grumpypoos Gen 1 transmission repair

[HotRodZilla]

So, there doesn't seem to be crazy wear on your forks; although, they shouldn't have any marks on them. Your dogs are a different story. Like you, I'm wondering if someone wasn't speed shifting, or even worse, if maybe air ended up in a neglected clutch line, so the clutch wasn't engaging and shifts were being made against spinning dogs. I guess at this point, it doesn't matter. I'm just impressed with how fast you're moving on this!

 

[escapefjrtist]

Nice job grumpy, hope the reassembly goes well for you!

--G

 

[grumpypoo]

Uh oh gents.

Looks like the tranny in my bike right now is an '08 I will be making sure all the gears match an '05 tomorrow or I'll have an '08 trans for sale!

 

[grumpypoo]

Sooo

2,6,10 and 33 have to be reused, but everything else (gear wise) is swappable. very happy.

What's interesting on the '08 they have an extra washer plate? I don't see the harm in adding this.

So essentially I will just swap over the required items and throw them back in the engine.

I get my bolts Wednesday so I'll be putting it back together this week sometime! If I can get the clutch boss in time I may be riding Monday :3

 

[grumpypoo]

I'm just impressed with how fast you're moving on this!

Really? I thought I was moving slow to be honest.

 

[rPGoatBoy]

IIRC the gear dogs on the input shaft were updated in '08 with more dogs. Shouldn't be an issue if you swap in the entire '08 input shaft assembly. Also, IIRC, the layshaft assembly is exactly the same from 2003-2015, but check the part numbers on the parts fiche to verify I'm not blowing smoke.

 

[wfooshee]

On your diagram, number 33 is the gear that meshes with the middle gear shaft. It is different than the gear on your original bike. It has a different number of teeth (which is the output ratio change from Gen-I to Gen-II.) The gear on the other shaft that it meshes with has the same number of teeth between gens, but I would bet that it's slightly different in diameter and/or tooth profile, and even though it's 35 teeth on both gens, it's a different part number between gens.

What I'm getting at is: use the gear from your original transmission in that position. It and the bearing next to it both slide right off of the shaft so it should be an easy substitution.

The other differences between the gens are due to changes in the dog design that was mentioned earlier. The forks, the drum, everything that touches something from the old bike is the same as it was on yours, except that output gear. If you try to use the one that came with the 2008 transmission, I would expect Bad Things to happen. Put your original part on that shaft.

 

[grumpypoo]

The forks, the drum, everything that touches something from the old bike is the same as it was on yours, except that output gear.

Actually the drum is completely different. My drum has one little slot thingy on the end to go into the case. The new one has two? Possible an Automatic tranny i've got, but the gears are the same.

So basically I will be ok using everything EXCEPT number 33 correct?

 

[rPGoatBoy]

The forks, the drum, everything that touches something from the old bike is the same as it was on yours, except that output gear.

Actually the drum is completely different. My drum has one little slot thingy on the end to go into the case. The new one has two? Possible an Automatic tranny i've got, but the gears are the same.

So basically I will be ok using everything EXCEPT number 33 correct?

Pics, we've seen AE shift drums before (Thanks Jamesk!) And Walt's right, I forgot about that Gen 1 to Gen 2 difference on Gear #33. Everything else should be the same though. In fact, why don't YOU show US the difference between a Gen 1 #33 and a Gen 2 #33....

 

[grumpypoo]

Pics, we've seen AE shift drums before (Thanks Jamesk!) And Walt's right, I forgot about that Gen 1 to Gen 2 difference on Gear #33. Everything else should be the same though. In fact, why don't YOU show US the difference between a Gen 1 #33 and a Gen 2 #33....

Alright once I get off work i'm gonna go continue to work on the bike today is clean everything day. The girlfriend isn't happy i'm using the dishwasher to clean my parts but I think I can probably sneak them in without her noticing

 

[grumpypoo]

Just picked up a Clutch Boss for $40 shipped!!

 

[grumpypoo]

if maybe air ended up in a neglected clutch line, so the clutch wasn't engaging and shifts were being made against spinning dogs.

You know this actually makes a lot of sense. The more and more I think about it. Whenever I did MY first oil change with the bike I bled the system. There was a lot of air for awhile until I fudged up and sucked more air in.

I think we discovered the cause now we just need someone way more technical than myself to agree.

The shift forks are no where near as worn as the gear dogs. This is the only thing that could explain the issue at least in my mind currently.

Unless this is the second time this has happened and the PO just replaced the forks last time.

 

[grumpypoo]

Also while I'm thinking about it.

Since the engine has been upside down for a few days obviously lil has crept it's way into the combustion chamber. Looks like it's made it's way out of the exhaust ports as well and intake (firing sequence that's open of course so 1&4 exhaust and 2&3 intake leaking oil)

Any concern other than a big puff of smoke when I finally start it?

 

[grumpypoo]

Soo here is a comparison between '08 and '05. I took some measurements and I'll let you be the judge. Clear differences between the two.

Here is the '08

Here is the '05

Here they are side by side the one on the left is '05

 

[grumpypoo]

We have a shifting '08 transmission (franken-tranny) inside an '05

I didn't rebuild the bottom end just the top looked worn

 

[HotRodZilla]

COOL!

 

[NTXFJR]

Franken tranny...that just sounds so wrong lol. Sounds like it's going relatively well for you. Are we having fun yet?

 

[grumpypoo]

I think I might have broke something

Before I left I figured I'd give the engine a few turns by hand to make sure the pistons don't get frozen. Got about 3/4 of a turn then it stopped dead in its track. I was using a little wrench as to not apply to much torque. I thought hrm? Maybe too much oil in the cylinder and won't compress. I rolled the motor and pulled the spark plugs. Tried again notta. So I grabbed a socket and spun it backwards 3/4 of a turn (moved freely) then back forward same issue. Did it a bit quicker thinking of might be oil and wanted to squirt that **** out. I hear a bang. Could've been the various tools I have around the engine hitting the block as I was moving the motor, but did that twice and now it spins freely (no noise and no resistance).

The hell happened? I'm not so certain there is a bent valve (if I bent a valve by hand I will declare myself the messiah and travel the lands). I guess a leak down won't hurt, but cylinder 3 leaks a lot of oil in the intake side. Not as much as cylinder 2.

I'm gonna check the timing and see if the tard that owned it before me has it a tooth off.

 

[HotRodZilla]

WHY would you do that?? What would make you think the pistons would freeze? It's only been a week or two. Unless it's out of time, I don't see what you could have hurt, but guys with more knowledge than me will be along to berate...I mean help you. IF you didn't break anything, stop screwing around, and put it back together. Lol...I REALLY hope you didn't hurt something.

 

[grumpypoo]

I will add before I took it apart the engine would make compression right about 3/4 of a turn and be realitivly hard to turn (it's compression gentlemen). I'm think there was just oil make it hard. I didn't crank down hard. I could've used more force on a screw driver.

As for what makes me think they would freeze? Rainy here in Texas with a motor in a garage it's more of a rust prevention on the walls.

I think it's OK honestly. A bent valve would/should make noise consentently IIRC.

As for the noise? No idea and quite frankly I'm not too concerned unless **** gets hairy when I flipp it back over.

Now tomorrow is putting the bottom end back on (MUH BOLTZ!!!!1!1!11!oneone)

I cleaned *most* of the gasket area. Once again these cases have been split. I can see where someone nicked the surface area before I even cleaned (I only use plastic tablet digitizer removers very soft). I'll have to post the pics, but I'm curious why the hell this case was opened.