SockMonkey
Makin' Some Noise
Ah, come on, Ralph. Go easy on the Kiwi. You know that damned sheep syphilis really wreaks havoc on their brains..!
Handgun on a bike
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chrisflock
FJR nose gunner
That's pretty sweet considering that the crime rate in New Zealand is higher per capita that it is in the US...
Of course, I got that data off the internet, so who knows...
Jonozz
Member
yes your right Checkswrecks
my comment was probaly taken out of context, i do apologise if anyone took offence.
but it must be a sad day when you can't jump on your bike for bit of a cruise without having the need to pack a gun in the luggage
Our crime rate might be on a par with the States if you believe everything you read on the net, but a low percentage involves firearms.
and as for the sheep shagging, well it was the bloody Poms who introduced sheep into NZ and I believe the States back in the 1800s, so we in NZ are only following the trends of our big brothers !!!!!
bikerskier
Well-known member
- Joined
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I still don't think you get it. Most folks, and I mean an overwhelming number of people do not feel the need to carry a weapon, but those that do might do so for a variety of reasons. It may be like an insurance policy that you never expect to need but having it gives some comfort, or it might be to help out in a situation that a weapon may make a difference, ie: dog atttack on a child, to not be a victim of a robbery or any imaginable event. However, to assume that most Americans feel a need to carry a weapon is plain stupid and uninformed.
Odd, I know a lot of Kiwis who are much more worldly and I like them a lot!
jeremyr62
Well-known member
Well, without getting into it too deeply, all I can say as a European is I find this thread incredible and truly bizarre. The idea of taking a lethal weapon on a bike trip just blows my mind. I honestly did not realise it was legal anywhere in the US for members of the public to carry guns. (cancels next trip to Florida).
ndivita
Well-known member
Don't get too excited. Without getting into the details of it, some states, not most, allow open carry of firearms; most states, not all, allow concealed carry of firearms, with a legal permit. We also have a federal rule that allows you to transport a firearm from your point of origin to your point of destination across state lines if you lawfully possess it in each and as long as firearm and ammo are kept separate and locked even if is is not lawful in one of the intermediary states.
In our oh so diverse land, only a dope completely abdicates self-defense let alone home-defense to the police, and in case you have not noticed, it's a dangerous world out there. Law enforcement here is into taping off crime scenes and interviewing witnesses unless they happen to get to you on time. Folks in the U.S. with permits to carry firearms are the pick of the litter from the standpoint of criminal record, know how etc. Not to say everyone is perfect who lawfully carries a gun of course.... And by the way, we have the Second Amendment to the Constitution, D.C. v. Heller, and a healthy inborn skepticism of strong central governments although that is a bit difficult to recognize these days.
If you are a European I suspect you may have a few more issues to get a permit to carry even if you wanted to, even in Florida where they REALLY like firearms. As far as I am concerned, a gun is just a tool, a machine; it is not an extension of machismo or political philosophy, though I detect that many seemingly rational people think anyone who carries a gun is a budding Timothy McVeigh.
jeremyr62
Well-known member
We have crime here too for sure but arming oneself with a lethal weapon just in case seems so extreme a response. I cannot believe the US is that violent a society to justify carrying a gun. It's all about perception I suppose. I prefer to live in a country knowing Joe Public cannot access firearms at all.
lnewlf
Well-known member
Read recently that on your side of the pond-England specifically- that knives are the hot settup. Reported that there is one stapping every minute. Quite a lot of that over here too. Gun or knife, nature [human] finds a way..
ndivita
Well-known member
Typical thinking of leftists here. Instead of solving the problem by not carrying a gun you want a rule that tells everyone what they can and cannot do in regard to firearms ownership (forgetting for the moment that people who commit crimes with firearms are not frequently impressed by laws stating "Joe Public cannot access firearms at all." Speaking for myself, I don't want to live in a country with a government that doesn't trust its citizens to keep and bear arms. That is a government I don't trust. You really should dust off some U.S. history before weighing in on how firearms are viewed in the U.S. I promise to do the same before offering an opinion on firearms laws and regulations in Ireland.
fjrrider
aka "sprocket"
I'm curious, what would be a conservative response, to defending yourself "just in case"?
I think anywhere in the world is violent enough to justify carrying a gun.
Your last statement of preferance can very easily be changed, I just hope for your sake it never comes to that!
jeremyr62
Well-known member
You all sound well practised in rebutting "leftist" arguments. Which I'm not BTW. It just seems crazy to me to give members of the public access to something so lethal. Of course criminals get them (and pretty rarely I suspect) use them on members of the public but I still don't see how that justifies public access. Putting more guns into circulation just seems mad to me. Man, it would be a boring world if one couldn't express ones opinion about controversial subjects on a m/cycle website.
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
Lots of interesting comments here (as Reno John would say), with a lot of very interesting side trips to enliven the thread, one I've enjoyed browsing. To those who have posted actual useful comments and links here, thank you. To those interesting and entertaining posters, thank you also.
As for me, a recent conversation with a Canadian forum friend gave me some insight about the view from the north of us wild and wooly Americans: it seems we ALL carry guns, whether on or off our bikes, all the time, and we're always just looking for a chance or excuse to shoot it out. Well, it's not surprising. Not many places have the history, and fairly recent history, that we have here with guns of all kinds, even going so far as to incorporate it into our Constitution (although not everyone agrees that it's really "there"). I own a few handguns and long guns. I no longer hunt, and never carry the handguns; in fact, they're all locked up with individual gun locks and are secured inside a locked gunsafe. I recently bought a handgun-concealing quick access fanny pack but have never used it, and likely never will. It was a good buy, and maybe nice to have, someday. Plus I've never ridden with a gun on my person or anywhere on my motorcycles, and doubt I ever would. That, by the way, is pretty much solely because of the legal problems and potential difficulties carrying could bring me, not because of a philosophical reluctance to have that as an option.
For self defense, I have carried a can of "Counter Assault" bear spray on some camping trips, and although the label specifically states it is "Not for Use on Humans," I'd much prefer it to a handgun in any scenario I can imagine where I might be tempted to pull and/or use a handgun. The can states it has a range of 30 feet, certainly farther than I'd need in any desperate self-defense situation. And I'd be far less likely to hesitate too long to use this product than I would to fire a gun at another person. Plus I'd feel much more confident about using it against a group of any size I might be faced with than I would with a handgun, whatever the capacity. Finally, I was able to carry it even into Canada without significant problems at the border crossing--and I did declare it. (Of course, they know bears.) There is a very positive-feeling safety clip on the trigger mechanism that I am confident would prevent accidental discharge. I was even comfortable letting my 21-year old daughter take this along on a recent camping trip--and not into bear country. With, of course, a brief lecture on its use and some advice about when it might be necessary.
I'm sure a person would have to face some tough questions if they discharged it at someone, especially if it resulted in serious injury to the eyes or lungs of the "victim." That's fine; I'll be glad to answer any questions anyone may have, since I would be sitting in a holding cell, safe and alive, if it came to that. And I wouldn't have to spend the rest of my life wondering if I really had to kill that guy who seemed so scary, when he was alive.
As for me, a recent conversation with a Canadian forum friend gave me some insight about the view from the north of us wild and wooly Americans: it seems we ALL carry guns, whether on or off our bikes, all the time, and we're always just looking for a chance or excuse to shoot it out. Well, it's not surprising. Not many places have the history, and fairly recent history, that we have here with guns of all kinds, even going so far as to incorporate it into our Constitution (although not everyone agrees that it's really "there"). I own a few handguns and long guns. I no longer hunt, and never carry the handguns; in fact, they're all locked up with individual gun locks and are secured inside a locked gunsafe. I recently bought a handgun-concealing quick access fanny pack but have never used it, and likely never will. It was a good buy, and maybe nice to have, someday. Plus I've never ridden with a gun on my person or anywhere on my motorcycles, and doubt I ever would. That, by the way, is pretty much solely because of the legal problems and potential difficulties carrying could bring me, not because of a philosophical reluctance to have that as an option.
For self defense, I have carried a can of "Counter Assault" bear spray on some camping trips, and although the label specifically states it is "Not for Use on Humans," I'd much prefer it to a handgun in any scenario I can imagine where I might be tempted to pull and/or use a handgun. The can states it has a range of 30 feet, certainly farther than I'd need in any desperate self-defense situation. And I'd be far less likely to hesitate too long to use this product than I would to fire a gun at another person. Plus I'd feel much more confident about using it against a group of any size I might be faced with than I would with a handgun, whatever the capacity. Finally, I was able to carry it even into Canada without significant problems at the border crossing--and I did declare it. (Of course, they know bears.) There is a very positive-feeling safety clip on the trigger mechanism that I am confident would prevent accidental discharge. I was even comfortable letting my 21-year old daughter take this along on a recent camping trip--and not into bear country. With, of course, a brief lecture on its use and some advice about when it might be necessary.
I'm sure a person would have to face some tough questions if they discharged it at someone, especially if it resulted in serious injury to the eyes or lungs of the "victim." That's fine; I'll be glad to answer any questions anyone may have, since I would be sitting in a holding cell, safe and alive, if it came to that. And I wouldn't have to spend the rest of my life wondering if I really had to kill that guy who seemed so scary, when he was alive.
Checkswrecks
Well-known member
I've got plenty of guns, but respectfully disagree. Some examples:
I virtually never stop directly behind cars at lights & the last time I felt threatened was on my FJR at a light in DC. I work downtown & my son goes to U of Md, so if traffic jams, I'll run the side streets thru DC if I need to get to campus. Anyway, as some stoner grabbed my arm, I simply dropped the clutch, went between cars, and watched him bounce off a fender. It sure happened faster than trying to go for a weapon. If I'd gotten off the bike I would've been in a bad situation.
Once long ago, an old Honda I had in college died at a gas station while I was lost in a REALLY bad section of East St. Louis. The place really sucked so bad the locals looked like they ate the street signs. I pushed the bike to the barred gas station window, gave the owner $20 to put it in his locked trash gate, and called for a tow truck to pick up me & the bike. The guy with the business came out & threatened all the locals who'd started to gather & I gave the tow-truck driver a tip to make it a quick exit, which he did. Both yelled at me for being in the wrong part of town and questioning where my dumb-*** lack of common sense was. They were both right, of course! That's what I got for trying to push how far I could get to the next gas. If I'd had a gun in that E St. Louis situation, one of the locals would've probably had a bigger one, and there sure were more of them than I would've had bullets. I've gotten out of tight spots in Colombia and Cameroon (Africa) with no gun, too. Just truly listen to people, have a goal, and use what you have; rather than going straight to ultimate responses.
But then if it came to it, I also grew up with a Marine D.I. for a Dad & the inevitable friends & upbringing that brought.
Bob
Skippy
Well-known member
Having lived in Ireland, England, Scotland France, Spain, Germany, Australia and Belize, I can honestly say, the feeling of carrying a firearm with me at all times makes me feel safer and more in control of my life.
I tried carrying a police officer, however, he was too heavy.
When I lived in Ireland, March 1993-Feb 1994, in Dublin to be precise, I had never, ever, felt more like a victim than in any other country I have stayed in. There is more crime, corruption and crooked people behind every door and window than you can shake a stick at.
I saw kids, younger than 15 throwing Molotov cocktails off of bridges onto motorways down below, at random cars, 18 wheelers being hijacked on a main rd in broad daylight in the City of Dublin, Police stations with burned out vehicles outside their walls, and iron bars on the windows, to keep people out, not in, traveled across the border to Londonderry (yes, I am European) and had to bribe my way back into Ireland because of the para military types on the border collecting a tariff, they had full auto weapons and were in camo with civilian vehicles.
Saw the fear of God put into people by the Organized crime group known as the IRA to anyone who did not support them and their crooked cause, those criminals had guns, and terrorized complete towns without a care in the world.
I have carried in this country since 1995, and have not discharged my weapon at anyone, however, I would rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
Keeping a derringer in my back pocket all the times, a Beretta Tomcat .32acp in the tank bag, and when in the car, a Taurus .44mag stainless snub nose, makes me feel "safer".
I am a sane, normal, average Joe, who does not need to ask for permission to protect myself or my family, from cowans and vagabonds who would cause harm to me or mine, unlike the servants in Europe and Australasia, that is a God given right, not a privilege handed out by any Government.
As a Patriot, I will also help protect others who are in fear of their life, from a forcible felony, and would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
"An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave"
Skippy
I tried carrying a police officer, however, he was too heavy.
When I lived in Ireland, March 1993-Feb 1994, in Dublin to be precise, I had never, ever, felt more like a victim than in any other country I have stayed in. There is more crime, corruption and crooked people behind every door and window than you can shake a stick at.
I saw kids, younger than 15 throwing Molotov cocktails off of bridges onto motorways down below, at random cars, 18 wheelers being hijacked on a main rd in broad daylight in the City of Dublin, Police stations with burned out vehicles outside their walls, and iron bars on the windows, to keep people out, not in, traveled across the border to Londonderry (yes, I am European) and had to bribe my way back into Ireland because of the para military types on the border collecting a tariff, they had full auto weapons and were in camo with civilian vehicles.
Saw the fear of God put into people by the Organized crime group known as the IRA to anyone who did not support them and their crooked cause, those criminals had guns, and terrorized complete towns without a care in the world.
I have carried in this country since 1995, and have not discharged my weapon at anyone, however, I would rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
Keeping a derringer in my back pocket all the times, a Beretta Tomcat .32acp in the tank bag, and when in the car, a Taurus .44mag stainless snub nose, makes me feel "safer".
I am a sane, normal, average Joe, who does not need to ask for permission to protect myself or my family, from cowans and vagabonds who would cause harm to me or mine, unlike the servants in Europe and Australasia, that is a God given right, not a privilege handed out by any Government.
As a Patriot, I will also help protect others who are in fear of their life, from a forcible felony, and would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
"An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave"
Skippy
whataboutbob
Well-known member
" It just seems crazy to me to give members of the public access to something so lethal" The US constitution says it's my right. sorry you don't have that. GOD BLESS THE USA
Reaper
Well-known member
++++++1
Skippy
Well-known member
Yeah, the sooner they get those cars and trucks off the road, the better, at least a minimum should be the drunk drivers, they kill more than any firearms.
And, apparently over 66 million gun owners didn't kill anyone yesterday, doctors kill more people with their sloppiness, on a daily basis, according to my "interweb search"
Skippy
Big-D
Well-known member
I don't understand why some feel the need to apologize for our current laws that allow the American people to exercise their right to own and in some cases carry a weapon, either in plain view or concealed (if a permit is obtained). The reason we may choose to carry, whether concealed or in our suitcase is because we can... period. There is no need to explain ourselves to anyone that might disagree with what is allowed in most states.
To mention someone may cancel their intent to visit the USA because someone may legally carry a gun; I don't think anyone will lose any sleep over your decision. What I find really cool about living where I live, is the right anyone has not to come here and stay home!
To mention someone may cancel their intent to visit the USA because someone may legally carry a gun; I don't think anyone will lose any sleep over your decision. What I find really cool about living where I live, is the right anyone has not to come here and stay home!
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UHOH
Well-known member
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well, you're right on from my perception, especially for M/C touring.
by the way, the original poster should now be done with his road trip; where he asked if he should carry a gun on the M/C tour.
Well, how did it go, where did you go and did you carry your gun on you bike trip?
... any reflections on our over and over again favorite topic?
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jeremyr62
Well-known member
Hardly a fair comparison now. The raison d'etre of a cars, trucks and bikes isn't to kill things.
(Any idea why my post count isn't increasing as I add my learned contriution to this never ending thread? I seem to be stuck on 33)
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