, but have a couple of questions:

1: the tire seems slightly shifted to the right when looking at the centerline of the tire and center of mudflap. (the centerstand rubs fairly significantly on the right side too, with slight clearance on the left side). Looking at the pics of other darksider's, I can see where some seem slightly shifted left right or not at all. Maybe its a non issue but wanted to check.... On my gen 1 abs there was no additional right side spacer, only a washer. Right swing arm>washer>brake plate>abs plate>wheel. Does that sound right?) (yes I aligned the abs hub correctly, and did the stock torque arm grind mod to fit outside the stock position).

2: I think I'm going to try to just remove the centerstand for now, but will want to grind down the inside feet so I can put it back on with clearance. (I don't have a grinder, only a dremel... Any suggestions for how to grind/cut the metal down?)

Thanks!

 

[user 213]

Hey guys, so I've nearly completed my conversion to the darkside, but have a couple of questions:
1: the tire seems slightly shifted to the right when looking at the centerline of the tire and center of mudflap. (the centerstand rubs fairly significantly on the right side too, with slight clearance on the left side). Looking at the pics of other darksider's, I can see where some seem slightly shifted left right or not at all. Maybe its a non issue but wanted to check.... On my gen 1 abs there was no additional right side spacer, only a washer. Right swing arm>washer>brake plate>abs plate>wheel. Does that sound right?) (yes I aligned the abs hub correctly, and did the stock torque arm grind mod to fit outside the stock position).

2: I think I'm going to try to just remove the centerstand for now, but will want to grind down the inside feet so I can put it back on with clearance. (I don't have a grinder, only a dremel... Any suggestions for how to grind/cut the metal down?)

Thanks!

Your parts sequence is correct. It's too late to ask if the moto tire appear to be shifted to the right also.

While there have been some that clearanced the centerstand, I'm surprised it's enough that you are considering removal of the center stand, (which is a pain). Does the center stand feel loose, side to side? I'm wondering if you could use an additional washer to move the centerstand more to the right or more centered on the tire?

When you tightened the axle nut, did you do so with two wrenches and tighten the pinch bolt last? Or use the pinch bolt to hold the axle from rotating when tightening the axle nut? If the latter, is it possible that the axle is not fully seated in the swing arm end? Just thinking out loud here on possible scenarios that could cause things to be less than centered.

 

[HazzMatt]

Your parts sequence is correct. It's too late to ask if the moto tire appear to be shifted to the right also.
While there have been some that clearanced the centerstand, I'm surprised it's enough that you are considering removal of the center stand, (which is a pain). Does the center stand feel loose, side to side? I'm wondering if you could use an additional washer to move the centerstand more to the right or more centered on the tire?

When you tightened the axle nut, did you do so with two wrenches and tighten the pinch bolt last? Or use the pinch bolt to hold the axle from rotating when tightening the axle nut? If the latter, is it possible that the axle is not fully seated in the swing arm end? Just thinking out loud here on possible scenarios that could cause things to be less than centered.

I like your thinking... I -did-use the pinch bolt, so just loosened that and checked retorque of axle nut, nope good there.

There is some slight left right play in the center stand, but not enough that I could put awasher in...which would be nearly as difficult as taking it off (hadn't realized how hard that would be)

But great ideas.

I never noticed if the moto tire was slightly off or not...but I'm gonna figure it's par for the course unless a test ride tells me something is off.

I'm gonna see if my dremel will do anything with the stand.

 

[pjm204]

Your parts sequence is correct. It's too late to ask if the moto tire appear to be shifted to the right also.
While there have been some that clearanced the centerstand, I'm surprised it's enough that you are considering removal of the center stand, (which is a pain). Does the center stand feel loose, side to side? I'm wondering if you could use an additional washer to move the centerstand more to the right or more centered on the tire?

When you tightened the axle nut, did you do so with two wrenches and tighten the pinch bolt last? Or use the pinch bolt to hold the axle from rotating when tightening the axle nut? If the latter, is it possible that the axle is not fully seated in the swing arm end? Just thinking out loud here on possible scenarios that could cause things to be less than centered.

I like your thinking... I -did-use the pinch bolt, so just loosened that and checked retorque of axle nut, nope good there.

There is some slight left right play in the center stand, but not enough that I could put awasher in...which would be nearly as difficult as taking it off (hadn't realized how hard that would be)

But great ideas.

I never noticed if the moto tire was slightly off or not...but I'm gonna figure it's parnforthe course unless a test ride tells me something is off.

I'm gonna see if my dremel will do anything with the stand.

Head to Harbor freight and pick up a grinder for 10 bucks. I've had mine for years, they work great.

 

[popee]

Just got my 019 grid mounted and look forward to it. Will have to play with pressure to get it suited to my riding style. Shop charged me 8 dollars to mount it and said they had never heard of anyone doing it. Going to try to post picture. Lee

 

[user 213]

Popee, you are Darksider #26 if you care. And what shop did you use? Chain or indi?

HazzMatt - piccie? pjm has a good idea. A carbide bit or the heavy duty cut off wheels might work with the dremel, but a cheap grinder from HF or the local Pawn shop might make things a lot easier. Right angle grinders are pretty cheap and usually the heavy grinding wheels last a long time and hog material off quickly.

 

[RadioHowie]

.....and if you don't wanna grind that C-stand, there's always the Neanderthal's Best Friend:

 

[HazzMatt]

:lol: thanks guys. . .I went to ACE and got a $30 grinder. . . (and a free bucket!)

Fixed it up and went for a little 20 mile ride. . . .weird. I really feel it "waddle" at lower speeds, like the tire can't find a centerline to ride on. . .but at higher speed, it's not bad. Yes, more turn in effort, but surprisingly not as bad as I expected. I'll report back once I've had a chance to put more miles on it, but for now I'm happy it worked (even though it was a bit more of a project than I expected) ($15 for Les Schwab to mount $10 for MotoSport Hillsboro to balance...took 10 weights! :huh: ) But I'm a Darksider now!

 

[popee]

Popee, you are Darksider #26 if you care. And what shop did you use? Chain or indi? IT WAS AN DEPENDENT
HazzMatt - piccie? pjm has a good idea. A carbide bit or the heavy duty cut off wheels might work with the dremel, but a cheap grinder from HF or the local Pawn shop might make things a lot easier. Right angle grinders are pretty cheap and usually the heavy grinding wheels last a long time and hog material off quickly.

 

[user 213]

Good job Matt, you are officially Darksider #27.

The 019G needs about 50-70 miles to stabilize. My first ride I though it felt really greasy and it wandered a lot until I did some mixed speed stuff and got a run on the freeway up to speed, then back on the secondary roads and it felt better. Not sure if it's the release compound, just a new tire taking a set or what, but it definitely needs some miles on it before it starts to feel stable.

 

[RadioHowie]

The 019G needs about 50-70 miles to stabilize. My first ride I though it felt really greasy and it wandered a lot until I did some mixed speed stuff and got a run on the freeway up to speed, then back on the secondary roads and it felt better. Not sure if it's the release compound, just a new tire taking a set or what, but it definitely needs some miles on it before it starts to feel stable.

Can't speak for the Bridgestone, but I experienced the same thing with my Michelin Pilot. After about 100 miles, 99% of the "weirdness" disappeared. Now the only vagueness I ever feel is at just above walking speed. That's when things like truck-ruts, tire snakes or thick intersection paint makes the rear wiggle a little bit left to right.

 

[HazzMatt]

Took the girlfriend on a 30 mile jaunt, and she didn't notice the squirminess (that's a good thing), but I'll admit the tire is feeling better already. The only issue I see at this point is going slow or coming to a stop on an off camber road...the tires tendency to center to the road surface means it really wants to tip inside, so I'll just have to be aware and not dump it

Overall, I'm extremely impressed! I rode some twisties and the tire is predictable, though it does take more force. Once ive put more miles on it I'll push a bit harder, but seems quite capable. I have my SV650 for when i really want to carve, but the fjr with this tire is still going to be fun! .

Big thanks to all you pioneers for testing this out!! (I figure if I'll get 40k out of the tire it will save me about $1000 I would have spent on PR2's...which means the penske shock and this 019 are paid for by the savings)!! Keep up the good work!

(oh, and I'll resize my pic in a couple days...didn't realize it was so large. Also, though you can see how the tire looks slightly to the right of center, I'm starting to believe the rear frame is slightly bent left from the prior owner's driveway drop which impacted the right side. Either way, no effect on handling)

 

[Bustanut joker]

The 019G needs about 50-70 miles to stabilize. My first ride I though it felt really greasy and it wandered a lot until I did some mixed speed stuff and got a run on the freeway up to speed, then back on the secondary roads and it felt better. Not sure if it's the release compound, just a new tire taking a set or what, but it definitely needs some miles on it before it starts to feel stable.

Can't speak for the rest of you, but I experienced the same thing with my Piglet. After about 100 hours, 99% of the "weirdness" disappeared. Now the only vagueness I ever feel is just after sex. That's when things like Butt rubs, force feeding the snake or exceptional thickness makes the rear wiggle a little bit.

Howie Ya sick ***!! Clean it up some would ya?

:jester:

 

[Patriot]

The 019G needs about 50-70 miles to stabilize. My first ride I though it felt really greasy and it wandered a lot until I did some mixed speed stuff and got a run on the freeway up to speed, then back on the secondary roads and it felt better. Not sure if it's the release compound, just a new tire taking a set or what, but it definitely needs some miles on it before it starts to feel stable.

Can't speak for the rest of you, but I experienced the same thing with my Piglet. After about 100 hours, 99% of the "weirdness" disappeared. Now the only vagueness I ever feel is just after sex. That's when things like Butt rubs, force feeding the snake or exceptional thickness makes the rear wiggle a little bit.

Howie Ya sick ***!! Clean it up some would ya?

:jester:

Please get off the 'puter and go sleep it off, will ya... :glare:

 

[RadioHowie]

Please get off the 'puter and go sleep it off, will ya... :glare:

He's PWI again....Posting While Ignorant. :rofl:

 

[Bustanut joker]

Please get off the 'puter and go sleep it off, will ya... :glare:

He's PWI again....Posting While Ignorant. :rofl:

Oh please gimme credit.. Spent the day in the sun working an' I'm just getting started.

I did pull in enough excess cash to replace the wasted rear to actually get a number here... I'll post up for "official" recognition soon.

:jester:

 

[user 213]

I'll distract Bust...

Psst, Cederville, CA Bust, that's where this hottie waits for you.