HD unveils new engine

[MikeYork5]

Correct Skoot -

HD aren't the leaders, never claimed to be to my knowledge, and probably won't be a leader anytime soon, and Ski's point is? I'm thinking you don't have to necessarily be the leader in those areas to be the sales (profit) leader, or to sell your bikes. Strange what attracts people to something like a motorcycle. Cook Nielson did a great story on the new Super Glide in a recent issue of Cycle World, (wish I had it here) with a great quote (the quote was on the editorial page). Something along the lines of "they (HD) might not lead in technolocy but they lead in spirit - and that they have in excess" or something along those lines. There is a whole (large) segment of the motorcycle population who don't care about carving corners, draggin pegs, 1,000 mile days, 0-100 in 3.6 secs, or 10,000 rpm redlines, and/or having the latest and greatest in any walk of their lives, including their bike. They just want to get on their bike (in this case an HD) and cruise and enjoy the experience, their ride, their way - not yours. And, I guess there are a whole bunch of people that feel that way, 330,000 or so last year alone. For them, I guess its not about technology or engineering leadership (Marketing - I'm sure some of them) . So, to each their own, different strokes for differrent folks I guess. If we all wanted to run with the leaders, we'd be watching our Fujitsu Plasmas, sipping a good single malt, after a hard day of piloting the Porsche Carrera GT (or S2000, LS460, M6, SLR McLaren, etc.) home from our Yahoo office in Santa Clara.

 

[exskibum]

“doctors, lawyers…buying them.” That appears to be a waning fad for that group. More than 3 in 4 Harley-Davidson™ motorcycles are financed to the tune of about $15K per bike. Sportsters™ make up about a third of Harley-Davidson™’s sales so the high end bikes are really presenting the risk to The Motor Company™ as they are more highly leveraged in the HDFS portfolio, and most likely to default. Doctors and lawyers pay cash and they don't drive Sportsters™. Harley-Davidson™ Financial Services is also experiencing increasing lapse and default rates and expect more defaults as interest rates rise. Paired with declining used bike prices, yes Harley-Davidson ™’s always have and continue to go down in value, it is a risk The Motor Company™ must monitor. IMHO this group is probably responsible for the glut of used Harley-Davidson ™’s for sale with less than 1K miles on them after 3, 4 or 5 years of “ownership”.
All this aside, I like H-D™ from a value/income proposition (stable stock price and steady dividends.) They are just not going to be a high growth name (15% yoy price appreciation) again anytime soon IMHO.

I think I would like Harley-Davidson ™’s better if the owners would keep the mufflers on them. They can play dress up all they want and I really don’t care. It’s the constant drone on the freeway, the idiot at 1:00am turning the volume control to full blast trying to make it out of town, the constant revving at the stop light(or anytime they are stopped for that matter), revving them under bridges and tunnels, etc. that I think make them all look like fools and reflects poorly on the “flock”.

Oh, and by the way it's, "POTATO, POTATO" according to the legal division at Harley-Davidson ™.

Very interesting, as usual. I agree with your second to last paragraph, in particular. In Markleeville, a regular stop for rides (see e.g., WFO Big Dog ride) that is a small and quiet mountain town in a very rural setting, the din every weekend day is driving residents nuts since it penetrates virtually every residential street around the restaurants on the main drag where bikes congregate. In and around Auburn, CA, it's gotten so bad that residents have started petitioning the city council and board of supervisors to do something about it. I'm pretty sure that's about me and those folks not understanding -- even if the loudest of the HD riders were to explain it.

 

[DeadBank]

+1 "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand"

Mark

Strange what attracts people to something like a motorcycle. Cook Nielson did a great story on the new Super Glide in a recent issue of Cycle World, (wish I had it here) with a great quote (the quote was on the editorial page). Something along the lines of "they (HD) might not lead in technolocy but they lead in spirit - and that they have in excess" or something along those lines. There is a whole (large) segment of the motorcycle population who don't care about carving curves, , draggin pegs, 1,000 mile days, 0-100 in 3.6 secs, or 10,000 rpm redlines, and/or having the latest and greatest in any walk of their lives, including their bike. They just want to get on their bike (in this case an HD) and cruise and enjoy the experience, their ride, their way - not yours. And, I guess there are a whole bunch of people that feel that way, 330,000 or so last year alone. For them, I guess its not about technology or engineering leadership (Marketing - I'm sure some of them) . So, to each their own, different strokes for differrent folks I guess. If we all wanted to run with the leaders, we'd be watching our Fujitsu Plasmas, sipping a good single malt, after a hard day of piloting the Porsche Carrera GT (or S2000, LS460, M6, SLR McLaren, etc.) home from our Yahoo office in Santa Clara.

 

[PapaUtah]

The latest in flat screen technology Harley-Davidson™ style...

No...wait...more like this...

 

[Captain America]

As usual, you sport touring guy’s keep reinforcing your group arrogance and general nastiness. Having BEEN one of you in the past, I’m glad I left YOUR little group awhile back. FYI: The ST groups are the biggest arse-hats I’ve met on the road since becoming “one of them".

Don't bother waving, cause you will get stiffed by me.

 

[SkooterG]

Well..................welcome to the forum Captain America. Are you here to contribute? Or just insult all the locals?

Say what you will, but you don't see me going to other websites and insulting the natives.

So who's the arrogant, nasty, asshat?

 

[exskibum]

As usual, you sport touring guy’s keep reinforcing your group arrogance and general nastiness. Having BEEN one of you in the past, I’m glad I left YOUR little group awhile back. FYI: The ST groups are the biggest arse-hats I’ve met on the road since becoming “one of them".
Don't bother waving, cause you will get stiffed by me.

Thank you, captain. Excellent demonstration of what it is I dislike about HDs -- the surly asshat with the snarling attitude on the seat. The same self righteous asshole who feels the need to put loud pipes on his bike to draw attention to himself and annoy others -- it sure ain't for the horsepower. It's not all HD owners by a long shot, but thanks for coming by to pose as the paradigm example.

When was the last time you saw a ST rider check out a HD and tell the owner: "so, when are you going to get a real bike?" Or "when are you going to trade up to a Harley Davidson?" Yeah, thought so. Get stiffed by you waving? ROTFL!! Of course -- I get stiffed waving by HD riders at least 10 to 1 compared to riders of all other types of bikes put together. Part of what it took to join the club for you?? (Edit to add: to tell the truth, until you said that I only wondered if the rudeness was intentional, now I know. How fucked up is that? Someone gives you a gesture of friendliness and you respond with a "**** you"?!?)

Glad you're on the right bike now and flattered that you made a special visit here just to share that sparkling HD personality.

 

[JimV]

But you think it's NOT about HD marketing?!? "Thats almost too funny", you said. Huh??? Maybe you could point to some real innovation or performance leadership from the Motor Company? Even when they finally did introduce something that kinda went that direction with the V-Rod, they went outside -- wasn't that Porsche design?

Well, the big bikes do have that kickstand that won't fold up as long as weight is on it. Anyone who has been one step too far away from their FJR as it rolled off the sidestand can certainly appreciate that technical innovation. I've often wondered why no one else does that. Does H-D have a patent on kickstand locks?

Its not that the bike has no innovations its just that they stopped innovatiing years ago.

My friend has a Road King and loves it. That's good enough for me although I agree with those who object to the crazy loud pipes.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[evil_henchman]

You can't argue with HD's sales numbers. Marketing is the one thing they do better than anybody and they don't even have to do a lot of it, the damn things practically sell themselves. I can't tell you how many times I've heard idiotic comments like "there's nothing like American steel", etc. Grandpa used to say shit like that about his Allis Chalmers. All they have to do is stay in the 1940's and people line up to buy the symbol. As if owning a HD somehow makes you patriotic or something. My best friend was a HD nut since we were kids. He's owned and built dozens, still builds custom choppers and does general HD repairs. Keeps a custom Road King in the showroom but wouldn't ride it if it was the last bike on earth (his words). One too many times left stranded by the side if the road. He made the mistake of actually riding them a lot. It takes time but some people finally get the fact that there's a LOT of money to be made selling and fixing HD's but riding one will put you in the poor house (or worse) quick. He still can't give up the letter "H". All his stuff is Honda now! :lol:

I don't begrudge HD anything for selling bikes, hell I wish I had something that would be half as easy to sell. What I hate are the dirtbag assholes who keep me from being able to open my windows because of their loud assed HD's. As I've mentioned before, I live in biker trash hell just off of Rio Linda Blvd near Elverta. A straight piped HD is topping out in 2nd gear as they pass my street about every 2 minutes ALL F**KING DAY LONG EVERY F**KING DAY! Often in packs. Loud pipes save lives my ass, it's all I can do not to set traps and/or shoot the SOB's. I wish they'd all just explode and get it over with... :angry:

When was the last time you saw a ST rider check out a HD and tell the owner: "so, when are you going to get a real bike?" Or "when are you going to trade up to a Harley Davidson?" Yeah, thought s

Actually, to their credit, my experience has been HD riders either ignore me completely or they compliment me on my bitchin' looking BMW. I get the above comments from shit bags walking, on bicycles, or in beat up cages. Tweeker wannabe's.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

... you are probably a lot more likely to get laid riding a HD than what we're on. They are magnets for some women...

That hasn't been my experience.

 

[Groo]

As usual, you sport touring guy’s keep reinforcing your group arrogance and general nastiness. Having BEEN one of you in the past, I’m glad I left YOUR little group awhile back. FYI: The ST groups are the biggest arse-hats I’ve met on the road since becoming “one of them".
Don't bother waving, cause you will get stiffed by me.

 

[RoadGlide]

Correct Skoot - HD aren't the leaders, never claimed to be to my knowledge, and probably won't be a leader anytime soon, and Ski's point is? I'm thinking you don't have to necessarily be the leader in those areas to be the sales (profit) leader, or to sell your bikes. Strange what attracts people to something like a motorcycle. Cook Nielson did a great story on the new Super Glide in a recent issue of Cycle World, (wish I had it here) with a great quote (the quote was on the editorial page). Something along the lines of "they (HD) might not lead in technolocy but they lead in spirit - and that they have in excess" or something along those lines. There is a whole (large) segment of the motorcycle population who don't care about carving corners, draggin pegs, 1,000 mile days, 0-100 in 3.6 secs, or 10,000 rpm redlines, and/or having the latest and greatest in any walk of their lives, including their bike. They just want to get on their bike (in this case an HD) and cruise and enjoy the experience, their ride, their way - not yours. And, I guess there are a whole bunch of people that feel that way, 330,000 or so last year alone. For them, I guess its not about technology or engineering leadership (Marketing - I'm sure some of them) . So, to each their own, different strokes for differrent folks I guess. If we all wanted to run with the leaders, we'd be watching our Fujitsu Plasmas, sipping a good single malt, after a hard day of piloting the Porsche Carrera GT (or S2000, LS460, M6, SLR McLaren, etc.) home from our Yahoo office in Santa Clara.

Well said Mike! I ride both bikes (04 RoadGlide & 06 FJR). It just depends on where I'm going and how fast I want to get there. This weekend I did 1200 miles on the FJR and there were times I was actually wishing I was on the HD (while on the slab) but riding the mountains of VA and NC on the FJR was like being a kid again.

Wade

 

[Captain America]

Thank you, captain. Excellent demonstration of what it is I dislike about HDs -- the surly asshat with the snarling attitude on the seat. The same self righteous asshole who feels the need to put loud pipes on his bike to draw attention to himself and annoy others -- it sure ain't for the horsepower. It's not all HD owners by a long shot, but thanks for coming by to pose as the paradigm example.

Wrong again. I don't ride a H-D. Cruiser yes and it's a JAP bike bro. It's a liquid cooled V-4. YOU arse-hats group em all togather, don't ya. If it looks like a H-D it is......... Also, I don't wear a rag on my head, wear a leather vest OR run loud pipes either. Nice try Buckweat. :clapping:

Well..................welcome to the forum Captain America. Are you here to contribute? Or just insult all the locals?
Say what you will, but you don't see me going to other websites and insulting the natives.

So who's the arrogant, nasty, asshat?

I go to many bike forums. One of them is Labusa's. Even THEY have respect for H-D. Figure that one out Bucko. Arse-hats. :lol:

 

[Groo]

Thank you, captain. Excellent demonstration of what it is I dislike about HDs -- the surly asshat with the snarling attitude on the seat. The same self righteous asshole who feels the need to put loud pipes on his bike to draw attention to himself and annoy others -- it sure ain't for the horsepower. It's not all HD owners by a long shot, but thanks for coming by to pose as the paradigm example.

Wrong again. I don't ride a H-D. Cruiser yes and it's a JAP bike bro. It's a liquid cooled V-4. YOU arse-hats group em all togather, don't ya. If it looks like a H-D it is......... Also, I don't wear a rag on my head, wear a leather vest OR run loud pipes either. Nice try Buckweat. :clapping:

[SIZE=36pt]DON'T[/SIZE]

 

[SkooterG]

Groo, you fukin crack me up.

Ya know, as much as I hate to say it, I think the Cap'n is makin some valid points, in his own disfunctional way.

 

[Captain America]

 

[exskibum]

My best friend was a HD nut since we were kids. He's owned and built dozens, still builds custom choppers and does general HD repairs. Keeps a custom Road King in the showroom but wouldn't ride it if it was the last bike on earth (his words). One too many times left stranded by the side if the road. He made the mistake of actually riding them a lot. It takes time but some people finally get the fact that there's a LOT of money to be made selling and fixing HD's but riding one will put you in the poor house (or worse) quick.

Sounds a lot like what Sonny Barger said in an interview for an English mag several years ago. Wanna talk about someone bashing HD -- that'd be Mr. Barger, who should know and who made a lot of money fixing them. Said he'd be riding a Honda ST1100, BMW or Triumph if he wasn't in the club. Here it is:

https://www.bikerworld.co.uk/xBarger/index.html

When was the last time you saw a ST rider check out a HD and tell the owner: "so, when are you going to get a real bike?" Or "when are you going to trade up to a Harley Davidson?" Yeah, thought s

Actually, to their credit, my experience has been HD riders either ignore me completely or they compliment me on my bitchin' looking BMW. I get the above comments from shit bags walking, on bicycles, or in beat up cages. Tweeker wannabe's.

Actually, those comments and another similar one were made to me at a rally at a park here about a year ago when I was on my Blackbird, and at a bar over in Genoa toward the end of last summer when I was on my FJR. Not the first time I've heard it, though. Each time, it was an HD rider and I was one of very few Jap bike riders in a sea of Harleys. During that rally, I was admiring the blue Fat Boy being raffled off and even bought a ticket. The comment in Genoa about trading up was made by someone I think believed it, and even if it was condescending, the guy was mostly just trying to be friendly, a little awkwardly.

A Harley is like old trucks I've owned. I had a 58 Dodge truck and then a 56 Ford. The Ford was cool, classic kind of pretty in cinnamon metallic, had an old ambling truck feel, and I'd enjoy driving it once in a while if I owned it now. Easy to work on, too -- though I did too much of that when I had to drive it every day. Same with an HD -- I'd ride it occasionally for that old nostalgia trip to the hardware store and torquey twin feel, but it'd mostly sit hooked up to a battery tender, and they cost WAY too much for that. Maybe if I won one, but I'd probably sell it after it sat too long. I've ridden several, worked on several way back, know what they feel like, know a lot more about their engine, configurations for what years, etc. than some guess, know the seat of the pants feel like it has more power than it does -- I think I get it.** But I also get why most Harleys don't get a lot of miles put on them. For the last 30 years, I've preferred something with performance that is closer to a Ferrari, will take me the length of the state reliably on a moments notice, and get better gas mileage than an HD. Like my appreciation of guns because of their engineering and workmanship, my Kawasaki Z1 (yeah, I know: we laugh now, esp at that flexi-frame) was such a step up from the BSA and the HDs I'd been working on that I got weaned away.

It's HD owners like captain america (edit -- I stand corrected, he's got a V4 Jap bike) who give all the rest a bad name -- I have trouble imagining being so caught up in my ego and prejudices that I'd shun someone being friendly just because the other guy is on another kind of bike. And then there's a small group of utter morons who appear honestly to think that they have the performance edge. End of May, I had something like that go on when I was on my piped '03 XX -- you honestly want to race?!? Fucking dumbfounded -- I'm sporting close to 150 RWHP with the PCIII dialed in, running one tooth up in the rear and he's giving away 150 lbs. And *I* am the one who doesn't get it?!?!?!? Duuuude -- when was the last time you took a 600cc sport bike, and this ain't no 600cc bike.

**I got out of HS with and rode with Chico (Mike Salinas -- sorry to say I heard he passed a year and a half ago doing a stunt on a SoCal freeway), who ran Gary Bang's original aftermarket shop in Canoga Park. Among other knuckles, shovels and sportsters, I also rode Chico's gorgeous midnight pearl blue, magazine featured 80 inch '49 pan in a cradle frame. Chico was a little guy, and with what he'd done to the engine, Pete, Larry or I were always enlisted to kick start the thing for him whenever we were around -- saw it throw him halfway throught the bars once -- remember to retard the timing or else! I was once into loud straight pipes, and riding to parties drunk to pick up girls and never wearing a helmet, much less, gear -- back when I was young and stupid, back when I was a construction laborer, gas station attendant, factory worker, painter and drywall taper. I couldn't afford a HD, so I bought and chopped a Beezer. And then I bought Whitworth tools when I discovered that little bit of English B.S., and way too many zenor diodes, and . . . got lots of wrenching practice. If ever I did not get it -- it had to be in those days, and that included the loud pipes thing.

Yeah, I'm bored and procrastinating -- been waiting for two telephone calls all afternoon, so my apologies for all the typing.

 

[evil_henchman]

Wrong again. I don't ride a H-D. Cruiser yes and it's a JAP bike bro. It's a liquid cooled V-4. YOU arse-hats group em all togather, don't ya. If it looks like a H-D it is......... Also, I don't wear a rag on my head, wear a leather vest OR run loud pipes either. Nice try Buckweat.

It's a good thing you don't try to run loud pipes because metric bikes, particularly V-4's, sound completely retarded and obnoxious with loud pipes. You can hear the difference pretty easy after a while.

 

[Groo]

Dude, aren't you late for a Superfriends meeting or something????

 

[evil_henchman]

Dude, aren't you late for a Superfriends meeting or something????

I saw on TV that Stan Lee is holding tryouts for the next big superhero. You'd have to come up with something original tho...