Harley-Davidson is going to discontinue Buell M/C line

[ShinyPartsUp]

Erik Buell is a class act, what an amazing fellow and that heartfelt talkwas really something.

In just that bit over two minutes I found in him all the glory and humanity the ancient Greeks gave their heros.

Hephaestus, please save this company.

Quite possibly because he is such a class act and a visionary of sorts, maybe, just maybe, somebody out there will lend a hand..

I personally don't think his story is over yet.

:jester:

There's a place somewhere for people like Buell, Vetter, Crocker, et al.

 

[FJRMGM]

I read in the Wall Street Journal today that H-D third quarter profits were down 82 percent....

No wonder they are shutting down some lines and looking to sell MV Augusta.

Too bad as Buell was the only H-D I would have ever been interested in purchasing.

 

[MotorToad]

What's DMG going do now that they have pissed everybody else off and the limb they were out on has been sawed off under them by HD. A little beggin to the others that left?

get laughed at. At least by me.

I'm bummed to lose Buell, I had high hopes for the 1125. I'd ridden both the 1200R and -S and liked everything about them except the engine.

As far as I can tell, the only people bothered by the B-Last ad are people that bought one. It's a horrid little bike and I like that they admitted it. Not everyone can sell Chevettes and Corvettes at the same time; it muddies the brand.

I know profits are down, but damn, half the business in the world are closing or getting bailed out. Allegedly we're at the end of the recession and I can't imagine pissing away the investments in the new 1125 and in MV Agusta could be anything other than plainly stupid.

 

[Cash]

I have owned 4 different Buells (a firebolt,2 Ulys and an 1125cr)and have loved each of them. Erik poured his heart into that company and im saddened by its closing. That said I think HD made a wise choice in closing buell for there sake only. As I read thru the 3rd quarter report it became very clear to me that HD is in some serious trouble!! HD's #1 goal is get thru this economic downturn and survive in order to do this I believe that that have to cut any and everything that is weighing them down. Buell and MV are 2 of those things. No company can survive long when profits are down 80% and HDFS has lost 110.8 million. Changes had to be made for the future of HD. I believe that in the next 2-3 years Erik will create a HD sportbike of some sort and use the Rotax as its base. Why else you you stay with a company that shut down your name sake. Theres more to this then we know right now but after the waters clear in the coming months and years I believe it will all make since.

 

[Gerry.GEG]

What in the world is Harley's board thinking. The only people you see who ride Harleys are a bunch old baby boomers like me (50 +). When HD bought Buell, then more recently MV I was encouraged. Maybe we'd finally see some innovation at Harley. Instead all we'll get is more retro styled paint shakers. Who is going to buy their antiquated product now? When was the last time you saw a twenty something on a Harley? Short sighted Harley...short sighted indeed.

Funny you mention innovation and Harley in the same breath. I agree that hope has faded for any there, the pirates will keep buying the same machines they always have. I thought the Vrod was interesting from the engine design perspective ie; Porsche designed water cooled engine. Then, I found out that most HD riders don't even consider this bike a "Real Harley". It would seem that HD seems to have some more good selling years in them due to the age group with more money than God. Once their gone, I believe the used HD market will flourish from those guys who are to old and broken down to be able to ride a Harley any more.

The young guys with an interest in HD's should start seeing the used bike fire sales in the next decade.

Too bad about Buell but like many, I really had no interest in them. I freely admit that I'm a Japanese bike guy. Reliability and ergos just fit my style.

 

[beemerdons]

https://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/20...1125CR-95054815 ATTENTION: Cash Brother, please tell me as much as you can, as quick as you can, about your 1125CR! When I posted this thread up yesterday, in the back of my mind was the thought that a lot of North America's Harley-Davidson dealerships were going to unload their Buell's as quick as they possibly can and as cheap as they can; just to get them off of their showroom floors. It has already started this morning!

 

[Fred W]

The real question, Don, is what is the bike actually worth now that it has been discontinued and the company has announced plans that Buell will be shut down? Perhaps what the dealer is asking is not such a fire sale price. It may be the thing's actual worth.

I really don't care what Harley does to try and stay afloat. Selling off less profitable pieces of the business is the easy way to go. If they continue they'll probably end up as a boutique tee shirt and leather jacket business as that is undoubtedly their most profitable line.

I personally don't care if they go under entirely either. Not because I'm a Harley hater, just because they don't do anything for me. There are about a dozen other bikes I'd look at before ever considering putting an HD in the garage. In fact if HD was the only brand of motorbike available, I'd probably still be into sports cars.

 

[beemerdons]

The real question, Don, is what is the bike actually worth now that it has been discontinued and the company has announced plans that Buell will be shut down? Perhaps what the dealer is asking is not such a fire sale price. It may be the thing's actual worth.


I really don't care what Harley does to try and stay afloat. Selling off less profitable pieces of the business is the easy way to go. If they continue they'll probably end up as a boutique tee shirt and leather jacket business as that is undoubtedly their most profitable line.

I personally don't care if they go under entirely either. Not because I'm a Harley hater, just because they don't do anything for me. There are about a dozen other bikes I'd look at before ever considering putting an HD in the garage. In fact if HD was the only brand of motorbike available, I'd probably still be into sports cars.

Fred W, as you know because we've had off FJR Forum conversations, I'm a BMW guy through and through; but if asked, I will gladly say that my 2003 FJR Miss Lucy Liu is the finest motorcycle that I have ever owned! What I don't talk about very often on the Forum, because it'll get my teeth royally bashed in, is that I'm also a Harley-Davidson guy through and through!

My 1st BMW was purchased in March of 1969 and my 1st H-D was bought in August 1970; continuous BMW & H-D ever since!

I've already sent e-mail off to Ocala Buell to see EXACTLY what their out the door price will be on this bike. I also printed their ad and will take it to Chandler Buell this AM to see if they will match the price. Otherwise, flying off to RadioHowieLand!

 

[Zorlac]

I just offered a dealer in PA $5000 OTD for a new XB12XT with some options, we'll see if he considers that a "reasonable offer". :lol:

 

[SockMonkey]

HD's strategy boiled down, compliments of Hell for Leather:

Cutting through the bullshit, it seems you can boil Harley's plan down to this: cut costs by streamlining production and lowering output, thereby alleviating dealers of stock they can't sell, then hope that the loans carry the company through to a projected return of middle-class solvency and credit availability.
All this sounds startlingly similar to the business practices that got Harley into so much trouble in the first place. It'll continue to rely on the same demographic buying the same motorcycles and, since a large proportion of those customers don't have enough money to buy either the bikes or the accessories, it'll continue to give loans to people that can't afford to repay them. It'll make those loans using money that it has, in turn, borrowed, often at a higher interest rate than what's being charged to customers. The company has presented no short-term plans to pursue the design of motorcycles with appeal outside its existing customer base and is therefore hoping the customers of other brands change their preference rather than finding new ways to appeal to new customers. As Boomers age beyond their riding years and see their purchasing power massively reduced by the end of cheap credit, Harley is failing to understand either the need or the means to reach a younger or wider audience. Relying on the market for motorcycles to return to its pre-recession levels without taking active steps to see it do so seems a remarkably naive way to do business. Harley is now effectively a passive passenger riding the economy's roller coaster. If the economy goes up, a lot, it might be OK. If the economy goes down or remains stagnant, it may find itself unable to repay that $1.9 billion and be forced to seek protection from its creditors.

Full article here: Harley Didn't Calculate Savings. Worth reading.

 

[beemerdons]

I just offered a dealer in PA $5000 OTD for a new XB12XT with some options, we'll see if he considers that a "reasonable offer". :lol:

Zorlac when you're kicking the tires with that PA dealer, please ask him for his best OTD price for a 1125cr for an AZ buddy!

 

[Zorlac]

I just offered a dealer in PA $5000 OTD for a new XB12XT with some options, we'll see if he considers that a "reasonable offer". :lol:

Zorlac when you're kicking the tires with that PA dealer, please ask him for his best OTD price for a 1125cr for an AZ buddy!

Don, maybe you'll have better luck with this than I did with a web offer on an XB12, maybe he's still sharpening his pencil? :glare: I guess they don't check their website often, but I'd even settle for a terse "no can do" email. :dribble:

I don't want to call them, cause that's when the haggling starts.

I just wanted to see if they were hungry and if they'd call me.

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

https://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/20...1125CR-95054815 ATTENTION: Cash Brother, please tell me as much as you can, as quick as you can, about your 1125CR! When I posted this thread up yesterday, in the back of my mind was the thought that a lot of North America's Harley-Davidson dealerships were going to unload their Buell's as quick as they possibly can and as cheap as they can; just to get them off of their showroom floors. It has already started this morning!

I heard about that ad on klrnet yesterday Don. Local word was they'd take @ $5500...

 

[wfooshee]

I think a problem with the motor company is that they simply don't know how to even talk to people who want a different kind of motorcycle. The dealer staff don't understand the people or the bikes. "Yeah, that Buell's a neat little bike, but if you wanna ride with guys that know what's up, your small bike will be a Sportster, or you won't fit in."

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

Full article here: Harley Didn't Calculate Savings. Worth reading.

from that same article:

""We will build off our unique expertise to develop relevant products that attract even more young adults, women and other new customers in to the Harley-Davidson brand. We will expand the brand through related products and services like Screaming Eagle performance parts or finding new ways to enhance the HOG experience and broaden it to more riders or creating apparel collections designed specifically for the needs and preferences of outreach segments."

Isn't that what the Buell line was supposed to do for HD? WTF?

Oh yeah,I can see a 20-something is dieing to spend 30 grand on an 850 pound lump with 103 horsepower. B)

 

[twistedcricket]

I rented a Ulysses a few years ago and had a great time with it. I would have considered purchasing one, but a) I would have had to go to a H-D dealer and B) the FJR is a far better touring platform.

if I had the money right now I'd still buy a Ulysses...but I don't.

EDIT: My favorite quote from the article SockMonkey posted:

We asked a former Wall Street banker with significant experience financing large motorcycle companies, what he thought of Harley's strategy. "'Leveraging the brand' is utterly ridiculous. People have the brand tattooed on their fucking flesh, how much more leveraged are you gonna get?" He then moves on to compare Harley to GM, saying, "Selling a division and shuttering another are two first steps, but GM could always sell Hummer, stop making Escalades and make more small fuel efficient cars and hybrids. What the **** is Harley going to do? Start making Hondas?"

 

[n1acguy]

The decision will result in a reduction over time of about 80 hourly production positions and about 100 salaried positions at Buell. Employment will end for a majority of Buell employees Dec. 18, 2009.

So they had 80 guys actually working and building the bikes and 100 people managing them.

Geeze, why was this a losing concern?

Through nine months, Harley-Davidson, Inc. reported net income of $163.6 million, down 71.6 percent and diluted earnings per share of $0.70, down 71.4 percent from the year-ago period.

Harley-Davidson, Inc. expects to incur approximately $125 million in one-time costs related to the discontinuation of the Buell product line. The Company expects to incur approximately $115 million of that amount this year.

So they only expect to net $217M but it's a good business decision to spend $115M in the next year to get rid of Buell? Sheesh...

If I were Erik Buell, I'd take my name and any technology I invented and own (that the motor company doesn't have rights to) and go find a different engine to put in my new bikes.

Erik Buell initially designed that chassis for the VR1000 motor. It was Harley's racing motor, but it had durability problems. Harley made so much money selling retro they didn't bother to sort it out. They didn't need to win races to sell bikes.

So the paint shaker Sportster motor, it was.

I wonder if Harley retains the rights for the chassis design.

 

[scubabiker]

I wonder if this will help Fischer. From the articles I've seen, they make a sweet, American made, reasonably priced bike. See https://www.fischer1.com/Fischer_motorcycles.htm

 

[beemerdons]

Zorlac, I got the same run-around from Ocala Buell, no response whatsoever to my request to buy one of the 4 1125CR's.

I even put in my e-mailed message to them: Pick me up at the local FL airport, I have got 60 $100 bills for you. No answer!

https://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.ph...2926&page=2 Shiny, I'm also a klrnet member so I went and checked it.

How did you get your "local word" on their willingness to accept $5,500? I would pursue this, if I knew more about situation!

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

Zorlac, I got the same run-around from Ocala Buell, no response whatsoever to my request to buy one of the 4 1125CR's.
I even put in my e-mailed message to them: Pick me up at the local FL airport, I have got 60 $100 bills for you. No answer!

https://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.ph...2926&page=2 Shiny, I'm also a klrnet member so I went and checked it.

How did you get your "local word" on their willingness to accept $5,500? I would pursue this, if I knew more about situation!

Sorry bro, read it somewhere from a local FL poster. I thought it was KLR.net. Maybe another site or link somewhere?

I travel the net a bit and wasn't that interested as I don't have the cash. If I knew you were looking I would have perked up more.

Obviously from your post above it was bull****, if they don't respond to 6K cash in hand.