Going to the Dark Side

[user 213]

@bigjohnsd - You have been added to the Darkside FAQ as Darksider #89. Welcome to the Darkside! I hope it meets your needs and you enjoy the extra traction and reduced tire costs over the miles.

No initiation meetings any time soon. The Jenny McCarthy School of Chrome Removal, (JMSCR), has been temporarily closed due to problems with inspectors being too weak to write their reports after inspecting the school.

 

[RossKean]

I am currently on my second round of Darksiding. The first was several years ago when I ran a Michelin Exalto for around 25,000 miles. I went back to motorcycle tires and was pleased with the transition. This time, I am running a General Tire G-max; installed because of a planned long trip. I am finding this tire delightful for highway riding and even for curvy roads with sweeping turns. It is, however, proving to be much less enjoyable when it comes to slow maneuvers (parking lot stuff) and tighter twisties. An absolute pig for slow riding on uneven surfaces. It is especially bad doing stuff like turning into a parking lot or driveway at anything other than 90° where there is an uneven transition (i.e. 1/2" curb). This is to the point where I don't feel safe in certain situations; having to deploy "outriggers" like an absolute novice. After maybe 8,000 miles, I am planning to switch back (unless I can improve things). I am currently running a Bridgestone T30 GT on the front.

It seems that tire pressure is likely the thing that will have the greatest effect. Right now, I am running around 31 psi. I haven't played much with it but I was wondering what the collective wisdom is on the subject. Just a guess, but I assume that higher pressure could accentuate the symptoms of a square-edged tire and lower pressure might make for more tire "squirm" and feeling of uncertainty. Within reason, I am happy to experiment with it a bit before I decide to turf it. Thanks.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I run a GMax at 31 PSI. I do not have the same level of ill handling at low speeds as you describe.

 

[RossKean]

I run a GMax at 31 PSI. I do not have the same level of ill handling at low speeds as you describe.

Thanks. While I never loved the Exalto, I don't remember the same issues as I am seeing with the Gmax. The other thing I have had done to the bike at the same time as I switched to the CT is having the forks refurbished by the dealer - I didn't have the time to do the work although I installed them. (Bushings, seals and oil). I also had the shock (Penske) refurbished (by someone local) just before the CT change. I wonder if I might have a problem with the front end or with the shock? I'm not even sure what I should check.

I think I will swap back to a MC tire and see how things are working. If all fixed, then I will take it as a lesson learned for the CT. If not, then I'll be digging into front end issues. (suspension settings and steering head bearings/torque).

 

[RaYzerman19]

Even with the Exalto, at parking lot speeds on potholes or uneven curbs, etc. you just have to be conscious as the wider flatter tire can tend to jostle you gently. You have to learn to expect it and compensate by avoiding the pothole, curb, or lean it a bit or speed up a bit... somewhat of a balance of rider input depending on the particular situation, and I can't explain it any better really. The Gmax may have stiffer sidewalls than the Exalto??, which could make it somewhat worse. Tire pressure could also have an effect, but I think you're in the ballpark. Maybe try 29. Not so sure you've got any suspension issues that would cause what you're experiencing, I would think likely not.

 

[Pterodactyl]

We could all be experiencing the same thing, but tolerating and reacting to it differently. Each of us has our own expectations and limits we will accept. No one is right or wrong, but don't accept anything that makes you uncomfortable riding the bike. I love the FJR with the CT and will ride it most anywhere, but it is not my first choice for trips in town or even on very twisty switchback type roads. For those I much prefer my Super T.

 

[Twigg]

I have ridden the G-Max (at 32 psi) for 20 000 miles now. I have exactly the same experience. Actually, slow-speed maneuvering isn't a problem, but the off-90 degree transitions are the one thing I warned Allen Hatcher about when I loaned him my bike.

When you transition at an angle, onto a different surface usually with a small lip or bump, there is a definite tendency for the tire to attempt to "stand the bike up", or go go straight ... It is disconcerting but not in any way a problem once you are expecting it. In all other respects I simply forget that I am riding a car tire, other than being extremely thankful it is there on dirt roads, or in the rain.

Allen had never ridden a CT before, and when I handed over my bike he looked a bit nervous about it. When he got back I asked him how he found it ... his reply "What car tire?"

 

[RossKean]

OK. After around 9,000 miles, I just swapped out the General Tire GMAX and put a PR2 on the rear. I installed the CT in preparation for what was to be a LONG motorcycle tour. (Trip was cut short, but that's another story)

I don't know whether it was me, the specific tire, inflation pressure or something else but I'm pretty sure I am done with my (second) Darkside experiment. A total of around 35,000 miles on car tires on this bike and I have to say, the first 5 minutes of the test ride with the new PR2 brought a smile to my face. Feels like riding a sports car after man-handling a one ton truck with manual steering.

I'm not one who lives for the twisties and I really wanted to like this tire but there is no way I could be happy with it unless covering thousands of miles on the slab was my primary objective. It was actually remarkably good running on the Interstates and not too bad on moderately curvy roads. Gave me good confidence in heavy rain as well. Tight turns, low speed maneuvers and uneven surfaces, on the other hand, were actually a bit frightening. This was to the point where actually did not feel entirely safe!

If someone wants a barely used GMAX for cheap, I have got one for you. Might even throw in the stainless steel rear brake stay. It would have to be a pickup in New Brunswick; I'm not shipping it!

I won't say "never again" but I think it is very unlikely that I will try Darksiding this bike again.

 

[Twigg]

I won't say "never again" but I think it is very unlikely that I will try Darksiding this bike again.

The Forum seems to split a little dependent on use. Some will never use a car tire, others recognize the benefits but prefer a MC tire, and some now use a CT exclusively.

In the parking lot of the IBR hotel, most of the FJRs seemed to be wearing Car Tires, and for that kind of event it is easy to understand why. There is very little in the way of canyon carving, or miles of twisties ridden just for fun. What there is are a vast variety of roads needed to get to specific destinations, in all weathers and any part of the country.

With those requirements, the longevity and the extra traction in the wet is welcome, as is the better manners on unmade roads.

If I were spending a lot of time doing both kinds of riding, I'd probably get a second rear wheel and keep both tires either mounted, or ready to mount on the bike.

 

[RossKean]

If I had a second rear wheel, I might consider leaving a car tire mounted for specific "missions". For everyday riding and especially for fun trips, the tradeoff of handling for longevity is not worth it to me. As I said, the tire was a pleasure to have on the bike blasting down the slab at 80+ mph but not for anything else. As far as I am concerned, the interstates are a means of getting to where you want to ride.

 

[Twigg]

I won't say "never again" but I think it is very unlikely that I will try Darksiding this bike again.

The Forum seems to split a little dependent on use. Some will never use a car tire, others recognize the benefits but prefer a MC tire, and some now use a CT exclusively.

In the parking lot of the IBR hotel, most of the FJRs seemed to be wearing Car Tires, and for that kind of event it is easy to understand why. There is very little in the way of canyon carving, or miles of twisties ridden just for fun. What there is are a vast variety of roads needed to get to specific destinations, in all weathers and any part of the country.

With those requirements, the longevity and the extra traction in the wet is welcome, as is the better manners on unmade roads.

If I were spending a lot of time doing both kinds of riding, I'd probably get a second rear wheel and keep both tires either mounted, or ready to mount on the bike.

 

[user 213]

RossKean - I would suggest that unless you never plan to ride farther from home than you can return the same day, leave the brake stay in place. You just never know what trip might be saved because you were "CT Ready". I was a little surprised that the two FJRs in the IBR parking lot that were running moto tires didn't take that step, just in case. IIRC, both required a tire change during the rally, but at checkpoints, per their plan.

It comes down to how you use the bike. I didn't use the FJR for fun short rides. Every ride was fun, most rides were taking me places. For me, every ride is fun and slab Vs two lane has no meaning, all are fun roads for me. YMMV.

 

[RossKean]

RossKean - I would suggest that unless you never plan to ride farther from home than you can return the same day, leave the brake stay in place. You just never know what trip might be saved because you were "CT Ready". I was a little surprised that the two FJRs in the IBR parking lot that were running moto tires didn't take that step, just in case. IIRC, both required a tire change during the rally, but at checkpoints, per their plan.
It comes down to how you use the bike. I didn't use the FJR for fun short rides. Every ride was fun, most rides were taking me places. For me, every ride is fun and slab Vs two lane has no meaning, all are fun roads for me. YMMV.

I guess I will probably leave the stainless flat brake stay on the bike. Works the same as the original.

I agree that all rides are fun (for me), but the experience was diminished by the car tire (for me). No regrets but after trying twice (a few years apart), I think it is very unlikely that I will go back to the CT other than in an emergency of some sort. Something on the order of 35,000 miles on CT so I think I gave it a fair shake.

 

[bigjohnsd]

I have put just over 5,000 on my BFG since July 5th. As others have said it is delightful on the highway and in the wet. I have a new set of Angel GTs coming this week. Not going to dispose of the BFG, but for the riding I like to do at home, this is too much like work. I could be persuaded to go the second wheel route, it's not a hard swap.

 

[supertankerm60a3]

All right, I have used the search and looked through quite a few posts.

I have an extra wheel and am ready to put a car tire on for the commuting miles. (with the option to throw on the PR4 for fun riding) I am looking at the (Bridgestone or Michelin) Ecopia. Has anyone used one of these?

Thanks

 

[Twigg]

All right, I have used the search and looked through quite a few posts.
I have an extra wheel and am ready to put a car tire on for the commuting miles. (with the option to throw on the PR4 for fun riding) I am looking at the (Bridgestone or Michelin) Ecopia. Has anyone used one of these?

Thanks

The trailer version, or the truck style?

Which did you have in mind?

 

[supertankerm60a3]

I am assumeing it is the truck version if that is the two choices. all I know about it is it is a 205 50/17. It was not particularly stiff in the sidewall.

 

[Twigg]

I am assumeing it is the truck version if that is the two choices. all I know about it is it is a 205 50/17. It was not particularly stiff in the sidewall.

I'm fairly confident no one else will be using this tire.

The popular tires are all described as "All Season, Performance". Usually they would be fitted to cars with slightly more "sporty" pretensions.

 

[user 213]

I am assumeing it is the truck version if that is the two choices. all I know about it is it is a 205 50/17. It was not particularly stiff in the sidewall.

Err, no, it's not. The truck version is for big rigs. There is also a passenger car version. The Ecopia name refers to Bridgestone's line of eco friendly, low rolling resistance tires that are supposed to be "fuel efficient".

The EP422 passenger version LINK is an all season tire. V or H rated versions are available. It's supposed to be quiet and good on mpg, with decent tread life. One of the tricks they use to get lower rolling resistance is to have a shallower tread depth on a new tire. Not sure what this means in terms of the Ecopia's tread life.

Some interesting reading. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=177

From Tire Rack, specs show it with 10/32" thread depth and list it as a 640AA tire. Tread wear is warrantied for 5 years/70k miles. That does make me wonder how performance oriented it might be. I see nothing that would turn me away from using it on the FJR, though I don't think the radius of the edge of the tire is as rounded as the old Potenza 019G which is no longer available, (I think). Hard to tell in pictures. The radius at the edge of the tire is what makes some tires better than others for ease of turn in on moto use. The Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S had a very nice radius at the edge.

 

[Niehart]

"The Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S had a very nice radius at the edge."

Are these still available? If not, what has Michelin replaced them with?