Handguns

[Bounce]

Ever see the video on Cops where the jeweler gets robbed, he then gets a carry permit. A guy starts to walk out of his store and reaches in his pants and pull out a gun. The store owner was actually quicker on the draw but guess what, his safety was on and never got off a shot and the gunman unloaded on him and even came back to steal his watch and pulled the trigger at his head, luckily it was empty. SAFETIES suck, and if you use a gun properly, no finger on trigger until at target, you don't need one!!!

No. The show, C.O.P.S. sucks. they are nothing if they aren't a source of misinformation. that wasn't a design failure. that was an operator error that could be easily avoided with proper and routine practice. the very same event has saved more people than harmed them when a gun was snatched in a grapple and the attacker wasn't able to resolve the manual of arms for the firearm. clearly the shop owner in your scenario failed to do one of the primary things needed when choosing a firearm as a means of self-defense: PRACTICE with the firearm of your choice.

remember it was the mouthpiece officer chosen by the department-of-the-day who removed a Federal Nylclad round from a pistol during a no-knock entry of a home, walked up to the camera, and (while mugging) explained how it was designed to cut "through officer's body armor like a hot knife through butter." Bullocks! It was designed for range use to hold down airborne lead created by the heat and friction of discharge. it burns off (most, if not all) the nylon cladding (Nyl Clad) before it exits the bbl to reduce the amount of lead that is vaporized. several tests of the day showed it's penetration being less than many other similar rounds of the time.

C.O.P.S. is meant to desensitize the viewers to the actions of police forces that are being increasingly militarized. Thanks to that show, many people now see it as reasonable for an LEO to use extreme take-down techniques against citizens without any other justification than that they happened to be nearby when the cameras came on (including jamming people's faces into the sidewalk and using arm-bar holds). If a cop commands them to do something and, as a free-thinking citizen, they dare ask the obvious question, "Why?", that's all she wrote!

The above technical disinformation about ammo, the difference between semi-auto and full-auto firearms, implying how it's worse to have a firearm to defend yourself than not, and a litany of other issues are just a few examples of many.

>whew<

Now back to the revolver vs pistol issue. If I didn't say it earlier, then it was an oversite. I'll agree that for simplicity and an easier manual of arms, the revolver is the better choice. In either case, the new owner should be committed to routine and frequent practice. This instills proper safety practices (or should), increases skill levels, and nurtures a familiarity with the chosen firearm so that operation becomes reflexive (likle how to throttle down, clutch in, shift, clutch out, throttle up). The pistol tends to need a little more effort because of the lighter trigger pull, mechanical safeties, and loading/chambering of ammo.

 

[slick001]

Ever see the video on Cops where the jeweler gets robbed, he then gets a carry permit. A guy starts to walk out of his store and reaches in his pants and pull out a gun. The store owner was actually quicker on the draw but guess what, his safety was on and never got off a shot and the gunman unloaded on him and even came back to steal his watch and pulled the trigger at his head, luckily it was empty. SAFETIES suck, and if you use a gun properly, no finger on trigger until at target, you don't need one!!!

No. The show, C.O.P.S. sucks. they are nothing if they aren't a source of misinformation. that wasn't a design failure. that was an operator error that could be easily avoided with proper and routine practice. the very same event has saved more people than harmed them when a gun was snatched in a grapple and the attacker wasn't able to resolve the manual of arms for the firearm. clearly the shop owner in your scenario failed to do one of the primary things needed when choosing a firearm as a means of self-defense: PRACTICE with the firearm of your choice.

remember it was the mouthpiece officer chosen by the department-of-the-day who removed a Federal Nylclad round from a pistol during a no-knock entry of a home, walked up to the camera, and (while mugging) explained how it was designed to cut "through officer's body armor like a hot knife through butter." Bullocks! It was designed for range use to hold down airborne lead created by the heat and friction of discharge. it burns off (most, if not all) the nylon cladding (Nyl Clad) before it exits the bbl to reduce the amount of lead that is vaporized. several tests of the day showed it's penetration being less than many other similar rounds of the time.

C.O.P.S. is meant to desensitize the viewers to the actions of police forces that are being increasingly militarized. Thanks to that show, many people now see it as reasonable for an LEO to use extreme take-down techniques against citizens without any other justification than that they happened to be nearby when the cameras came on (including jamming people's faces into the sidewalk and using arm-bar holds). If a cop commands them to do something and, as a free-thinking citizen, they dare ask the obvious question, "Why?", that's all she wrote!

The above technical disinformation about ammo, the difference between semi-auto and full-auto firearms, implying how it's worse to have a firearm to defend yourself than not, and a litany of other issues are just a few examples of many.

yeah,

what he said,

and don't F___ with Texas!

https://thearmedcitizen.com/

 

[sparky3008]

Ever see the video on Cops where the jeweler gets robbed, he then gets a carry permit. A guy starts to walk out of his store and reaches in his pants and pull out a gun. The store owner was actually quicker on the draw but guess what, his safety was on and never got off a shot and the gunman unloaded on him and even came back to steal his watch and pulled the trigger at his head, luckily it was empty. SAFETIES suck, and if you use a gun properly, no finger on trigger until at target, you don't need one!!!

No. The show, C.O.P.S. sucks. they are nothing if they aren't a source of misinformation. that wasn't a design failure. that was an operator error that could be easily avoided with proper and routine practice. the very same event has saved more people than harmed them when a gun was snatched in a grapple and the attacker wasn't able to resolve the manual of arms for the firearm. clearly the shop owner in your scenario failed to do one of the primary things needed when choosing a firearm as a means of self-defense: PRACTICE with the firearm of your choice.

remember it was the mouthpiece officer chosen by the department-of-the-day who removed a Federal Nylclad round from a pistol during a no-knock entry of a home, walked up to the camera, and (while mugging) explained how it was designed to cut "through officer's body armor like a hot knife through butter." Bullocks! It was designed for range use to hold down airborne lead created by the heat and friction of discharge. it burns off (most, if not all) the nylon cladding (Nyl Clad) before it exits the bbl to reduce the amount of lead that is vaporized. several tests of the day showed it's penetration being less than many other similar rounds of the time.

C.O.P.S. is meant to desensitize the viewers to the actions of police forces that are being increasingly militarized. Thanks to that show, many people now see it as reasonable for an LEO to use extreme take-down techniques against citizens without any other justification than that they happened to be nearby when the cameras came on (including jamming people's faces into the sidewalk and using arm-bar holds). If a cop commands them to do something and, as a free-thinking citizen, they dare ask the obvious question, "Why?", that's all she wrote!

The above technical disinformation about ammo, the difference between semi-auto and full-auto firearms, implying how it's worse to have a firearm to defend yourself than not, and a litany of other issues are just a few examples of many.

yeah,

what he said,

and don't F___ with Texas!

https://thearmedcitizen.com/

Scenario: Covering your front brake lever or not. How much time does it take to move from not covering it to being able to apply the brake if you are not covering it.

How much time does it take to release a safety? Half a second. Plenty of time to get shot and in the scenario I watched it was that much time the store owner had on the gunman if his safety was off.

In a time of panic such as motorcycle riding fractions of a second are everything.

Just like the public misconception of a 1911 style gun being unsafe with the hammer back and a bullet in the chamber. It still has 2 other safeties, the grip safety and the regular safety.

If your gun is taken from you in a struggle all bets are off anyway.

I for one will never use a safety, you do what you want.

Spec Ops groups needs are addressed; including a quick-connect noise suppressor.
Not all troups are Officers.

You should read a bit about the German millitary under Hitler. Every soldier was issued a handgun not just officers.

 

[Bounce]

Godwin's Law reaffirmed!

By tradition, this thread is now over.

 

[sparky3008]

Godwin's Law reaffirmed!
By tradition, this thread is now over.

The Germany army at that time was extremely affective and we learned a lot from them.

My statements have nothing to do with the beliefs of anyone.

My statement is simply that the German army at that time believed every soldier should have a sidearm and they did everything they could to put a sidearm in the hands of everyone...

 

[Bounce]

Godwin's Law doesn't mention in what context the reference is made. Just that it will be made.

--update--

the below appears to be a little more strident than the last post. it seems that a simple, calm observation is creating an emotional spiral in the responses. my guess is that the admins only allowed this thread to continue because it didn't get emotional and stayed neutrally technical. the correlaries to Godwin's Law (that the thread ends shortly afterwards) usually kick in specifically because of that spiral where Godwin's Law is simply an observeration that the comparison is inevitable. Please note that I've edited this post as an attempt to keep the thread from continuing to spiral off into tangents any more than it already had.

 

[sparky3008]

Godwin's Law doesn't mention in what context the reference is made. Just that it will be made.

So we are not allowed to learn anything from one of the most powerful armies of that time because of this?

That millitary had some of the most advanced weapons, strategies and ideas that we still use today.

If we are to ignore them because the other views of his were evil we are only hurting ourselves.

The German army believed in issuing handguns to every soldier and any person they could give them to because they were cheap affective weapons. This is still my point and we should learn from it also as it was affective. The officers don't need this and is more ceremonial than purposeful...

 

[StexFJR]

Just bought a Kahr PM-9. I really like it. Taking the CCW class this weekend. Wish me luck. I've found out those advocating practice are right on and I need more. Think I'll go to the range tonight.

 

[TriggerT]

If you REALLY want to get good, my advice would be to get involved in competitive shooting. Either USPSA, or IDPA are good, but shooters in either area have the advantage of having to problem solve while they have a gun in their hands, and you will put thousands of rounds down range if you get hooked on either sport.

They are "Games" but until you are willing to practice with people who can shoot you back, they are the best show in town.

 

[StexFJR]

Well I passed the class but I gotta tell you it was way easier than I thought. Good stuff to know.

 

[user 3529]

Personally, I carry a 4" Springfield Armory XD40. I have really enjoyed shooting it. I was looking for a Glock but the salesman was very good! Glad he was, I saved a boat load of money and after shooting friend's Glocks am satisfied I made the right decision. While I admit the Glock is indestructable, the XD feels much more comfortable in my hand.

My buddy has a Buckmark. I am in agreement with everyone here, that gun is sweet! I will eventually have to pick one up myself. Unbelievably accurate (he did add a red dot scope, all the more fun) at virtually any distance.

My advice, if your area has any gun shop/ranges that allow you to fire the used and demos do that. My opinion is that guns are entirely personal preference and some people are gonna love what everyone else hates. Bottom line, if it doesn't feel right in YOUR hand you're not going to be comfortable with it.

 

[TriggerT]

For any of you that own a Springfield XD, if you are ever looking to have any work done on the gun I cannot recommend Canyon Creek highly enough. Check out Canyoncreekcustom.com. Rich is not only a great guy, a Grand Master Class shooter, but does some of the best work on XD's I have ever seen.

No, I don't have any interest in his business, other than he is a friend, and I have NEVER, NOT ONCE, heard of anyone who didn't like the work he jas done on an XD for them.

 

[Gcopter]

I carry a Glock 29 .. 10mm. Sub compact with some major power.

 

[Farkles]

Ok lots of choices.

I use a P90 ruger in 45 APC as a carry. But have question. What about the laws about carrying a concealed weapon? What happens if you go across state lines? I have a carry permit in my home state but it doesn’t mean squat in California. ?

:dribble:

 

[sparky3008]

Ok lots of choices.I use a P90 ruger in 45 APC as a carry. But have question. What about the laws about carrying a concealed weapon? What happens if you go across state lines? I have a carry permit in my home state but it doesn’t mean squat in California. ?

:dribble:

The AZ and Utah CC permits are valid in 20 & 26 other states. Of course it doesn't mean anything in CA or my state MD. Check your specific Carry permit for where it is valid but if you are looking for if it is valid in CA specifically I don't think any permit is valid for CA. Now in Maryland if you need a CC for a specific purpose like you own a jewelry store or are a Private Detective you can get one but us normal citizens are left out to dry!

https://www.azccw.com/right_to_carry_states.htm

https://www.azccw.com/

 

[TriggerT]

Ok lots of choices.I use a P90 ruger in 45 APC as a carry. But have question. What about the laws about carrying a concealed weapon? What happens if you go across state lines? I have a carry permit in my home state but it doesn’t mean squat in California. ?

:dribble:

Don't come to IL or WI with your shooter. Here behind the last section of the Iron Curtain, we are not allowed to carry firearms. That is mainly due to the fact that Chicago and Milwaukee are such safe cities that there is no need for self protection. :dribble:

 

[krashdragon]

Well I passed the class but I gotta tell you it was way easier than I thought. Good stuff to know.

Kinda like the MSF course... now you can go and practice intelligently! <G>

Mary

Ok lots of choices.

I use a P90 ruger in 45 APC as a carry. But have question. What about the laws about carrying a concealed weapon? What happens if you go across state lines? I have a carry permit in my home state but it doesn’t mean squat in California. ?

:dribble:

Don't come to IL or WI with your shooter. Here behind the last section of the Iron Curtain, we are not allowed to carry firearms. That is mainly due to the fact that Chicago and Milwaukee are such safe cities that there is no need for self protection. :dribble:

What if I am camping and get attacked by a bear?

Or a liberal? Sorry, just had to throw that in there!

and I was camping in Wi this summer.....

Didn't see any bear, but did see a couple of mad squirrels...

and have ridden across Il several times this year..... not to say I was carrying or anything...

And totally forgot I had anything with me when the nice Utah Hiway Patrol office stopped to help me when I had a flat in the middle of nowhere Utah...

Hmmm... but the gun wasn't loaded, bullets were in a separate place.... that's not too smart, have to correct it next trip...

Oh yeah, since I is a puny little old lady that couldn't possibly defend herself from robbers or even wild animals, I need to carry a gun, especially since I camp a lot... That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Mary

 

[sparky3008]

Well I passed the class but I gotta tell you it was way easier than I thought. Good stuff to know.

Kinda like the MSF course... now you can go and practice intelligently! <G>

Mary

Ok lots of choices.

I use a P90 ruger in 45 APC as a carry. But have question. What about the laws about carrying a concealed weapon? What happens if you go across state lines? I have a carry permit in my home state but it doesn’t mean squat in California. ?

:dribble:

Don't come to IL or WI with your shooter. Here behind the last section of the Iron Curtain, we are not allowed to carry firearms. That is mainly due to the fact that Chicago and Milwaukee are such safe cities that there is no need for self protection. :dribble:

What if I am camping and get attacked by a bear?

Or a liberal? Sorry, just had to throw that in there!

and I was camping in Wi this summer.....

Didn't see any bear, but did see a couple of mad squirrels...

and have ridden across Il several times this year..... not to say I was carrying or anything...

And totally forgot I had anything with me when the nice Utah Hiway Patrol office stopped to help me when I had a flat in the middle of nowhere Utah...

Hmmm... but the gun wasn't loaded, bullets were in a separate place.... that's not too smart, have to correct it next trip...

Oh yeah, since I is a puny little old lady that couldn't possibly defend herself from robbers or even wild animals, I need to carry a gun, especially since I camp a lot... That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Mary

Always easier to defend yourself in court than not have that option at all

 

[smitty141]

For any of you that own a Springfield XD, if you are ever looking to have any work done on the gun I cannot recommend Canyon Creek highly enough. Check out Canyoncreekcustom.com. Rich is not only a great guy, a Grand Master Class shooter, but does some of the best work on XD's I have ever seen.

Rich put a set of sights and a 3lb. trigger job on my XD-9 tactical. Great work, and fast turn around. I also am a fan of the Springfield XD. I carry the XD-9 sub compact. I also spent some time shooting Glock's and found the Springfield just fit "me" better. Smitty

 

[SilverStreak]

I know there are quite a few folks on here that are packin' and mouths start watering when the topic is guns. Looking for something decent under $400 (if such a thing exists). Cabella's has a selection of used guns, so, if I need to look more in the $400-$500 range (new), I might be able to find something gently used that would be in my price range. Just looking for something of decent quality to go plinking with that packs and field strips pretty easily. The wife will be shooting it, too, so, don't want something that will kick her ass with recoil.

If you are just plinking, target shooting, and small game hunting, you might be interested in the Hornet Custom COBRA Ruger 10/22 Rimfire Pistol. It will fire dime size groups at 50 yards and is far more accurate than most centerfire semi-auto pistols. Plus you can shoot a whole brick (500 rds) of ammo for less than $10.

The website is www.hornetproducts.com

Here is a typical picture of the firearm:

Product links:

https://www.hornetproducts.com/bin/category.asp?category=33